Liverpool FC Forum

hello_red wrote:We need wingers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bigmick wrote:

hello_red wrote:I await angry responses in the vain of 'well enough money has been spent' or 'we have been waiting 18 years its about time'

You might find you're on the wrong side of the fence for angry responses mate. It's really only when you get a bit pessimistic that you get people rounding on you like rabid dogs.

I agree with you about the rotation by the way. If there is anybody who thinks that is the sole reason we have "struggled' in the league, then that is a myth IMHo too. I'm not sure anybody ever said "it's all because of rotation" but if they did, it's a myth.

Winning football matches as our manager so often says, is the result of many tiny details. I don't think it's stretching credibility too much to be of the opinion that playing people in positions they are familiar with (ie not Crouch or Gerrard on the left wing) is a fairly important detail. Equally, playing a formation within which the players know what they are doing, playing players who are demonstrably in form and not "resting" them mid flow, and selecting a bunch of players consistently to enable them to find cohesion and team spirit might be considered quite important too.

I suppose that's where some of us disagree really, about how important thee factors are. Some people think they are largely irrelevent which is an interesting point of view. Some people think they matter a bit, some think they are crucial. My suspicion is from your post that you for instance think they matter less than me, which is fair enough. No anger from my side why should there be? Even if you are of the the opinion that rotation is completely irrelevent, that we could put Torres in goal and still be as effective it doesn't make me angry. Not at all, why should it?

On the "we have spent enough money" and "18 years is long enough", I won't disappoint. Eighteen years is long enough, but Rafa has only been here for four so we can hardly put the previous fourteen at his door if we're being sensible. Eighteen years though is a long time and I'm sure any genuine Liverpool fan can now hear and indeed smell the rancid breath of the Mancs on our shoulders. Lets face it, it's not nice.

We have spent lots of money as well. Enough? Well it really depends on what you want. Is it realistic to expect us, to demand that we win the league because we've spent a lot of money? Definately not when you consider that Man Utd have spent more, also Chelsea obviously. I think given the amount of money we've spent it wouold be legitimate to feel a bit aggrieved if we didn't get in the top four, but we couldn't really demand the title.

For me though, it's not all about money. It's the quality of the players the manager has brought to the club. This is where the argument turns on it's head a bit, as this is where the people who believe the manager never makes a mistake talk about us "not convinceders" getting "egg on our face" if we win the title. They talk about us when we win a game "where are they now?" as if we don't want the team to win. Quite how it would be egg on my face if we won the league when I've been saying for the last two seasons that the team is plenty good enough to launch a title challenge is one of lifes mysteries to me, but there you go.

Put simply I agree with the thrust of your point that it requires patience. You don't win the title from fourth to first, we have to get in there and have a challenge at it first, possibly for two seasons. Now I think the manager has brought together an excellent bunch of players, who have been capable of launching that challenge for two seasons now. Had we have done that, we could be realistically talking about winning it this season coming, as opposed to being wildly optimistic to dream of it.

Hopefully all the relevent factors will come into play this season and we'll challenge. I'm supremely confident we will, FWIW I think we'll go very close indeed, within five points or less of the eventual champions with plenty of times during the season where we get the opportunity to dream. I'll be dreaming along with the best of them believe me.

Just as an aside, I think he'll dramatically reduce the rotation of players, formations and positions next season in comparison to what he has done previously. Everyone can decide for themselves then how important it is/was.