Liverpool FC Forum

[leothelion]

DALGLISH WHILE I AM ALSO VERY p#ssed OFF WITH OUR MANAGER AT PRESENT AND HAVE BEEN FOR A WHILE I WILL STILL AGREE WITH YOU ON ONE FACT
THAT IS THAT HE SHOULD BE GIVEN A BIT OF COURTESY AS A MANAGER FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THIS CLUB
HE TRIED I ADMIRE THAT BUT I THINK IT IS TIME FOR HIM TO ACCEPT THAT ITS NOT WORKING AND SAVE WHAT RESPECT HE HAS LEFT
IF HE WAITS ANOTHER YEAR HE WILL BE KNOWN AS THE MAN WHO RUINED LFC IF HE HANGS UP HIS BOOTS NOW HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO STAY AT THE CLUB AND SAVE A BIT OF DIGNITY

[Dalglish]

At last !!!!!!!! A little balance from someone in here on the subject of Gerard Houllier, I think your spot on mate and i thank you for taking the time to do what so many others in here DON'T do and that is articulate what you want to say instead of resorting to cheap shots and petty digs at GH. I happen to agree with yourself on the situation and think it is time GH considerd his position.

[Dalglish]

FOR BIG AL !!!! Big Al,.......... i don't know who told you we "lost Rooney to Everton" but whoever did has, as per usual with these stories got it wrong. Rooney was "9" when he was at  a skills school run by LFC , he turned up in his Everton kit, stayed for one session and never came back, even in these crazy days of Football , clubs aren't allowed to secure the services of players that young anyway. Its a MTYH that rooney was ever going to sign for LFC, its a myth the Evertontonians like to propogate to console themselves about losing Owen, McManaamn and fowler (ALL BLUESS FANS) to Liverpool. Yey Houllier even gets blamed on the basis of myths these days !!!!!!

As for Gh , I have met the man personally and found him to be polite and IMO humble in his approach . it was the night before the Worthington Cup win against the Mancs last year and as i'm sure you will remember we were on a shocking run (Worse than the one at the moment might I add) and the mancs were flying...I asked him if he thought liverpool could or would win, he replied "you know Liverpool, we always try our best" , now the cynics amoungst us would say well he had to say that but I chose to believe him and still do............... I suspect he won't be at LFC by the end of the seaon and in truth his performance this last 18 months makes that deserved if he does go. I'm not blind to what i see in terms of tactics and performances on the pitch and we have at times this season been awful (Wolves Away was particularly poor as for the 2nd half you could argue we fielded our strongest 11 and defending a 1-0 lead which we contrived to blow !!!


Walk on ...

[SCOUSER9]

Dalglish - I totally agree with you on the GH issues.
I also suspect he won't be at LFC by the end of the season, but I know for a fact in two years time fans will be looking at the honours list and saying that was a great year in 2001.all those trophies in one season and then fans will look at the manager who took us there and will have a completely different view of him.
How can people call him a joke or a clown?
I put this view across to them- if you were told that when Roy Evans was in charge that a French manager would come in and win almost everything in four years but at the end of it. Had a bad season and he might have to leave because of it, they would have bitten their hands off for GH.
LFC owe a lot to GH, respect him not hate him....

What a night that was A? Eve of the cup final.

[Red]

Big Al, Dagliesh etc.

Im just happy to read an intelligent and insightful (since I live in melbourne aus and dont have the front seat you do) thread.

Thanks

[big al]

Dalglish
Firstly I have always praised Houlier for what he achieved he give us back our pride and wiped the smiles of many a Manc face.  We should not forget that.

But the fact remains that in the last two years he has made error after error.  He won three trophies with half a team that Roy Evans had left him so we cannot negate Evans role.  The last two years has been purely Houliers team this is the squad he said would take him five years to assemble.  He promised great things and I actually believe he was genuine at that time.


I am trying to remove an emotive perspective here so forgive if I go back into Subjective language.

Two years ago I saw what was coming because I watched him make tactical errors.  The more cleaver and capable managers were able to adapt their systems to counter Houlier, and he in return had no adequate response.  A good example would be this years Arsenal game.

For 55 minutes we played them off the pitch, it was like watching Brasil.  Smicer got injured and Wenger puhed his mid field further up the pitch.  Liverpool suddenly were penned back in their own halve.  Thier was no outlet for the defenders Pires got the winner.  We lost a game that Houlier have obviously given some prior thought to.  Houlier has a good modicum of ability, the problem is that he has no adaptablity.  Thats why we are so low in the league he can't think on his feet.

We win games were Houlier sets out a plan and were the plan goes accordingly.  At chelsea for instance he set out a defensive plan and hoped for a goal on the break, thats exactly what happened.  Houliers is as good as any manager at setting out an initial formation and tactic.  He downfall is when they change it he can't react.  He tends to make rash and foolhardy substitutions.  Alex ferguson is in many ways very similar the difference has always been that Fergie has had vastly superior players who play beyond he mistakes except that is in the recent Wolves game were he messed up in second halve substitions.

Therefore I am not attacking Houlier in the absence of evidence, but don't take my word for it watch the Newcastle game.  Houlier is playing the tactical chess game here against a grand master.  If Robson doesent adapt his style once he see's how Houlier intends to play, Liverpool will win If he does, even with inferrior players he might turn us over.
Thats why I think Houlier should go he's not good enough forwhat is one of the top clubs in the world.  My frustration is that the decision makers can't see what I see.

As for Rooney he had the option of Liverpool when he was at secondary school and your right he did'nt have to sign but the Liverpool scouts impressed upon Houlier the need to woo the kid which Houlier felt to be not required he thought Rooney would come running to Liverpool he as you said did'nt consider emotions and personal loyalty. My point was that Fergie did when it came to Ryan Giggs. Fergie poached him from under ManC nose by being a bloody liar.

You may have well met Houlier and he may have been charming but I personally have spoken to two ex-reserve teams players who hate his guts. Yeah ok he released them so you've got to get behind that s##t first but I believe these guys and the stuff they told me although unsubstantiate makes me think the school teacher is not as nice as he pretends to be.  He calls his team boys for goodness sake. Their all hairy arsed men.

[redandblue]

Liverpool's success is measured in terms of our ability to compete for league titles and to do well in the CL. I for one would trade the two Worthington Cups, the FA Cup (when we got outclassed by Arsenal), and the UEFA Cup (which is for teams who are not good enough for the CL).....all of those trophies for the opportunity to be up there with the likes of Arsenal and United. Even if we weren't winning titles. it would be nice to be at least close.

Well, we are not even remotely close. United and Arsenal have better players, better tactics, better results, better performances, better trophies. And better managers.

At any other club, like Spurs, or Villa or Newcastle, this haul of trophies would indeed be considered a success. But this is Anfield we are talking about.

Listen mate, I was at the Spurs match last week. The home fans were actually laughing at us, chanting.........''can we play you every week''.

[Owzat]

True enough. We are third behind manure and Arsenal in terms of league points in recent years, but have not come close to winning the Premiership. Even when we finished 2nd with 80 points it wasn't a close run thing. A big club like us should be top three minimum and winning the league, if only once every 2-5 years. Cups should be a bonus not our only source of trophies. As you say, only smaller clubs see smaller trophies as an achievement.

I don't recall Newcastle winning any trophy in the time I've been supporting Liverpool

[JBG]

I dont think Newcastle have won a cup competition since the Fairs Cup in 1970 (I might be wrong about the year but its a long time back).

[Cool Hand Luke]

2. Whilst you have control, team mates should constantly move to create options for player on the ball.  Always provide more than one option, move to step 3


I have noticed that this is a major problem with our play, Players are not moving off the ball in order to create space or move into space, it is a simple part of football but were not doing it. MOVEMENT please boys.

[Owzat]

Newcastle are quite an oddity, they set their stall to get into the Champions League but don't seem at all concerned that they have won sod all. I'm not sure how many of the top 17 teams in the Premiership last season have gone longer without winning a domestic trophy, might be interesting to find out.

2003 Arsenal (FA Cup), Liverpool (Worthington Cup), Man Utd (Premiership)
2002 Blackburn (Worthington Cup)
1999 Leicester (Worthington Cup)
1998 Chelsea (Worthington Cup)
1995 Everton (FA Cup)
1994 Aston Villa (Coca-Cola Cup)
1992 Leeds Utd (1st Division)

Left : Southampton, Middlesboro, Newcastle, Bolton, Birmingham, Tottenham, Fulham, Charlton

(Sorry chaps, run out of time. Maybe later)

[JBG]

Chelsea won the FA Cup in 2000 wasn't it?

Do you consider the First Division Championship (or other Nationwide divisions for that point)?

Boro won it in 1994 (I think?) but have not won a major trophy unless you count the Anglo Scottish cup.

[Owzat]

Last Time Premiership Clubs Won A Major Domestic Trophy

(League Championship, FA Cup, League Cup)

2003 Arsenal (FA Cup), Liverpool (League Cup), Man Utd (League Championship)
2002 Blackburn Rovers (League Cup)
2000 Leicester City (League Cup), Chelsea (FA Cup)
1999 Tottenham (League Cup)
1996 Aston Villa (League Cup)
1995 Everton (FA Cup)
1992 Leeds Utd (League Championship)
1980 Wolves (League Cup)
1976 Man City (League Cup), Southampton (FA Cup)
1963 Birmingham City (League Cup)
1958 Bolton Wanderers (FA Cup)
1955 Newcastle Utd (FA Cup)
1950 Portsmouth (League Championship)
1947 Charlton Athletic (FA Cup)

N/A Middlesborough, Fulham

Apologies if any of the above stats are incorrect, I could not find details of some clubs without extensive research.