Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

Not good enough and very probably never ever will be, by all means put him out to loan though, see if anything happens. I would much rather see Pachecho or one of the other youngsters given a chance, why doesn't Rafa ever do this, that is one of the things that most irritates me with Rafa is inflexibility.

Inflexibility? What has that got to do with it? Just because Rafa rates Ngog (FWIW I don't) and you would rather see Pacheco (based on a bit of pre-season promise which it's worth adding, was also shown by Ngog).

You would prefer to see one of the other youngsters given a chance? Triffic timing that lad.........or did i just imagine seeing Kelly, Spearing and Darby playing in last nights game?

I know you get a bit of a hard time on here from some posters but it's hardly surprising when you make ridiculous comments like this one.

no not having that, in the match thread I commented that it was good to see the youngsters get a chance but when we are struggling to get goals and with Eggnog so far not providing anything apart form the goal yesterday I still think we could try some of the youngsters in attack. Give them a  go and if they aren't good enough they can be subbed.
Why is Rafa trying to fit Eggnog into the team when it is obvious the guy is not ready?

[Fo Dne]

Has an awful lot of development to do at this level. The potential is there I think but I spent most of the game frustrated at his ineffectiveness. He was pretty anonymous but all credit to the lad for the way he took his goal. It was an excellent finish.

Excellent finish? It went straight under the goalkeeper lad, he closed his eyes and smacked it straight at the keeper and he jumped over it. He's rubbish. He couldn't even look average against an average side.

Disgrace of a player.

[LegBarnes]

Has an awful lot of development to do at this level. The potential is there I think but I spent most of the game frustrated at his ineffectiveness. He was pretty anonymous but all credit to the lad for the way he took his goal. It was an excellent finish.

Excellent finish? It went straight under the goalkeeper lad, he closed his eyes and smacked it straight at the keeper and he jumped over it. He's rubbish. He couldn't even look average against an average side.

Disgrace of a player.

you are like an old ladie that had there husband leave them bitter and twisted so funny Stu. 

Ring any bells

[JoeTerp]

Has an awful lot of development to do at this level. The potential is there I think but I spent most of the game frustrated at his ineffectiveness. He was pretty anonymous but all credit to the lad for the way he took his goal. It was an excellent finish.

Excellent finish? It went straight under the goalkeeper lad, he closed his eyes and smacked it straight at the keeper and he jumped over it. He's rubbish. He couldn't even look average against an average side.

Disgrace of a player.

Torres has finished similar chances under the keepers legs on several occasions, and I think PSV's goal went under Reina's legs. Seems like the 5 hole is a pretty good shooting spot to me.


And by the way, N'Gog is younger than Nemeth, Darby, and Spearing.

[Fo Dne]

Has an awful lot of development to do at this level. The potential is there I think but I spent most of the game frustrated at his ineffectiveness. He was pretty anonymous but all credit to the lad for the way he took his goal. It was an excellent finish.

Excellent finish? It went straight under the goalkeeper lad, he closed his eyes and smacked it straight at the keeper and he jumped over it. He's rubbish. He couldn't even look average against an average side.

Disgrace of a player.

Torres has finished similar chances under the keepers legs on several occasions, and I think PSV's goal went under Reina's legs. Seems like the 5 hole is a pretty good shooting spot to me.


And by the way, N'Gog is younger than Nemeth, Darby, and Spearing.

And? I don't care how old the lad is, he's not good enough.

Anyone who thinks he is hasn't got a clue. The lad wouldn't even get into a Sunday league team.

[Rush Job]

Stu to be fare theres not one of these players you say couldnt play sunday league that we couldnt sell to another prem side.
Why are you so quick to completely right off young players in such harsh ways? We have a few now that might well not make it with us, thats par for the coarse but to claim (and you do quite a bit) that they shouldn't be in the game at any level is nonsense, for a start they all play for their respective countrys at various age levels and some have already played full internationals so its hardly as if they dont have a future in the game, wether its with us is another matter but I think (not you) some dont fully appreciate how hard it is to bring though youngsters when every game is a must win and fans want instant super stars rather than a player still learning how to play at the highest level in the best league.

[tubby]

I think the fact that he scored a goal is making people thing that maybe he has some talent but I think he was just in the right place at the right time. If he scores a few more this season though then who knows.....

[Espionage]

TBH I watched all of our pre-season games bar one (first one) and watched Ngog play many times. He scored goals, and had a few tricks to get his shot open. I have been very surprised with the stick that he gets from commentators when he comes one:

"This N-GOG fella, dont know what he's good at but one should question why he's on the pitch and not Keane..."

It made me sick when whoever it was commentator said when Ngog came on as a sub against West Ham. Not only did he play better then Keane in pre-season but Keane had showed very little from 60+ minutes in many previous games when left unsubstituted.

This does not help anyone, (especially the player) and some sheep fans jump on his back because of it. Of course after the game people walk away with a scapegoat just because of what was said, gimme a break. Where were they during pre-season when he was playing well? When I watched him in his first couple of games i will be honest and say that I thought he was going to be a hit. This would be the first mistake I have made since Morientes, and I do not make many.

I am telling you, this guy had touch on the ball and a sweet shot. Just because pundits say they cant see it (even though they admit that they have not seen him play/dont know his strengths) does not make them an authority on the subject.


Ill leave you with a quote from one of my older brother's rap songs:

"....to be worth your salt in this wicked world in which we live,
you have to anticipate and positive before it begins..."


Give the guy some time, even if you don't, Rafa will.

[Fo Dne]

Stu to be fare theres not one of these players you say couldnt play sunday league that we couldnt sell to another prem side.
Why are you so quick to completely right off young players in such harsh ways? We have a few now that might well not make it with us, thats par for the coarse but to claim (and you do quite a bit) that they shouldn't be in the game at any level is nonsense, for a start they all play for their respective countrys at various age levels and some have already played full internationals so its hardly as if they dont have a future in the game, wether its with us is another matter but I think (not you) some dont fully appreciate how hard it is to bring though youngsters when every game is a must win and fans want instant super stars rather than a player still learning how to play at the highest level in the best league.

Maybe not mate and that shows the problems within the game at this level these days and the lack of knowledge in the sport.

People don't clearly understand and understand the game clearly. The facts are, if you take a very good Sunday or Saturday league player and played him in a professional match in the premier league, baring fitness (assuming thats not a strong point) they wouldn't completely embarress themselves. I'm not saying here they'd stand out or look good but the chances are if they have a good game they'll more than likely just look like a run of the mill player. Its the same with premier league players, if you put them on a Sunday league pitch. They don't all of a sudden become the best dribblers, passers and everything else on the pitch. They still play the same way and do the same things and have the same Ideas. IE Alonso wouldn't all of a sudden become really fast and a great dribbler who'll beat twenty men on his own and smash on in from the edge of the box. His strengths and weaknesses will still be the same.

The reason I "write off young players" that are not good enough is exactly that. They aren't good enough.

So whats the point in keeping them? Or even more so whats the point in signing them?

Come 15, 16 you can see whether they are good enough in technical and some tactical aspects, obviously physically it can sometimes take till about 20 years old and mentallity can sometimes mature into the early twenties but in general they are already pretty much set as a player.

If at 15, 16, 17, you can't do the basics you'll never be able to. Simple as that. A player who can't shoot from 20 yards at 16 will never be able to hit a ball like Steven Gerrard.

Rafa finds and seems to think he can make them into diamonds just because they are big and black. I'm sorry, but not every big black player who's physically good will become Vieira or Henry. This stupid obsession that managers have with it is becoming quite annoying.

The two that reallyb me off.... is £14,000,000 spent on Lucas and Dossena, plus massive wages and signing on fees. The £4,000,000 recouped for Guthrie and Warnock who are both far far far better players. How our manager can't see this is beyond me.

Sissoko being an example of you can't turn something into something they aren't... how many times was I told when he learns to pass he'll be world class and I was judging him to quickly and I was clueless for saying it? Nearly everyone said that to me, yet look now, he's been sold. Alright, he's doing well at Juventus, but he's still not a world class player and still has the same weaknesses.

Again with Baros, I said after the Euro's to cash in, everyone slaughtered me saying how when he learns to get his head up he'll be world class. Did he ever learn? No, do you think these players don't know there weaknesses and try and correct them? Do you think the best coaches in the game don't know them and don't try and help them correct them? You're mistaken if you think that. I never saw anything from Baros in that championship I hadn't seen in a red shirt apart from consistency in form and confidence, he didn't show any extra ability. He didn't start doing all these wonderful turns, become a better finisher and become a faster runner.

I'm not one for excuses. Obviously poor form can effect players, but poor form is that, its not a lack of ability. Great players off form always show something. Keane the other night for example played two sublime through balls despite lacking in confidence they shown his vision and technique.

I don't buy the excuse either that when a player moves abroad they need six months to adapt to the extent some people take it. Granted the systems are different and tactical play but to sit there and say these players lose ability in that period is just wrong. How can a player forget to control a ball just because he's moved to another country or because he can't speak the language? It was like with Kuyt the other year, he can't control a ball because his dad died... Please... I'm really sorry to hear his dad died, but don't tell me that effects his ability to trap a football. Maybe it might effect his concentration once in a while, but not for 90 minutes and doing the same stupid things.

It winds me up big time. Spearings better than Lucas, Darby's better than Degen and half of Liverpool is better than Ngog.

Then theres Warnock and Guthrie... 

[heimdall]

TBH I watched all of our pre-season games bar one (first one) and watched Ngog play many times. He scored goals, and had a few tricks to get his shot open. I have been very surprised with the stick that he gets from commentators when he comes one:

"This N-GOG fella, dont know what he's good at but one should question why he's on the pitch and not Keane..."

It made me sick when whoever it was commentator said when Ngog came on as a sub against West Ham. Not only did he play better then Keane in pre-season but Keane had showed very little from 60+ minutes in many previous games when left unsubstituted.

This does not help anyone, (especially the player) and some sheep fans jump on his back because of it. Of course after the game people walk away with a scapegoat just because of what was said, gimme a break. Where were they during pre-season when he was playing well? When I watched him in his first couple of games i will be honest and say that I thought he was going to be a hit. This would be the first mistake I have made since Morientes, and I do not make many.

I am telling you, this guy had touch on the ball and a sweet shot. Just because pundits say they cant see it (even though they admit that they have not seen him play/dont know his strengths) does not make them an authority on the subject.


Ill leave you with a quote from one of my older brother's rap songs:

"....to be worth your salt in this wicked world in which we live,
you have to anticipate and positive before it begins..."


Give the guy some time, even if you don't, Rafa will.

When I watched the first few games I thought he was cr@p, when I watched the last few games I still think he's sh1t.

Can't be arsed to explain why, but something to do with no drive, no ability to control the ball, no real shot etc etc, he just isn't good enough.

So is your brother a famous rapper or something?

[heimdall]

Stu to be fare theres not one of these players you say couldnt play sunday league that we couldnt sell to another prem side.
Why are you so quick to completely right off young players in such harsh ways? We have a few now that might well not make it with us, thats par for the coarse but to claim (and you do quite a bit) that they shouldn't be in the game at any level is nonsense, for a start they all play for their respective countrys at various age levels and some have already played full internationals so its hardly as if they dont have a future in the game, wether its with us is another matter but I think (not you) some dont fully appreciate how hard it is to bring though youngsters when every game is a must win and fans want instant super stars rather than a player still learning how to play at the highest level in the best league.

Maybe not mate and that shows the problems within the game at this level these days and the lack of knowledge in the sport.

People don't clearly understand and understand the game clearly. The facts are, if you take a very good Sunday or Saturday league player and played him in a professional match in the premier league, baring fitness (assuming thats not a strong point) they wouldn't completely embarress themselves. I'm not saying here they'd stand out or look good but the chances are if they have a good game they'll more than likely just look like a run of the mill player. Its the same with premier league players, if you put them on a Sunday league pitch. They don't all of a sudden become the best dribblers, passers and everything else on the pitch. They still play the same way and do the same things and have the same Ideas. IE Alonso wouldn't all of a sudden become really fast and a great dribbler who'll beat twenty men on his own and smash on in from the edge of the box. His strengths and weaknesses will still be the same.

The reason I "write off young players" that are not good enough is exactly that. They aren't good enough.

So whats the point in keeping them? Or even more so whats the point in signing them?

Come 15, 16 you can see whether they are good enough in technical and some tactical aspects, obviously physically it can sometimes take till about 20 years old and mentallity can sometimes mature into the early twenties but in general they are already pretty much set as a player.

If at 15, 16, 17, you can't do the basics you'll never be able to. Simple as that. A player who can't shoot from 20 yards at 16 will never be able to hit a ball like Steven Gerrard.

Rafa finds and seems to think he can make them into diamonds just because they are big and black. I'm sorry, but not every big black player who's physically good will become Vieira or Henry. This stupid obsession that managers have with it is becoming quite annoying.

The two that reallyb me off.... is £14,000,000 spent on Lucas and Dossena, plus massive wages and signing on fees. The £4,000,000 recouped for Guthrie and Warnock who are both far far far better players. How our manager can't see this is beyond me.

Sissoko being an example of you can't turn something into something they aren't... how many times was I told when he learns to pass he'll be world class and I was judging him to quickly and I was clueless for saying it? Nearly everyone said that to me, yet look now, he's been sold. Alright, he's doing well at Juventus, but he's still not a world class player and still has the same weaknesses.

Again with Baros, I said after the Euro's to cash in, everyone slaughtered me saying how when he learns to get his head up he'll be world class. Did he ever learn? No, do you think these players don't know there weaknesses and try and correct them? Do you think the best coaches in the game don't know them and don't try and help them correct them? You're mistaken if you think that. I never saw anything from Baros in that championship I hadn't seen in a red shirt apart from consistency in form and confidence, he didn't show any extra ability. He didn't start doing all these wonderful turns, become a better finisher and become a faster runner.

I'm not one for excuses. Obviously poor form can effect players, but poor form is that, its not a lack of ability. Great players off form always show something. Keane the other night for example played two sublime through balls despite lacking in confidence they shown his vision and technique.

I don't buy the excuse either that when a player moves abroad they need six months to adapt to the extent some people take it. Granted the systems are different and tactical play but to sit there and say these players lose ability in that period is just wrong. How can a player forget to control a ball just because he's moved to another country or because he can't speak the language? It was like with Kuyt the other year, he can't control a ball because his dad died... Please... I'm really sorry to hear his dad died, but don't tell me that effects his ability to trap a football. Maybe it might effect his concentration once in a while, but not for 90 minutes and doing the same stupid things.

It winds me up big time. Spearings better than Lucas, Darby's better than Degen and half of Liverpool is better than Ngog.

Then theres Warnock and Guthrie... 

Totally agree with you on this Stu, Rafa is not good at spotting up and coming talent, and the purchase of Eggnog was bizarre to say the least.

[Lando_Griffin]

Stu to be fare theres not one of these players you say couldnt play sunday league that we couldnt sell to another prem side.
Why are you so quick to completely right off young players in such harsh ways? We have a few now that might well not make it with us, thats par for the coarse but to claim (and you do quite a bit) that they shouldn't be in the game at any level is nonsense, for a start they all play for their respective countrys at various age levels and some have already played full internationals so its hardly as if they dont have a future in the game, wether its with us is another matter but I think (not you) some dont fully appreciate how hard it is to bring though youngsters when every game is a must win and fans want instant super stars rather than a player still learning how to play at the highest level in the best league.

Maybe not mate and that shows the problems within the game at this level these days and the lack of knowledge in the sport.

People don't clearly understand and understand the game clearly. The facts are, if you take a very good Sunday or Saturday league player and played him in a professional match in the premier league, baring fitness (assuming thats not a strong point) they wouldn't completely embarress themselves. I'm not saying here they'd stand out or look good but the chances are if they have a good game they'll more than likely just look like a run of the mill player. Its the same with premier league players, if you put them on a Sunday league pitch. They don't all of a sudden become the best dribblers, passers and everything else on the pitch. They still play the same way and do the same things and have the same Ideas. IE Alonso wouldn't all of a sudden become really fast and a great dribbler who'll beat twenty men on his own and smash on in from the edge of the box. His strengths and weaknesses will still be the same.

The reason I "write off young players" that are not good enough is exactly that. They aren't good enough.

So whats the point in keeping them? Or even more so whats the point in signing them?

Come 15, 16 you can see whether they are good enough in technical and some tactical aspects, obviously physically it can sometimes take till about 20 years old and mentallity can sometimes mature into the early twenties but in general they are already pretty much set as a player.

If at 15, 16, 17, you can't do the basics you'll never be able to. Simple as that. A player who can't shoot from 20 yards at 16 will never be able to hit a ball like Steven Gerrard.

Rafa finds and seems to think he can make them into diamonds just because they are big and black. I'm sorry, but not every big black player who's physically good will become Vieira or Henry. This stupid obsession that managers have with it is becoming quite annoying.

The two that reallyb me off.... is £14,000,000 spent on Lucas and Dossena, plus massive wages and signing on fees. The £4,000,000 recouped for Guthrie and Warnock who are both far far far better players. How our manager can't see this is beyond me.

Sissoko being an example of you can't turn something into something they aren't... how many times was I told when he learns to pass he'll be world class and I was judging him to quickly and I was clueless for saying it? Nearly everyone said that to me, yet look now, he's been sold. Alright, he's doing well at Juventus, but he's still not a world class player and still has the same weaknesses.

Again with Baros, I said after the Euro's to cash in, everyone slaughtered me saying how when he learns to get his head up he'll be world class. Did he ever learn? No, do you think these players don't know there weaknesses and try and correct them? Do you think the best coaches in the game don't know them and don't try and help them correct them? You're mistaken if you think that. I never saw anything from Baros in that championship I hadn't seen in a red shirt apart from consistency in form and confidence, he didn't show any extra ability. He didn't start doing all these wonderful turns, become a better finisher and become a faster runner.

I'm not one for excuses. Obviously poor form can effect players, but poor form is that, its not a lack of ability. Great players off form always show something. Keane the other night for example played two sublime through balls despite lacking in confidence they shown his vision and technique.

I don't buy the excuse either that when a player moves abroad they need six months to adapt to the extent some people take it. Granted the systems are different and tactical play but to sit there and say these players lose ability in that period is just wrong. How can a player forget to control a ball just because he's moved to another country or because he can't speak the language? It was like with Kuyt the other year, he can't control a ball because his dad died... Please... I'm really sorry to hear his dad died, but don't tell me that effects his ability to trap a football. Maybe it might effect his concentration once in a while, but not for 90 minutes and doing the same stupid things.

It winds me up big time. Spearings better than Lucas, Darby's better than Degen and half of Liverpool is better than Ngog.

Then theres Warnock and Guthrie... 

Totally agree with you on this Stu, Rafa is not good at spotting up and coming talent, and the purchase of Eggnog was bizarre to say the least.

Sadly, your show of support has just destroyed any credibility Stu's post may or may not have had. Kiss of Death, and all that.

Oh well...

The simple fact is this:

A sh*t player does not stick the ball past a Champions' League team's 'keeper with the ease Ngog did yesterday. It was a composed, clinical finish.

But then - players often do that...

[Fo Dne]

Stu to be fare theres not one of these players you say couldnt play sunday league that we couldnt sell to another prem side.
Why are you so quick to completely right off young players in such harsh ways? We have a few now that might well not make it with us, thats par for the coarse but to claim (and you do quite a bit) that they shouldn't be in the game at any level is nonsense, for a start they all play for their respective countrys at various age levels and some have already played full internationals so its hardly as if they dont have a future in the game, wether its with us is another matter but I think (not you) some dont fully appreciate how hard it is to bring though youngsters when every game is a must win and fans want instant super stars rather than a player still learning how to play at the highest level in the best league.

Maybe not mate and that shows the problems within the game at this level these days and the lack of knowledge in the sport.

People don't clearly understand and understand the game clearly. The facts are, if you take a very good Sunday or Saturday league player and played him in a professional match in the premier league, baring fitness (assuming thats not a strong point) they wouldn't completely embarress themselves. I'm not saying here they'd stand out or look good but the chances are if they have a good game they'll more than likely just look like a run of the mill player. Its the same with premier league players, if you put them on a Sunday league pitch. They don't all of a sudden become the best dribblers, passers and everything else on the pitch. They still play the same way and do the same things and have the same Ideas. IE Alonso wouldn't all of a sudden become really fast and a great dribbler who'll beat twenty men on his own and smash on in from the edge of the box. His strengths and weaknesses will still be the same.

The reason I "write off young players" that are not good enough is exactly that. They aren't good enough.

So whats the point in keeping them? Or even more so whats the point in signing them?

Come 15, 16 you can see whether they are good enough in technical and some tactical aspects, obviously physically it can sometimes take till about 20 years old and mentallity can sometimes mature into the early twenties but in general they are already pretty much set as a player.

If at 15, 16, 17, you can't do the basics you'll never be able to. Simple as that. A player who can't shoot from 20 yards at 16 will never be able to hit a ball like Steven Gerrard.

Rafa finds and seems to think he can make them into diamonds just because they are big and black. I'm sorry, but not every big black player who's physically good will become Vieira or Henry. This stupid obsession that managers have with it is becoming quite annoying.

The two that reallyb me off.... is £14,000,000 spent on Lucas and Dossena, plus massive wages and signing on fees. The £4,000,000 recouped for Guthrie and Warnock who are both far far far better players. How our manager can't see this is beyond me.

Sissoko being an example of you can't turn something into something they aren't... how many times was I told when he learns to pass he'll be world class and I was judging him to quickly and I was clueless for saying it? Nearly everyone said that to me, yet look now, he's been sold. Alright, he's doing well at Juventus, but he's still not a world class player and still has the same weaknesses.

Again with Baros, I said after the Euro's to cash in, everyone slaughtered me saying how when he learns to get his head up he'll be world class. Did he ever learn? No, do you think these players don't know there weaknesses and try and correct them? Do you think the best coaches in the game don't know them and don't try and help them correct them? You're mistaken if you think that. I never saw anything from Baros in that championship I hadn't seen in a red shirt apart from consistency in form and confidence, he didn't show any extra ability. He didn't start doing all these wonderful turns, become a better finisher and become a faster runner.

I'm not one for excuses. Obviously poor form can effect players, but poor form is that, its not a lack of ability. Great players off form always show something. Keane the other night for example played two sublime through balls despite lacking in confidence they shown his vision and technique.

I don't buy the excuse either that when a player moves abroad they need six months to adapt to the extent some people take it. Granted the systems are different and tactical play but to sit there and say these players lose ability in that period is just wrong. How can a player forget to control a ball just because he's moved to another country or because he can't speak the language? It was like with Kuyt the other year, he can't control a ball because his dad died... Please... I'm really sorry to hear his dad died, but don't tell me that effects his ability to trap a football. Maybe it might effect his concentration once in a while, but not for 90 minutes and doing the same stupid things.

It winds me up big time. Spearings better than Lucas, Darby's better than Degen and half of Liverpool is better than Ngog.

Then theres Warnock and Guthrie... 

Totally agree with you on this Stu, Rafa is not good at spotting up and coming talent, and the purchase of Eggnog was bizarre to say the least.

Sadly, your show of support has just destroyed any credibility Stu's post may or may not have had. Kiss of Death, and all that.

Oh well...

The simple fact is this:

A sh*t player does not stick the ball past a Champions' League team's 'keeper with the ease Ngog did yesterday. It was a composed, clinical finish.

But then - players often do that...

Here we go more Rafa licking...

Ngog is poo. He can't control a ball and to say that was a good finish is naive. It was an average finish at best by a poor player.

PSV are as bad a team as we'll play this season and he struggled like mad to influence the game in anyway shape or form till someone put it on a plate for him and the PSV defence went walkies.

Also, its a FACT-the path of the ball went through the keeper. It didn't hit the side netting or test the keepers quality, the goalkeeper went over the ball. That is poor goalkeeping. End of!

[Kharhaz]

When I watched the first few games I thought he was cr@p, when I watched the last few games I still think he's sh1t.

Can't be arsed to explain why, but something to do with no drive, no ability to control the ball, no real shot etc etc, he just isn't good enough.

So is your brother a famous rapper or something?

When I read your first few posts, I thought the same.

When I read your last few posts, I still think the same.

Like you I cant be bothered to explain why. No perfect reasoning, nothing that makes me think "oh he has a point" nothing.

Very similar in so many ways.

[Rush Job]

Stu to be fare theres not one of these players you say couldnt play sunday league that we couldnt sell to another prem side.
Why are you so quick to completely right off young players in such harsh ways? We have a few now that might well not make it with us, thats par for the coarse but to claim (and you do quite a bit) that they shouldn't be in the game at any level is nonsense, for a start they all play for their respective countrys at various age levels and some have already played full internationals so its hardly as if they dont have a future in the game, wether its with us is another matter but I think (not you) some dont fully appreciate how hard it is to bring though youngsters when every game is a must win and fans want instant super stars rather than a player still learning how to play at the highest level in the best league.

Maybe not mate and that shows the problems within the game at this level these days and the lack of knowledge in the sport.

People don't clearly understand and understand the game clearly. The facts are, if you take a very good Sunday or Saturday league player and played him in a professional match in the premier league, baring fitness (assuming thats not a strong point) they wouldn't completely embarress themselves. I'm not saying here they'd stand out or look good but the chances are if they have a good game they'll more than likely just look like a run of the mill player. Its the same with premier league players, if you put them on a Sunday league pitch. They don't all of a sudden become the best dribblers, passers and everything else on the pitch. They still play the same way and do the same things and have the same Ideas. IE Alonso wouldn't all of a sudden become really fast and a great dribbler who'll beat twenty men on his own and smash on in from the edge of the box. His strengths and weaknesses will still be the same.

The reason I "write off young players" that are not good enough is exactly that. They aren't good enough.

So whats the point in keeping them? Or even more so whats the point in signing them?

Come 15, 16 you can see whether they are good enough in technical and some tactical aspects, obviously physically it can sometimes take till about 20 years old and mentallity can sometimes mature into the early twenties but in general they are already pretty much set as a player.

If at 15, 16, 17, you can't do the basics you'll never be able to. Simple as that. A player who can't shoot from 20 yards at 16 will never be able to hit a ball like Steven Gerrard.

Rafa finds and seems to think he can make them into diamonds just because they are big and black. I'm sorry, but not every big black player who's physically good will become Vieira or Henry. This stupid obsession that managers have with it is becoming quite annoying.

The two that reallyb me off.... is £14,000,000 spent on Lucas and Dossena, plus massive wages and signing on fees. The £4,000,000 recouped for Guthrie and Warnock who are both far far far better players. How our manager can't see this is beyond me.

Sissoko being an example of you can't turn something into something they aren't... how many times was I told when he learns to pass he'll be world class and I was judging him to quickly and I was clueless for saying it? Nearly everyone said that to me, yet look now, he's been sold. Alright, he's doing well at Juventus, but he's still not a world class player and still has the same weaknesses.

Again with Baros, I said after the Euro's to cash in, everyone slaughtered me saying how when he learns to get his head up he'll be world class. Did he ever learn? No, do you think these players don't know there weaknesses and try and correct them? Do you think the best coaches in the game don't know them and don't try and help them correct them? You're mistaken if you think that. I never saw anything from Baros in that championship I hadn't seen in a red shirt apart from consistency in form and confidence, he didn't show any extra ability. He didn't start doing all these wonderful turns, become a better finisher and become a faster runner.

I'm not one for excuses. Obviously poor form can effect players, but poor form is that, its not a lack of ability. Great players off form always show something. Keane the other night for example played two sublime through balls despite lacking in confidence they shown his vision and technique.

I don't buy the excuse either that when a player moves abroad they need six months to adapt to the extent some people take it. Granted the systems are different and tactical play but to sit there and say these players lose ability in that period is just wrong. How can a player forget to control a ball just because he's moved to another country or because he can't speak the language? It was like with Kuyt the other year, he can't control a ball because his dad died... Please... I'm really sorry to hear his dad died, but don't tell me that effects his ability to trap a football. Maybe it might effect his concentration once in a while, but not for 90 minutes and doing the same stupid things.

It winds me up big time. Spearings better than Lucas, Darby's better than Degen and half of Liverpool is better than Ngog.

Then theres Warnock and Guthrie... 

Bloody hell. All I was saying is to make out players like N gogg, Babel and Lucas should have no future in the game and arent good enough to play sunday league is complete nonsense, if there that bad why are they worth millions of pounds? Why do they play for their countries and win honours?
The question is are they going to be good enough for us and if not how much will Hansworth town give us for them.