Liverpool FC Forum

[taff]

Yeah agree

If we won and Baros scored the winner from a Hypia pass should we have all been chanting Houlliers name 

[115-1073096938]

As for Stu_the _Red - I can dislike Houlier and what he's done to Liverpool til the f*ckin cows come home - that's my choice - we're lucky we're not crippled in debt thanks to that man's complete and utter shambolic transfere dealings.
So go f*ck yourself.

for every bad signing there was two good ones.

[Storm]

Wiped

I can understand yer frustration but I think to move on we need to forget Houlier unless its just to reminisce.

[Redrider]

Cisse, looks like another handicap for Rafa to overcome !!

[Leonmc0708]

I firmly believe we are in for a topsy turvy season this year and maybe beyond due to the fact that Houlier has left an awful lot of sh!te players on our books. Yes Rafa has brought in 3 new players (Garcia and especially Alonso looking excellent - Nunez unknown as yet due to injury) but there is too many Houlier rejects around the place to properly gel into a winning team ... it's going to take time to get them out , and get Rafa's choices in ... only then will we see the real Rafa vision.

If you were the new LFC manager - would you like to be facing the uphill task of tryin to get the best out of Kewell , Dudek ,  Biscan , Daio etc. ......  Houlier you ******!n mess - hope you're happy - nonce.

You cant keep blaming GH for our failings, Next you will be saying it is all Greame Souness' fault.

Maybe you missed the start of your name out, should it read ar$e wiped ?

[banana]

I completely agree with Wiped. Benitez has inherited a poor squad and needs time to turn things around. So why can't we blame Houllier for our misery? Houllier has worked with these lads for 6 years so their level of fitness, technical abilities, tactical awareness etc. are strongly correlated with Houllier's capacity as a manager. With the exception of the spanish lads, the rest are Houllier signings or players Houllier inherited from Evans. I know that Benitez will make our lads better players, but he needs time. I know that Houllier's signings will be replaced, but this will also take time.

This is only common sense. Think of your car. If you sell the car to someone else then surely the condition of the car will be correlated with your ability as a driver and more generally the way you have treated the car. With time the new owner can make repairs, tune the engine, replace motor parts to enhance the performance etc. Pure and simple.

The conclusion is->> Houllier is still responsible for our misery. Only time, money and effort will help us out of the ****** we are in.

[Leonmc0708]

I completely agree with Wiped. Benitez has inherited a poor squad and needs time to turn things around. So why can't we blame Houllier for our misery? Houllier has worked with these lads for 6 years so their level of fitness, technical abilities, tactical awareness etc. are strongly correlated with Houllier's capacity as a manager. With the exception of the spanish lads, the rest are Houllier signings or players Houllier inherited from Evans. I know that Benitez will make our lads better players, but he needs time. I know that Houllier's signings will be replaced, but this will also take time.

This is only common sense. Think of your car. If you sell the car to someone else then surely the condition of the car will be correlated with your ability as a driver and more generally the way you have treated the car. With time the new owner can make repairs, tune the engine, replace motor parts to enhance the performance etc. Pure and simple.

The conclusion is->> Houllier is still responsible for our misery. Only time, money and effort will help us out of the ****** we are in.

Hi banana, long time no speak, nice to see you on here again.

However, the point is not that he inherited a crappy squad, its that the very same squad did finish seond and fourth in the last three years, so it is fundementally not "rotten to the core" as some people would have you belive.

Lest we forget GH did inherit the spice boys, and he did this club a big favour in the time he was here to irradicate the big time charlies who where eating up our season ticket money and not performing. The new Mellwood training complex is also largely down to him, and he gave Stevie G his chance.

Dont jump on my back, I just think it is time we stopped blaming GH for the predicament and started accepting that it will take time, but we are moving in the right direction.

[Storm]

Redrider

You are in danger of changing the thread and I've noticed you already have a Cisse topic posting!

[banana]

Hi Leon. I think I know what you and some other are trying to say. I agree with you that Houllier had his moments. Still I feel that he underachieved given the time and the financial resources available. Basically he tried to build a team with a solid defensive nucleus. Intentionally or not this made us defend deep and play counter attacking football. In the end we could not hold on to the ball at all, we were dead boring and even die hard liverpool supporters nearly fell asleep when Pool was on the telly. We finished 30 points behind Arsenal. Something had to be done.

My point is that we can not expect Benitez to turn Houllier's mess around in a couple of months. And ,yes, I do think Benitez has a tough job on his hands. Let's face it, no matter how long or how hard you polish a rock it will never shine like gold. Apply this logic to our squad and make your own judgement.

[who the hell is diarra]

Load of me ar*e leave GH alone
Some are saying things as if Houllier is rubbing his hands and going Mwwuuuuuuuuhhhaaaaaarrrhaarrrrrhaaaaarrrr  !! About Liverpools problems . GH was a good manager with his limitations , the club would not have stood by him for so long if he was an idiot . Several high profile transfer failiures were a millstone around his neck with Diouf esspecially so . His record was aboud 50/50 with every Hyypia offset with a Diao.

To blame him for liverpools downfall is ludicrous. It started well before Houllier. The root of the problem lays at Souness's  door in my book. He gutted the team and brought in inadequate replacements. Gary Mac was available and not approached. The failure to replace the creative heartbeat of the team caused by McManamanns loss also was a big step backwards. It remains to be seen how well we will cope with our next major loss Michael Owen, this will prove crucial to th efuture of LFC.

[wiped]

I completely agree with Wiped.

Thanks man .... felt I was being f*cked over there for a while .... some people need to remove the Red Blinkers every now and again ....

[wiped]

To blame him for liverpools downfall is ludicrous. It started well before Houllier. The root of the problem lays at Souness's  door in my book.

Leonmc0708 are you reading this .... and you called me an ar$e wipe for only looking back over the last 6 years

[wiped]

As for Stu_the _Red - I can dislike Houlier and what he's done to Liverpool til the f*ckin cows come home - that's my choice - we're lucky we're not crippled in debt thanks to that man's complete and utter shambolic transfere dealings.
So go f*ck yourself.

for every bad signing there was two good ones.

Jean-Michel Ferri: £1.7million from Istanbulspor - December 1998
Who? Exactly. Houllier brought this defensive midfielder to Anfield as his first signing. He picked up an injury shortly after his arrival from Turkey, but even when fit he looked well short of the required quality. The French international made only two substitute appearances, in defeats at Chelsea and Sheffield Wednesday, before being shipped to French side Sochaux in the summer.

Rigobert Song: £2.6million from Salernitana - January 1999
Song came to Anfield from Italy with a good reputation as a solid defender and was a fixture in the Cameroon side. He began well and became something of a cult hero on the Kop. But Houllier insisted in playing Song at right-back rather than in his favoured position in the centre of defence. Song played just 38 games for Liverpool before they almost recouped the transfer fee when he was sold to West Ham in November 2000. He was shocking for West Ham and is now in Ligue 1 with RC Lens.

Frodde Kippe: £700,000 from Lillestrom - January 1999
This Norwegian defender was heralded as a real star of the future when he moved to Liverpool - the Reds had pulled off a real coup in securing his services. Rather than being a Kippe, he was more of a red herring. He made just two substitute appearances for Liverpool in the League Cup before twice being loaned out to Stoke City. He left the club a year ago to return to Lillestrom for a nominal fee.

Djimi Traore: £550,000 from Laval - February 1999
This is an interesting one. Signed ahead of interest from AC Milan, Paris St Germain and Lazio, Liverpool can consider themselves to have got value for money on the transfer fee. Traore has been a fixture in the starting eleven this term after spending most of the 2001/02 campaign on loan at RC Lens. However, Traore looks anything but the real deal and Liverpool would be unlikely to win the championship with him in their defence. The French player has now made 59 appearances for the Reds.

Sami Hyypia: £2.6million from Willem II - May 1999
Hyypia will almost certainly go down as Houllier's best signing, a snip at £2.6m from Dutch side Willem II. A superb, assured defender and a commanding presence, the Finnish international would slot into probably any defence in the Premiership. Houllier handed him the club captaincy a year ago, and he has now played over 200 games for the Reds.



Stephane Henchoz: £3.5million from Blackburn - June 1999
Henchoz was rescued from life in the Football League by Houllier after Blackburn dropped out of the Premiership, and he soon forged a superb partnership at the heart of the defence with Hyypia. Henchoz has been worth every penny in his 174 games for the club - with the added extra of a few cheeky handballs when the officials aren't looking!

Sander Westerveld: £4million from Vitesse Arnhem - June 1999
Westerveld may have been Houllier's number one at Anfield for two seasons, but he was prone to errors - in keeping with the great tradition of Liverpool goalkeepers! Houllier made him the most expensive goalkeeper in British football when signing him from Holland, a tag he certainly failed to live up to. Although he certainly had ability, he came over-priced after the gaffe which led to defeat at Bolton in August 2001 was the final straw and he was sold to Real Soceidad.

Titi Camara: £2.6million from Marseille - June 1999
After a half decent first season at Anfield, in which he scored ten goals and only trailed Michael Owen in the club's scoring charts, Camara was discarded by Houllier after 18 months. West Ham again came to the rescue by giving Liverpool most of their money back, playing only 11 Premiership games for the Hammers before being loaned out to Al-Ittihad in January.

Vladimir Smicer: £4.2million from RC Lens - July 1999
An incredible fee for a player of such limited ability, Houllier had hardly found the replacement for Steve McManaman. But Smicer remains a manager's favourite and is invariably in the 16 on a matchday. Smicer has many critics on the terraces, but he still earned a new three-year contract last summer and now, remarkably, has played 142 games for the club.

Erik Meijer: Free from Bayer Leverkusen - July 1999
Liverpool fans can only be pleased this misfit striker didn't cost any money, because he was a complete failure in his 17-month spell at Anfield. The Dutch player scored just two League Cup goals in a total of 26 appearances before being loaned out to Preston North End, where he scored no goals in nine games, and then released to join German side SV Hamburg.

Dietmar Hamann: £8million from Newcastle - July 1999
The final signing of a £25million summer transfer frenzy for Houllier, Hamann has been a valuable player since making the move from Tyneside. But at £8million, then a club record, the German international was probably over-priced for a defensive midfielder.



Emile Heskey: £11million from Leicester - March 2000
At the time this transfer was the worst kept secret in English football. After netting 22 goal in his first full season at the club, Heskey has struggled. A fee of £11m for a striker who doesn't score goals is excessive to say the least, although the player has suffered from being played out wide at times. The England international has scored just six Premiership goals this season.

Bernard Diomede: £3million from Auxerre - July 2000
Another mystery name with a big price tag, Diomede has a World Cup winners' medal from France '98, you know. But he is now back home with relegation candidates AC Ajaccio after being loaned out in January. The French winger has played just five games for Liverpool, only two of those in the Premiership.

Markus Babbel: Free from Bayern Munich - July 2000
Houllier was very unlucky with Babbel. The German veteran had a fine first season at Anfield, but was then sidelined after developing Guillan-Barre Syndrome. This affects the central nervous system and means you are unable to use your limbs properly. He did make an emotional return in the Community Shield in August but is yet to play this year.

Gary McAllister: Free from Coventry City - July 2000
McAllister was a superb Bosman capture by Houllier. Although used as a substitute for much of the time, his goals were priceless as Reds picked up five trophies in 2001. The lure of the manager's job at Coventry proved too strong last year, and Liverpool have failed to replace his experience and guile in the centre of the park.

Pegguy Arphexad: Free from Leicester City - July 2000
Signed as a back-up keeper and, despite a brief loan spell with Stockport County, first team football continues to elude him.

Nick Barmby: £6million from Everton - July 2000
Barmby's move across Stanley Park caused a storm at the time, but his two years at Anfield were barely worth the bother. After a useful first season a combination of injuries and Houllier's selection policy limited his involvement and last summer he joined Leeds United, at almost a third of the cost.



Gregory Vignal: £500,000 from Montpellier - September 2000
Despite getting a few first team games under his belt over the course of the last two years and looking a useful player, Houllier cast him aside at the beginning of the season. Vignal is now out on loan in France with Bastia.

Christian Ziege: £5.5million from Middlesbrough - September 2000
For all the trouble this caused, Ziege was effectively a waste money. The two clubs are still arguing about the way in which Liverpool went about luring the player to Anfield. Ziege started just 11 Premiership games before being sold to Spurs after just one season.

Daniel Sjolund: £1million from West Ham - November 2000
The Finland Under-21 international was signed as a player for the future but has failed to make the grade, and is now on loan at Djurgarden until the end of the season.

Igor Biscan: £5.5million from Dinamo Zagreb - December 2000
How much! Biscan must be one of the worst players ever to turn out for a club of Liverpool's stature; in fact he would struggle to make a impression in the First Division. Houllier paid a ludicrous amount of money for the Croatian defender/midfielder. Biscan has made 23 Premiership appearances in almost two-and-a-half years.

Jari Litmanen: Free from Barcelona - January 2001
Criminally underused by Houllier, Litmanen could have contributed so much more to a Liverpool side that has often looked short of a creative influence. The Finnish striker returned to former club Ajax after making only 12 Premiership starts.

John Arne Riise: £4.6million from Monaco - June 2001
Leeds United must wish they had stumped up the cash for the player when they had the chance a year earlier, as Riise has taken to the Premiership with great aplomb. A pacy, skilful wing-back or midfielder, Riise has lived up to his price tag in a big way. He was strangely underused at the start of the season but is now a firm fixture in the side.



Milan Baros: £3million from Banik Ostrava - August 2001
It could prove to be an astute piece of business by Houllier, although he lost a whole year as the old rules on non-EU players meant he couldn't get into the first team squad. Looks a lively player and should develop into a top striker, given time.

Jerzy Dudek: £4.85million from Feyenoord - August 2001
Signed to replace Sander Westerveld, Dudek had a brilliant first season, but started this term badly and was to blame for a number of goals - most notably the opener in a 2-1 defeat to arch rivals Manchester United. He is only back in the side due to Chris Kirkland's injury but looks to be getting back to his best.

Chris Kirkland: £6million from Coventry - August 2001
After paying such a lot of money for a back-up goalkeeper, Kirkland was handed his chance due to Dudek's inept performances. However, a cruciate ligament injury sustained at the start of the year put him out of action. Houllier spent nearly £11million on two goalkeepers on the same day - completely unnecessary and it was almost as if he was trying to stop any of his rivals signing Kirkland.

Nicolas Anelka: On loan from Paris Saint Germain - December 2001
Eyebrows were raised when Houllier opted to against making his loan move permanent, and Anelka himself was far from happy. The French striker was never prolific during his six-month stay, but it was thought he'd done enough after netting five goals. Instead, Houllier turn to El Hadji Diouf.

Abel Xavier: £800,000 from Everton - February 2002
Again a transfer that surprised many, but a good start was the limit of his contribution to the side. Xavier played just 21 games for Liverpool before being loaned to Galatasaray in January. It's hard to see him returning to Liverpool to battle for a place in the team - more money wasted.

El Hadji Diouf: £10million from RC Lens - June 2002
Houllier signed the Senegal striker at the start of the World Cup, and although he would go on to be named in FIFA's team of the tournament he has looked a poor acquisition. The striker has scored only three Premiership goals in 24 appearances for the club, although he has been played out wide at times. He has a lot to do to justify the fee.



Bruno Cheyrou: £3.7million from Lille - July 2002
Cheyrou has been very inconspicuous since his summer move, featuring in 25 games this term. He looks as though he may benefit from a year in the Premiership and come back stronger in the new campaign. The jury is very much still out and the price tag looks a little large right now.

Alou Diarra: Free from Bayern Munich - July 2002
Diarra was loaned out to Le Havre almost as soon he'd joined Liverpool, and as such remains an unknown quantity in the English game.

Patrice Luzi: Free from Monaco - August 2002
A young goalkeeper signed for the future who has yet to feature - currently fourth in the pecking order at the club.

Salif Diao: £5million from Sedan - August 2002
Again, Houllier has broken the bank for a player of limited ability. Although he did start his Anfield career promisingly, he has tailed off in the latter part of the season and looks to be out of his depth at this level.

[wiped]

Do the math Stu_The_Red

[LFC #1]

Hi banana, long time no speak, nice to see you on here again.

However, the point is not that he inherited a crappy squad, its that the very same squad did finish seond and fourth in the last three years, so it is fundementally not "rotten to the core" as some people would have you belive.

Lest we forget GH did inherit the spice boys, and he did this club a big favour in the time he was here to irradicate the big time charlies who where eating up our season ticket money and not performing. The new Mellwood training complex is also largely down to him, and he gave Stevie G his chance.

Dont jump on my back, I just think it is time we stopped blaming GH for the predicament and started accepting that it will take time, but we are moving in the right direction.

agree with all you have said there Leon, very well summed up.