Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Well for all his faults Rodgers seems to rate him, he's been practically an ever present since he got back into the side against United. To be fair to our CB's they aren't getting much help from our fullbacks either which must put them under added pressure.

[Stu the Red]

I think its wrong to look at it that way though Yakka... Its only fair to look at it like that if the centre half's are doing their own jobs. Years ago Hyypia kept getting exposed by Traore and people where calling for him to be shipped out around 2005. But Hyypia was always doing things he usually done, it was quite simply he was playing next a liability.

This however a role reversal. I believe Skrtel to be the complete liability. He's at the heart of every goal we concede near enough and he always plays a massive part in them through poor play. Had it been a minimal part in goals you'd turn a blind eye, but its basic defending he gets wrong and its costing us far to many goals.

Most goals in the league are scored through a succession of mistakes, its rare (unless you have Skrtel in your team) that its any different. You can almost guarantee that in that succession Skrtel will be the main or second worst culprit through doing something pathetic. When Sami played with Henchoz and Carragher, usually the standard of the goals we conceded was high and successive mistakes didn't happen often, it was rare both made a mistake in the same passage of play, with Skrtel in the team its regular, not rare and it exposes players around him game after game. Hodgson, Dalglish and the Spaniard hada similar blind spot for him and he's one of the main reasons we've become as bad at the back as we have over recent years.

[SouthCoastShankly]

Ha ha

Update (4 hours later):

I've now stopped laughing.

Stu, you see opinions are like arseho1es - we all have them. The only difference between the majority of us and you, is our doesn't echo out from the depth of our rectums. That's why the majority of us respect differing opinions.

You constantly berate and slate opposing opinions with your standard "anyone with an ounce of knowledge" or "any real supporter knows..." responses that someone stuck in an indefensible corner says. This would all be good if you came from a position of experienced first hand knowledge. But on numerous attempt to work out whether your claims of a superior opinion, or the fact "you know people" is true, you have yet to prove anything. So forgive me for the scepticism. 

I love the fact that on the subject of Skrtel you dismiss the fact that he has invariably been first choice for the last 4 managers. You claim that every manager since Benitez, and including Benitez, plays him due to a blind spot. Let's think about that statement for a minute.

So in the last 9 years, every manager Skrtel has played under, has been blind to the real player who is "average", a "liability" and as you put it "the main culprit in every goal we concede (near enough)".

You really think that?

Oh my days, I think you do actually think that. Talk about denial complex.

The reality of course is each manager who has played Skrtel and put faith in him, has continued to play him because he has been consistently good. Rodger's has been extremely swift to remove players who do not fit or are not good enough in his system. Albeit for a brief dip of form this season, Skrtel has been our main CB. 

You can argue goals and mistakes he may or may not have been at fault for, in your opinion, but the fact remains he is picked more times than not. And that fact has remained for at least the last 5 seasons.

Waiting patiently for your time of the month hysterical reply, I hope you don't treat your husband as bad as you treat us.

[Stu the Red]

Ha ha

Update (4 hours later):

I've now stopped laughing.

Stu, you see opinions are like arseho1es - we all have them. The only difference between the majority of us and you, is our doesn't echo out from the depth of our rectums. That's why the majority of us respect differing opinions.

You constantly berate and slate opposing opinions with your standard "anyone with an ounce of knowledge" or "any real supporter knows..." responses that someone stuck in an indefensible corner says. This would all be good if you came from a position of experienced first hand knowledge. But on numerous attempt to work out whether your claims of a superior opinion, or the fact "you know people" is true, you have yet to prove anything. So forgive me for the scepticism. 

I love the fact that on the subject of Skrtel you dismiss the fact that he has invariably been first choice for the last 4 managers. You claim that every manager since Benitez, and including Benitez, plays him due to a blind spot. Let's think about that statement for a minute.

So in the last 9 years, every manager Skrtel has played under, has been blind to the real player who is "average", a "liability" and as you put it "the main culprit in every goal we concede (near enough)".

You really think that?

Oh my days, I think you do actually think that. Talk about denial complex.

The reality of course is each manager who has played Skrtel and put faith in him, has continued to play him because he has been consistently good. Rodger's has been extremely swift to remove players who do not fit or are not good enough in his system. Albeit for a brief dip of form this season, Skrtel has been our main CB. 

You can argue goals and mistakes he may or may not have been at fault for, in your opinion, but the fact remains he is picked more times than not. And that fact has remained for at least the last 5 seasons.

Waiting patiently for your time of the month hysterical reply, I hope you don't treat your husband as bad as you treat us.

You can question my knowledge and integrity all you like, to be quite honest, its all you have ever tried to do and I'm not in the slightest bit interested what you think of my personal life and I have no need to "prove myself" to you either... to be quite honest, I don't particularly believe you're an international business man who travel's around a lot... but the reality is I don't really care about your personal life enough to question it. I come on here to talk football, and you'll find, that's mostly what I do.

You state you find it amusing? Yet, you again completely fail to address the argument with any sort of debate that relates to subject. I'm actually starting to think you're some sort of Tory MP who gets asked direct questions, yet doesn't have the answers or even understand the issues so deflects the questions and issues away to other subjects. You constantly change the subject and bring up pathetic arguments every time someone questions an "opinion" you bring up. My last response was full of football argue=ments and points which you have then conveniently decided to ignore. That was only going back over the last four or 4 games though... You come out with ***** like, it doesn't matter what mistakes he's made, because he gets picked every week so that means you're wrong... yeah, great argument. Really puts me in my place.

You then go on about how I don't rate Skrtel and love the fact I don't (bit weird)... and use arguments like he played regularly under the Spaniard... the spaniard signed him, Dalglish wasn't there long enough to ship him out, which I'm sure he would have done, Hodgson loved him, don't really agree with Hodgson anyway and Rodgers actually played a 35 year old Carragher ahead of him when he was available last season.... All parts of the argument you conveniently leave out.

You then state how consistently good he's been... its funny how since he broke into the side we've gone from being a champions league team who conceded less than a goal a game on average and kept a lot of clean sheets, some times as many as 20 in a season, to a side that now finishes around 7th and concedes more than a goal a game. How's that for a stat?

Or does that one not suit your argument?

[Stu the Red]

So in the last 9 years, every manager Skrtel has played under, has been blind to the real player who is "average", a "liability" and as you put it "the main culprit in every goal we concede (near enough)".

You really think that?

Oh my days, I think you do actually think that. Talk about denial complex.

That bit I found particularly laughable... I actually pointed out some of his errors in last few games and that's the best argument you can come up with? Also, I'm not in the slightest bit interested what he done before he came here, I'm talking about his time at Liverpool, while playing for Zenith he may well have been one of their best players. While playing for Liverpool... I KNOW he's been a complete liability who costs us far to many goals, makes far to many silly AND MORE IRRITATINGLY BASIC mistakes as well as scoring Sh*t loads of own goals.

Do you remember one of the goals against Southampton earlier in the season? He had three chances to put his foot through the ball, instead he lets it run out of play, we concede a throw in, he's out of position and we concede the goal due to that... Even an 11 year old child would have made a better decision than that.

Anyway, entitled to your clueless opinion... being pig headed is one thing... but when people are pig headed and wrong, like yourself, it makes you look a complete tool.

A word of advice, don't argue with something unless you're right!

[Boocity]

I agree with Stu, I don't rate him, costs us far too many goals, would rather toure played there alongside sakho or agger

[devaney]

I'm not going to get overly involved because I can honestly say that we haven't had one defender in a very long time that I can honestly say I was totally happy with. They all make far too many mistakes and do not do enough to help each other. I'M CERTAINLY NOT A MASSIVE FAN OF SKRTEL but I certainly wouldn't be as scathing as Stu. On the other hand I don't share SCS's enthusiasm. Agger I feel is overrated and just not that good so does that create the Hyppia - Henchoz type of situation for Skrtel. Carragher for the last few years was not the same player. Johnson is simply a poor defender. I could go on.

As for stats just how much do they prove. I think Emile Heskey was selected by seven different England managers. Was he that good? Were the managers that bad? Or just maybe they had nobody else that was any better which brings me back to Skrtel. He has escaped attention because over the last few years the midfield and forward line has required the bulk of our investment. BR knows that there are problems and spending £17m on Sakho was the start of a much needed change.

TIME FOR OUR DEFENSIVE LINE UP TO BE OVERHAULED.

[woof woof !]

I'm not going to get overly involved because I can honestly say that we haven't had one defender in a very long time that I can honestly say I was totally happy with. They all make far too many mistakes and do not do enough to help each other. I'M CERTAINLY NOT A MASSIVE FAN OF SKRTEL but I certainly wouldn't be as scathing as Stu. On the other hand I don't share SCS's enthusiasm. Agger I feel is overrated and just not that good so does that create the Hyppia - Henchoz type of situation for Skrtel. Carragher for the last few years was not the same player. Johnson is simply a poor defender. I could go on.

As for stats just how much do they prove. I think Emile Heskey was selected by seven different England managers. Was he that good? Were the managers that bad? Or just maybe they had nobody else that was any better which brings me back to Skrtel. He has escaped attention because over the last few years the midfield and forward line has required the bulk of our investment. BR knows that there are problems and spending £17m on Sakho was the start of a much needed change.

TIME FOR OUR DEFENSIVE LINE UP TO BE OVERHAULED.

        agreed.

[Stu the Red]

I'm not going to get overly involved because I can honestly say that we haven't had one defender in a very long time that I can honestly say I was totally happy with. They all make far too many mistakes and do not do enough to help each other. I'M CERTAINLY NOT A MASSIVE FAN OF SKRTEL but I certainly wouldn't be as scathing as Stu. On the other hand I don't share SCS's enthusiasm. Agger I feel is overrated and just not that good so does that create the Hyppia - Henchoz type of situation for Skrtel. Carragher for the last few years was not the same player. Johnson is simply a poor defender. I could go on.

As for stats just how much do they prove. I think Emile Heskey was selected by seven different England managers. Was he that good? Were the managers that bad? Or just maybe they had nobody else that was any better which brings me back to Skrtel. He has escaped attention because over the last few years the midfield and forward line has required the bulk of our investment. BR knows that there are problems and spending £17m on Sakho was the start of a much needed change.

TIME FOR OUR DEFENSIVE LINE UP TO BE OVERHAULED.

Enrique is fine at left back, its the other four positions that concern me. However, Sahko did start to show promise before his injury. I still think Hangeland would be worth a punt even though he is injury prone as he'd steady the ship for at least a season or so and would be available reletively cheap due to his age.

Its crystal clear than Johnson and Skrtel aren't the answer and Agger can't be relied upon due to his injury record, which has never shown any sign or improving.

[SouthCoastShankly]

So in the last 9 years, every manager Skrtel has played under, has been blind to the real player who is "average", a "liability" and as you put it "the main culprit in every goal we concede (near enough)".

You really think that?

Oh my days, I think you do actually think that. Talk about denial complex.

That bit I found particularly laughable... I actually pointed out some of his errors in last few games and that's the best argument you can come up with? Also, I'm not in the slightest bit interested what he done before he came here, I'm talking about his time at Liverpool, while playing for Zenith he may well have been one of their best players. While playing for Liverpool... I KNOW he's been a complete liability who costs us far to many goals, makes far to many silly AND MORE IRRITATINGLY BASIC mistakes as well as scoring Sh*t loads of own goals.

Do you remember one of the goals against Southampton earlier in the season? He had three chances to put his foot through the ball, instead he lets it run out of play, we concede a throw in, he's out of position and we concede the goal due to that... Even an 11 year old child would have made a better decision than that.

Anyway, entitled to your clueless opinion... being pig headed is one thing... but when people are pig headed and wrong, like yourself, it makes you look a complete tool.

A word of advice, don't argue with something unless you're right!

Despite being dropped for Carragher last season (which I agreed with BTW. His form dipped he got dropped - no biggie), he still made 33 appearances. The most telling stat of his career is the four teams he has made the most appearance against

14 Manchester United
14 Chelsea
14 Everton
13 Manchester City

Why on earth would successive managers continue to play their worst defender in the biggest games every season?

His league record against those sides is -

13W 13D 9L

Not too shabby.

You hold a minority opinion, that's the end of it. For someone you've never rated, I like to see your defence of his fans player of the year award (with a whopping 44% of the vote) he got a year and half ago. Additionally Echo readers (who vote after every game) have him as our best centre back, in fact top 3 in the whole squad.

Despite your constant attempt to show me the mistakes he makes, you fail to see the flaw in your methods. 1) You could pick out similar CB mistakes for most goals conceded in the league 2) For every mistake you highlight you ignore the clearance, interception, aerial duel won to prevent a goal.

Journalists in virtually every paper have written about Martin Skrtel's resurgence and return to form from last season. Everything you read on him indicates his importance to the team.

But I guess they all have a blind spot for him also.

[devaney]

Top 3 in the squad for what period?

Skrtel's is capable but I still feel we could do better. However that is probably something I could say about most players in the team. Like most defenders he has his frailties. Stu accepts, as I suggested, that the defence needs a serious overhaul. This unfortunately doesn't help MS. Based on this it is very easy to try and find a scapegoat. MS has featured in 226 games for Liverpool. He has started in 210 games. He has scored 4 own goals and there were definitely not all his fault. Reading the criticism which is totally over the top I honestly thought he would be way into double figures and more.

[Santa]

The way he man mark the opposition players...he is gonna cost us a penalty or two soon enough

[SouthCoastShankly]

Top 3 in the squad for what period?

Skrtel's is capable but I still feel we could do better. However that is probably something I could say about most players in the team. Like most defenders he has his frailties. Stu accepts, as I suggested, that the defence needs a serious overhaul. This unfortunately doesn't help MS. Based on this it is very easy to try and find a scapegoat. MS has featured in 226 games for Liverpool. He has started in 210 games. He has scored 4 own goals and there were definitely not all his fault. Reading the criticism which is totally over the top I honestly thought he would be way into double figures and more.

the season so far. Cumulative ranking.

If I had the time I would've kept the old squad rankings going. That used to give a forum view of squad ranking.

[Stu the Red]

Despite being dropped for Carragher last season (which I agreed with BTW. His form dipped he got dropped - no biggie), he still made 33 appearances. The most telling stat of his career is the four teams he has made the most appearance against

14 Manchester United
14 Chelsea
14 Everton
13 Manchester City

Why on earth would successive managers continue to play their worst defender in the biggest games every season?

His league record against those sides is -

13W 13D 9L

Not too shabby.

You hold a minority opinion, that's the end of it. For someone you've never rated, I like to see your defence of his fans player of the year award (with a whopping 44% of the vote) he got a year and half ago. Additionally Echo readers (who vote after every game) have him as our best centre back, in fact top 3 in the whole squad.

Despite your constant attempt to show me the mistakes he makes, you fail to see the flaw in your methods. 1) You could pick out similar CB mistakes for most goals conceded in the league 2) For every mistake you highlight you ignore the clearance, interception, aerial duel won to prevent a goal.

Journalists in virtually every paper have written about Martin Skrtel's resurgence and return to form from last season. Everything you read on him indicates his importance to the team.

But I guess they all have a blind spot for him also.

So you actually believe a player who is bad enough to get dropped for a 35 year old Jamie Carragher is good option?

You then go on to state that its a telling stat he's played against Man Utd, Chelsea and City like its some sort of achievement for a player playing for Liverpool?  

You then try to back this up with a win, loss, draw argument?

Then you say its a minority opinion? What? Because the majority are always right?

On the apparent floors in my arguements, the point is he is NEARLY EVERY TIME the weak link in every goal we concede. He always makes the most glaring and amateurish error and he's the reason we concede most of if not all of the goals we do. What you fail to grasp, is with his mistakes they are poor mistakes. They aren't understanable mistakes, or mistakes anyone can make, they're consistently awful mistakes that he makes time and time again and has never ever learnt in the 5 years he's been here.

And journalists? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Because they often know there stuff!

That has to be one of the worst arguments I've ever come across, as I said, you've avoided the issue as usual. You refuse to comment on individual goals and you refuse to comment on the amount of goals conceded before and after Skrtel because they don't suit your weak argument!

[devaney]

Stu to be honest mate I think your own argument isn't so strong. You've highlighted some of his mistakes but you have done nothing to prove your point that he is nearly always the weak link which I certainly don't agree with. Your over the top nonsense about his own goals is a sad moment of desperation. We all have them    just have another beer or ten 

And  stop using so many fkg smilies yer miserable git