STEVEN GERRARD - Official Thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:28 am

ConnO'var » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:35 am wrote:RBG.... Cheers mate....
Been tied up with work and the family has since relocated to Singapore as we are winding down the project here in Qatar so been a bit swamped. II'll be joining them soon for the next assignment... but till then, I'm a temporary single.

On the Gerrard issue, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Yes he is not the player he once was and playing as a box to box midfielder is no longer a viable option nor is it feasible to expect the same kind of output playing behind the strikers.

But he still has tonnes to offer and i for one think that he still has more than enough in his locker to make the new role BR envisages for him a reality.
I don't quite agree with all the stats showing lucas loses possession less readily than Gerrard. Gerrard loses possesion trying to acheive something going forward instead of lateral or bacwards passing in  attempt to retain possession. In other words he is trying to make things happen.

Its complicated and I'm struggling how to put this into words.  (This new editor non scrolling thing is a pain... I'm trying to type blind!)

I am just saying that the standards that Gerrard has set over his career may have been his own worse enemy. Now that he is not at the peak of his prowess, there is a perception thathe is no longer any good, where the truth of the matter is that he is still an outstanding midfielder... just no longer a world class one.

you know what I mean?


Gerrard has been an outstanding player for us, in my humble opinion the best that has ever pulled on a red shirt, but the modern game in this country is as much about mobility and athleticism as it is about ability on the ball.
Certain players blessed with really good positional sense (for example Xabi Alonso) can get by without being the second coming of Daley Thompson but gerrards problem is that in his prime he was an athlete so he never had to hone his positional skills, his legs always got him there in time.
In his pomp gerrard was probably the quickest CM I've ever seen, I've even seen him run down Christiano Ronaldo in a sprint but these days whenever he's trying to catch someone he chugs and wheezes behind them like an old diesel.
Gerrards lack of positional sense is hurting our pressing game, yes he is excellent on the ball but this isn't 2006, back then if gerrard didn't create something then no one would, but these days we have the likes of Suarez, sturridge, coutinho and sterling to make something happen.
A recent article in the echo mentioned that our strike force has just equalled the much vaunted Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge 87/88 side's club record for goals scored in the first half of a season, it also said that you had to go back to Dixie dean to find a strike rate similar to the one Suarez has weighed in with between august and January.
These days we need different things from our midfield, we don't need them to put chances on a plate for our forwards anymore, we just need them to build a solid platform from which our forwards can work from.
we need them to screen and protect the back 4, put the opposition under pressure when they have the ball and we need to win the ball back high up the pitch.
The team has evolved and if gerrard doesn't evolve his game to suit he's going to end up like Andy Carroll - a square peg for a round hole.
Btw good to see you posting again mate, your posts are always thoughtful and well put together.
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 12483
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:54 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby Stu the Red » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:38 am

Double post.
Last edited by Stu the Red on Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
Stu the Red
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Postby Stu the Red » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:39 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:28 am wrote:
ConnO'var » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:35 am wrote:RBG.... Cheers mate....
Been tied up with work and the family has since relocated to Singapore as we are winding down the project here in Qatar so been a bit swamped. II'll be joining them soon for the next assignment... but till then, I'm a temporary single.

On the Gerrard issue, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Yes he is not the player he once was and playing as a box to box midfielder is no longer a viable option nor is it feasible to expect the same kind of output playing behind the strikers.

But he still has tonnes to offer and i for one think that he still has more than enough in his locker to make the new role BR envisages for him a reality.
I don't quite agree with all the stats showing lucas loses possession less readily than Gerrard. Gerrard loses possesion trying to acheive something going forward instead of lateral or bacwards passing in  attempt to retain possession. In other words he is trying to make things happen.

Its complicated and I'm struggling how to put this into words.  (This new editor non scrolling thing is a pain... I'm trying to type blind!)

I am just saying that the standards that Gerrard has set over his career may have been his own worse enemy. Now that he is not at the peak of his prowess, there is a perception thathe is no longer any good, where the truth of the matter is that he is still an outstanding midfielder... just no longer a world class one.

you know what I mean?


Gerrard has been an outstanding player for us, in my humble opinion the best that has ever pulled on a red shirt, but the modern game in this country is as much about mobility and athleticism as it is about ability on the ball.
Certain players blessed with really good positional sense (for example Xabi Alonso) can get by without being the second coming of Daley Thompson but gerrards problem is that in his prime he was an athlete so he never had to hone his positional skills, his legs always got him there in time.
In his pomp gerrard was probably the quickest CM I've ever seen, I've even seen him run down Christiano Ronaldo in a sprint but these days whenever he's trying to catch someone he chugs and wheezes behind them like an old diesel.
Gerrards lack of positional sense is hurting our pressing game, yes he is excellent on the ball but this isn't 2006, back then if gerrard didn't create something then no one would, but these days we have the likes of Suarez, sturridge, coutinho and sterling to make something happen.
A recent article in the echo mentioned that our strike force has just equalled the much vaunted Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge 87/88 side's club record for goals scored in the first half of a season, it also said that you had to go back to Dixie dean to find a strike rate similar to the one Suarez has weighed in with between august and January.
These days we need different things from our midfield, we don't need them to put chances on a plate for our forwards anymore, we just need them to build a solid platform from which our forwards can work from.
we need them to screen and protect the back 4, put the opposition under pressure when they have the ball and we need to win the ball back high up the pitch.
The team has evolved and if gerrard doesn't evolve his game to suit he's going to end up like Andy Carroll - a square peg for a round hole.
Btw good to see you posting again mate, your posts are always thoughtful and well put together.


Disagree... I always thought ConnO'var was a bit of a tw*t. :D

On a seriously note, I think the usual Gerrard bashers are again going over the top. Against Stoke I didn't think he played badly at all, infact, statistically he won more tackles than Lucas does in any average game and generally I thought he got stuck in. Played some sloppy passes forward when he could have done a Lucas (standing between one centre half and passing it to the other)... but generally thought he was solid enough.

He's no longer capable of the dynamic box to box displays, we all know that, but by the same token, anyone suggesting he's finished and should be shipped out is talking bollox. As for people suggesting Lucas should be played ahead of him, sorry. Not for me.

On the point you make about him "not needing to create" etc etc... disagree with that Yakka. Good players want to play with good players. You need players all over the pitch with the quality to pick a pass from the back, right though to the front.

As a player, there aren't many things more frustrating than making a good run of being the obvious choice or pass and someone sh*ts out and passes it square, or backwards.
Stu the Red
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Postby ConnO'var » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:24 pm

Thanks Stu.... I've missed you too!
:D

I think the game yesterday has revealed the limits for Gerrard. There is no way we should be playing him in a 4-2-4 formation. He cannot cope in that particular system. Even when he was at the peak of his game with either Mascherano or Alonso at his side, he would not have been able to cope. Now that he has lost more a couple of yards, it was an even more preposterous idea by BR.
Image
Image
User avatar
ConnO'var
 
Posts: 3643
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:30 pm

Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:44 pm

That first half performance was indescribably abject ,and what hurts most is that for a midfielder who has played for this club for so long and prides
himself on his understanding of the game it just looked nothing more than a disinterested canter around. Surely the fans deserve better than this
even if the role is not to his liking ...... I mean this is supposedly a midfielder who according to some can adapt to defence or playing on the wing ffs
and yet he couldn't afford the fans who hold him in such high esteem the courtesy of giving it his best shot ...........Last straw for me ,and the fans
inside Anfield wont be kidded for much longer ......

Disgraceful effort ,and we need a new captain post haste ,because the Gerrard I seen yesterday couldn't keep his socks up let alone the spirit of this team.
Image
User avatar
RED BEERGOGGLES
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 8297
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:03 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby supersub » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:04 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:44 pm wrote:That first half performance was indescribably abject ,and what hurts most is that for a midfielder who has played for this club for so long and prides
himself on his understanding of the game it just looked nothing more than a disinterested canter around. Surely the fans deserve better than this
even if the role is not to his liking ...... I mean this is supposedly a midfielder who according to some can adapt to defence or playing on the wing ffs
and yet he couldn't afford the fans who hold him in such high esteem the courtesy of giving it his best shot ...........Last straw for me ,and the fans
inside Anfield wont be kidded for much longer ......

Disgraceful effort ,and we need a new captain post haste ,because the Gerrard I seen yesterday couldn't keep his socks up let alone the spirit of this team.



The writing was on the wall in the warm up session before the game....Gerrard looked totally dis-interested and unfit.......shame on BR , forcing a Liverpool legend to play in a position that is obviously way beyond his ability.... we will not achieve 4th if Steven Gerrard plays in the starting 11 every week.....
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW SHINING AT THE END OF EVERY DAY.
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
User avatar
supersub
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 7290
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: knackers yard

Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:38 pm

supersub » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:04 pm wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:44 pm wrote:That first half performance was indescribably abject ,and what hurts most is that for a midfielder who has played for this club for so long and prides
himself on his understanding of the game it just looked nothing more than a disinterested canter around. Surely the fans deserve better than this
even if the role is not to his liking ...... I mean this is supposedly a midfielder who according to some can adapt to defence or playing on the wing ffs
and yet he couldn't afford the fans who hold him in such high esteem the courtesy of giving it his best shot ...........Last straw for me ,and the fans
inside Anfield wont be kidded for much longer ......

Disgraceful effort ,and we need a new captain post haste ,because the Gerrard I seen yesterday couldn't keep his socks up let alone the spirit of this team.



The writing was on the wall in the warm up session before the game....Gerrard looked totally dis-interested and unfit.......shame on BR , forcing a Liverpool legend to play in a position that is obviously way beyond his ability.... we will not achieve 4th if Steven Gerrard plays in the starting 11 every week.....


I thought that too ,he looked like a right miserable fucker and his head was patently anywhere but the game  ...Maybe the penny will finally drop with other fans now ,other than the ones unfortunate enough to see how little he affords this team week in and week out .... .I wont be holding my breath waiting
for it though.
Image
User avatar
RED BEERGOGGLES
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 8297
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:03 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby maypaxvobiscum » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:42 pm

He needs replacing as he's becoming a massive liability It should have been him, not Coutinho who was replaced, hence I'm unsure if BR would have the balls to drop him to begin with. And now with Lucas injured, we HAVE to buy a new defensive midfielder.
User avatar
maypaxvobiscum
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:02 am
Location: Singapore

Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:06 pm

maypaxvobiscum » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:42 pm wrote:He needs replacing as he's becoming a massive liability It should have been him, not Coutinho who was replaced, hence I'm unsure if BR would have the balls to drop him to begin with. And now with Lucas injured, we HAVE to buy a new defensive midfielder.


I'm not sure we will sign a DM, tomorrow is the 20th and the window shuts at the end of the month, plus i don't even think we've been looking at DM's as Rodgers has been in the echo all week waxing lyrical about gerrard and talking about how he can become our pirlo and play that holding role in front of the back 4 until he's 40.
I think Rodgers thought we were sorted in midfield, the fact that we are nearing the end of the window and we haven't been seriously linked with any midfielders maybe gives that theory a bit of credence too.
Lucas's injury (out 6 weeks I think) and gerrards poor form has caught us on the hop, that transfer cabal of ours had better get a shift on now though. Panic buy coming up methinks
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 12483
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:54 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby 7_Kewell » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:20 pm

Gerrard is not a defensive midfielder, never has been and never will. However, I thought he looked ok once we changed our shape and played the ball that set up Suarez for the penalty.
“You cannot transfer the heart and soul of Liverpool Football Club, although I am sure there are many clubs who would like to buy it.”
User avatar
7_Kewell
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 13671
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:04 pm
Location: Here, there, everywhere

Postby maypaxvobiscum » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:38 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:06 pm wrote:
maypaxvobiscum » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:42 pm wrote:He needs replacing as he's becoming a massive liability It should have been him, not Coutinho who was replaced, hence I'm unsure if BR would have the balls to drop him to begin with. And now with Lucas injured, we HAVE to buy a new defensive midfielder.


I'm not sure we will sign a DM, tomorrow is the 20th and the window shuts at the end of the month, plus i don't even think we've been looking at DM's as Rodgers has been in the echo all week waxing lyrical about gerrard and talking about how he can become our pirlo and play that holding role in front of the back 4 until he's 40.
I think Rodgers thought we were sorted in midfield, the fact that we are nearing the end of the window and we haven't been seriously linked with any midfielders maybe gives that theory a bit of credence too.
Lucas's injury (out 6 weeks I think) and gerrards poor form has caught us on the hop, that transfer cabal of ours had better get a shift on now though. Panic buy coming up methinks

There's a massive difference between Pirlo and Gerrard - footballing intelligence. The latter has none. He's the type of player that will burst through the midfield and score, or come up with a screamer. He's not someone whose capable of dictating the tempo of the game. Hopefully BR realizes how stupid the idea is.

We need M'Villa.
User avatar
maypaxvobiscum
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:02 am
Location: Singapore

Postby jacdaniel » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:12 pm

I know its only a minor issue but was anyone else p.issed off that Gerrard took the free kick the other day in the FA cup?  It was in a perfect position for Suarez to hit it and Suarez has a very good record at those.  Usually goes close enough or scores a worldie. 

Id be gutted if we got a free in that position in the derby and Suarez let Gerrard have it.
"When you walk, through a storm, hold your head up high"
User avatar
jacdaniel
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby SouthCoastShankly » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:25 pm

jacdaniel » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:12 pm wrote:I know its only a minor issue but was anyone else p.issed off that Gerrard took the free kick the other day in the FA cup?  It was in a perfect position for Suarez to hit it and Suarez has a very good record at those.  Usually goes close enough or scores a worldie. 

Id be gutted if we got a free in that position in the derby and Suarez let Gerrard have it.


He scored from the exact same position against Hull a couple of weeks back. Suarez and Gerrard lined up for that one too.

All they are trying to do is generate some doubt in the keepers mind. If Suarez always took the kicks and invariably always went over the wall, keepers would start to dive earlier. Of course Suarez could start aiming to the right of the keeper, which woudl add an element of uncertainty to the keeper. But by adding Gerrard to the equation, the keeper now has 3 variables to consider.

Besides you may out like Gerrard is a bad free kick taker, prior to Suarez he was our main free kick taker and scored frequently.
User avatar
SouthCoastShankly
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 6076
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: West Sussex

Postby kazza » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:59 pm

Gerrard is a very good free kick taker but right now Suarez is excellent.
User avatar
kazza
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 6613
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Spread thin

Postby damjan193 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:22 pm

It's Ok to have some variety every now and then. Gerrard is a good free-kick taker as well. Didn't he score recently, against Hull I think?

But I'm pretty sure that in more important matches we'll just let Suarez take them.
damjan193
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 8747
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:25 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 61 guests

  • Advertisement
cron
ShopTill-e