Liverpool FC Forum

[Stu the Red]

Good, witty, intelligent humour.

Just a shame when you talk about football it isn't off the same standard.

No-ones perfect though Red.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Good, witty, intelligent humour.

Just a shame when you talk about football it isn't off the same standard.

No-ones perfect though Red.

I rate Lucas ,you don't. I rate Gerrard ,but can see the glaring deficiencies appearing in his game ,you clearly don't .
Sometimes my analysis of a players game sits well with some ,sometimes it rankles with others ..... such is life.

Its simply the variable musings of football fans from Kirby to Speke ,all intrinsically different, and yet we all watch
the same game .....Go figure 

[devaney]

Just for once RBG I'm praying both you and Yakka have got this one right. I know exactly what you are saying but Gerrard still has the highest number of assists this season in the Premiership. He's not what he was but he still plays a key role and is  one of the reasons we are 2nd in the league. Perhaps you both think we would be top without him?

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Just for once RBG I'm praying both you and Yakka have got this one right. I know exactly what you are saying but Gerrard still has the highest number of assists this season in the Premiership. He's not what he was but he still plays a key role and is  one of the reasons we are 2nd in the league. Perhaps you both think we would be top without him?

the reason we are second is because we have possibly the best strike force in the country, we arent second because we have the best corner taker in the country.
with or without gerrard our midfield isnt good enough, only a few years ago we had a midfield consisting of xabi alonso, javier mascherano and a prime steven gerrard, that is the reason why we got to 2 CL finals and another semi final in the space of 4 years.
midfield is letting us down, if we had say arsenal`s or even evertons midfield behind our front 3 (suarez, sturridge and coutinho) i believe we`d be seriously challenging for the top prizes in the game just like we were a few years ago.
i believe we are in a race against time, to me its a question of wether we can strengthen our midfield sufficiently enough before the likes of suarez and coutinho come to the conclusion that this club isnt the right vehicle for them to achieve their career goals (i.e winning big trophies)
i just hope we have another january window like last year, except this time we find a couple of midfield stars.

[supersub]

Just for once RBG I'm praying both you and Yakka have got this one right. I know exactly what you are saying but Gerrard still has the highest number of assists this season in the Premiership. He's not what he was but he still plays a key role and is  one of the reasons we are 2nd in the league. Perhaps you both think we would be top without him?

the reason we are second is because we have possibly the best strike force in the country, we arent second because we have the best corner taker in the country.
with or without gerrard our midfield isnt good enough, only a few years ago we had a midfield consisting of xabi alonso, javier mascherano and a prime steven gerrard, that is the reason why we got to 2 CL finals and another semi final in the space of 4 years.
midfield is letting us down, if we had say arsenal`s or even evertons midfield behind our front 3 (suarez, sturridge and coutinho) i believe we`d be seriously challenging for the top prizes in the game just like we were a few years ago.
i believe we are in a race against time, to me its a question of wether we can strengthen our midfield sufficiently enough before the likes of suarez and coutinho come to the conclusion that this club isnt the right vehicle for them to achieve their career goals (i.e winning big trophies)
i just hope we have another january window like last year, except this time we find a couple of midfield stars.

spot on....

[devaney]

Just for once RBG I'm praying both you and Yakka have got this one right. I know exactly what you are saying but Gerrard still has the highest number of assists this season in the Premiership. He's not what he was but he still plays a key role and is  one of the reasons we are 2nd in the league. Perhaps you both think we would be top without him?

the reason we are second is because we have possibly the best strike force in the country, we arent second because we have the best corner taker in the country.
with or without gerrard our midfield isnt good enough, only a few years ago we had a midfield consisting of xabi alonso, javier mascherano and a prime steven gerrard, that is the reason why we got to 2 CL finals and another semi final in the space of 4 years.
midfield is letting us down, if we had say arsenal`s or even evertons midfield behind our front 3 (suarez, sturridge and coutinho) i believe we`d be seriously challenging for the top prizes in the game just like we were a few years ago.
i believe we are in a race against time, to me its a question of wether we can strengthen our midfield sufficiently enough before the likes of suarez and coutinho come to the conclusion that this club isnt the right vehicle for them to achieve their career goals (i.e winning big trophies)
i just hope we have another january window like last year, except this time we find a couple of midfield stars.

spot on....

Totally agree that our midfield except PC is letting us down. I just don't see Steve Gerrard as the main problem.

In 2005 we fielded a team in the final of the CL that most people thought would get thrashed. Alonso and Gerrard did play (and brilliantly) but Mascherano was not a Liverpool player in May 2005. I found it unbelievable at the time what Rafa achieved with this team and I still do to this day !! This was the team that played:

GK 1 Poland Jerzy Dudek
RB 3 Republic of Ireland Steve Finnan Substituted off 46'
CB 23 England Jamie Carragher Booked 75'
CB 4 Finland Sami Hyypiä
LB 21 Mali Djimi Traoré
DM 14 Spain Xabi Alonso
RM 10 Spain Luis García
CM 8 England Steven Gerrard (c)
LM 6 Norway John Arne Riise
SS 7 Australia Harry Kewell Substituted off 23'
CF 5 Czech Republic Milan Baroš Booked 81' Substituted off 85'
Substitutes:
GK 20 England Scott Carson
DF 17 Spain Josemi
MF 16 Germany Dietmar Hamann Substituted in 46'
MF 18 Spain Antonio Núñez
MF 25 Croatia Igor Bišćan
FW 9 France Djibril Cissé Substituted in 85'
FW 11 Czech Republic Vladimír Smicer

Does that look like a CL winning team? I'm struggling to find a half decent striker in the team. I liked Milan but he had serious limitations. Same applies to Garcia. Igor,Biscan,Josemi,Kewell,Carson and Nunez were all extremely average and that is being very generous. The point that I am trying to make is that we didn't win the 2005 CL with a fantastic midfield or come to that an amazing team. We won it through dogged determination and grit and over the next few weeks that is exactly what will be required if we are to still be in with a shout of top 4 after January 2nd.. The total sum of the parts far exceeded their individual value in 2005 and once again we need that to happen to stay in the race. Synergy can be incredibly powerful.

[Stu the Red]

Good, witty, intelligent humour.

Just a shame when you talk about football it isn't off the same standard.

No-ones perfect though Red.

I rate Lucas ,you don't. I rate Gerrard ,but can see the glaring deficiencies appearing in his game ,you clearly don't .
Sometimes my analysis of a players game sits well with some ,sometimes it rankles with others ..... such is life.

Its simply the variable musings of football fans from Kirby to Speke ,all intrinsically different, and yet we all watch
the same game .....Go figure 

Let me just correct you there...

I can clearly see the glaring deficiencies in Gerrard's game, always have been able to ever since day one when he first came through, drag up my old posts and you'll clearly see plenty of times where I've mentioned it.

You are correct when you say I don't rate Lucas. I have never rated average players who bring nothing to the table.

[Stu the Red]

Totally agree that our midfield except PC is letting us down. I just don't see Steve Gerrard as the main problem.

In 2005 we fielded a team in the final of the CL that most people thought would get thrashed. Alonso and Gerrard did play (and brilliantly) but Mascherano was not a Liverpool player in May 2005. I found it unbelievable at the time what Rafa achieved with this team and I still do to this day !! This was the team that played:

GK 1 Poland Jerzy Dudek
RB 3 Republic of Ireland Steve Finnan Substituted off 46'
CB 23 England Jamie Carragher Booked 75'
CB 4 Finland Sami Hyypiä
LB 21 Mali Djimi Traoré
DM 14 Spain Xabi Alonso
RM 10 Spain Luis García
CM 8 England Steven Gerrard (c)
LM 6 Norway John Arne Riise
SS 7 Australia Harry Kewell Substituted off 23'
CF 5 Czech Republic Milan Baroš Booked 81' Substituted off 85'
Substitutes:
GK 20 England Scott Carson
DF 17 Spain Josemi
MF 16 Germany Dietmar Hamann Substituted in 46'
MF 18 Spain Antonio Núñez
MF 25 Croatia Igor Bišćan
FW 9 France Djibril Cissé Substituted in 85'
FW 11 Czech Republic Vladimír Smicer

Does that look like a CL winning team? I'm struggling to find a half decent striker in the team. I liked Milan but he had serious limitations. Same applies to Garcia. Igor,Biscan,Josemi,Kewell,Carson and Nunez were all extremely average and that is being very generous. The point that I am trying to make is that we didn't win the 2005 CL with a fantastic midfield or come to that an amazing team. We won it through dogged determination and grit and over the next few weeks that is exactly what will be required if we are to still be in with a shout of top 4 after January 2nd.. The total sum of the parts far exceeded their individual value in 2005 and once again we need that to happen to stay in the race. Synergy can be incredibly powerful.

While I don't agree with Yakka, I can't find myself agreeing with you either.

Hamann and Alonso were FAR superior to anything we currently have in the midfield. Infact, by quite a distance I may add.

Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia. Alonso, Hamann and Gerrard was a fantastic base to produce a team from. Add to that Garcia's goals and unpredictability, Kewell's quality (which he shown a season after) and a couple of other international footballers, Riise's fitness and goal threat and you have a side that's nowhere near as bad as was made out.

Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Alonso, Hamann and Gerrard of that era would all walk into and improve this current side by a massive amount for me. There would also be more than a case made for Kewell, Riise, Smicer and Dudek.

[devaney]

And yet Didi didn't start the game? But I agree he was a fantastic DM. Not sure that I agree with your assessment of  Harry Kewell. Was never a massive fan. If somebody far.ted in his general direction he'd be out for a month !!!

I agree that the midfield in 2005 was superior but the strike force certainly wasn't and that was a key reason for Rafa's boring style of play. There were key problem areas in 2005 and there are key problem areas in 2013. We have just moved them from the forwards to the midfield. Still don't think on paper that our 2005 team looked as good as AC Milan which made the night even more fun. I'm not suggesting it was a bad team. I'm simply saying that on paper they didn't look capable of winning the CL.

[7_Kewell]

And yet Didi didn't start the game? But I agree he was a fantastic DM. Not sure that I agree with your assessment of  Harry Kewell. Was never a massive fan. If somebody far.ted in his general direction he'd be out for a month !!!
.

As my name hints, I was a fan of Harry, but injuries robbed us of his best years. His first season was a blinder and he also played a big part in our 3-1 over Olympiarcos, setting up two and running their full back ragged.

[devaney]

And yet Didi didn't start the game? But I agree he was a fantastic DM. Not sure that I agree with your assessment of  Harry Kewell. Was never a massive fan. If somebody far.ted in his general direction he'd be out for a month !!!
.

As my name hints, I was a fan of Harry, but injuries robbed us of his best years. His first season was a blinder and he also played a big part in our 3-1 over Olympiarcos, setting up two and running their full back ragged.

His first season was his best but do you really think that 7 goals and 2 assists in 36 Premiership games can be regarded as playing a blinder given the position he played? Definitely talented but I was never sure about his overall commitment.

[Stu the Red]

And yet Didi didn't start the game? But I agree he was a fantastic DM. Not sure that I agree with your assessment of  Harry Kewell. Was never a massive fan. If somebody far.ted in his general direction he'd be out for a month !!!
.

As my name hints, I was a fan of Harry, but injuries robbed us of his best years. His first season was a blinder and he also played a big part in our 3-1 over Olympiarcos, setting up two and running their full back ragged.

His first season was his best but do you really think that 7 goals and 2 assists in 36 Premiership games can be regarded as playing a blinder given the position he played? Definitely talented but I was never sure about his overall commitment.

Kewell had a decent first season, but with alot of dips in form, then there was injuries. I believed his best season in a red shirt came in 2005/2006.

He was part of the best midfield I've seen at Liverpool when we had him on the left, Gerrard on the right, Momo and Alonso in the centre.

[maypaxvobiscum]

I read an article stating how BR failed to manage the squad properly by not resting Gerrard enough. Basically the point the writer was trying to make was that why  wasn't Gerrard taken off considering that the game was generally won. What do you guys think? This is a squad rotation issue it seems. While I concede that we do not have the strength in midfield to rotate, we should definitely be taking certain players off earlier once assured of a win. We've hardly seen Alberto play, and Illori hasn't even featured.

[red till i die!!]

I read an article stating how BR failed to manage the squad properly by not resting Gerrard enough. Basically the point the writer was trying to make was that why  wasn't Gerrard taken off considering that the game was generally won. What do you guys think? This is a squad rotation issue it seems. While I concede that we do not have the strength in midfield to rotate, we should definitely be taking certain players off earlier once assured of a win. We've hardly seen Alberto play, and Illori hasn't even featured.

it wasnt just that game though, there has been others where the game was in the bag and yet he still played 90 mins. considering he has been recieving painkilling jabs then yes it was bad management.
for me it doesnt just stop there, alberto has been given very little and whilst i dont expect him to play every game he should be getting more than what he is if he is to gain the experience he needs to be the player we need him to be next season. shelvey wasnt perfect but could be relied on when needed and it beggars belief that we have spent more money replacing him and not got an improvement.
sturridge has always been carrying some sort of injury since he arrived and is another who has been overplayed rather than use aspas to allow him more recovery time.
enrique is another who has been overused and seen as its ok to play flanno now then it has to be wondered if he could have been rotated more then he might not have needed an operation.
with the money we spent we should have at least got players who provide competition for other's and allow rotation to happen. it hasnt really happened thus far and i doubt it will change unless we spend more money but with a better return. at the moment it seems to be flog it till it breaks and then apply plasters.

[LFC1990]

Considering Joe Allen has only just come back from injury and Coutinho had a spell out it has been hard to rest Gerrard.

With Alberto still a little rare we are really only down to 4 Midfielders. Hendo Gerrard Lucas and Allen.

Put that with the fact that Only really the Norwich and Fulham games did we really have the game "won"

Dont forget Sturridge being missing so Coutinho has had to push a bit further forward.

Im not sure if we have seen our best 11 on the same pitch at the same time yet. With Suarez suspension Sturridge and Coutinho injuries and Now Gerrard.

The best thing for gerrard is rest and really play where he can make an inpact and although he scored V Hull that isnt a game in which he can relish and is probably the reason why we have had such a bad away record.

Hopefully Gerrards injury will be a blessing in disguise