Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:35 pm

Lee J wrote:heres a question, If he took over Portsmouth would you bet on him to win the league next year?

No chance in my book, but I would bet on him improving their position and maybe even giving them a good cup run. I think there is only so much that even a top manager can do, but give him a bit of money and a few years and maybe he would surprise everyone?

Put him in charge of Arsenal, Chelsea, the mancs or ourselves though,and would you bet against him to win it in a couple of years or so?

by **stmichael** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:58 pm

Lee J wrote:heres a question, If he took over Portsmouth would you bet on him to win the league next year?

yeah i reckon he'd walk the championship

by **Bermenstein** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:59 pm

I really like Mourihno and I think he is a fantastic motivator and a great man manager who was able to reach out to all of his players. And he was an entertainer to the media, even if he was egotistical.

I am also glad he won the 2 titles he did at chelsea, because I reckon Man Utd would of had 2 more titles if it were not for his presence in the premier league. Which means Man Ure could possibly have surpassed our top flight title count by now.....

Anybody But United

by **Judge** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:06 pm

Bumstain (aka bermenstein), you will get slated for that

by **Madmax** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:15 pm

Bermenstein wrote:I really like Mourihno and I think he is a fantastic motivator and a great man manager who was able to reach out to all of his players. And he was an entertainer to the media, even if he was egotistical.

I am also glad he won the 2 titles he did at chelsea, because I reckon Man Utd would of had 2 more titles if it were not for his presence in the premier league. Which means Man Ure could possibly have surpassed our top flight title count by now.....

Anybody But United

yeah for real im on the same lines aswel. As strange as it may sound i wanted chelsea to still be in the title hunt. IF we dont win it wouldnt mind chelsea. Dont want mannure to be champs again.. Makes me sick...

As for moureen i think his a fab manager.. I Like his style and tactics.. Wouldnt mind him at liverpool but i think he would have too much probs with our current owners..

Anyways we have rafa feck them all rafa will show them when we win the title this season..

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:22 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:but Lando if we were to go by the same examples you're using about how Mourinho already took over a side Mancini built, wouldnt it mean Scolari is a poorer manager then Mourinho as he did inherit a good side himself. as Saint has mentioned in another thread, its not just about taking over a good side, you need to be a good manager.

The team Scholari inherited is nothing like the one Moris won the titles with. The sheer fact is that I don't particularly rate "Big Phil", I just have more time for a manager who shows humility, rather than self-obsessed arrogance.

Moris is a militant, who will leave yoru club in disarray when he has had enough of it.

He's like a fat kid in a sweet shop - keen as mustard until he's had his fill, then he'll vomit everywhere.

CURRENT CHELSEA TEAM:
Petr Cech
Branislav Ivanovich
Ashley Cole
Michael Essien
Ricardo Carvalho
Frank Lampard
Franco Di Santo
Joe Cole
Didier Drogba
John Mikel Obi
Michael Ballack
Florent Malouda
José Bosingwa
Ricardo Quaresma
Paulo Ferreira
Deco
Salomon Kalou
John Terry
Mineiro
Rhys Taylor
Alex
Juliano Belletti
Nicolas Anelka
Henrique Hilário
Michael Mancienne
Miroslav Stoch
Claudio Pizarro
Wayne Bridge (left this season)
Carlo Cudicini (left this season)

FORMER PLAYERS UNDER JOSE:
Carlo Cudicini
William Gallas
Eidur Gudjohnsen
Jiri Jarosik
Robert Huth
Glen Johnson
Mateja Kezman
Maniche
Scott Parker
Alexey Smertin

looking at it, Gallas was replaced by Cole.
Smertin, Jarosik and Parker couldnt dislodge Malalele, Lampard and Essien. the trio hardly played.
Gudjohnsen and Kezman has been replaced by Anelka and Di Santo who IMO are far better players. (i feel Di Santo has amazing aerial ability!)
Maniche lasted just one season. Ballack and Mikel were ready made replacements.

all in all, Luis had a far better team. if i am missing some players please point it out as Chelsea's website doesnt happen to have a ''history'' section and i had to rely on wiki

I think you're forgetting a certain Mr Robben. The lad virtually won the first title on his own.

What you also need to remember is that a lot of the current crop are 5 years older than when Moris took over. No ability on the flanks + an aging squad = trouble.

And Roman can't afford another £300,000,000 spending spree.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:25 pm

bigmick wrote:In fairness to Scholari (whio I think it is ridiculous to sack after 7 months) I don't think he has got anywhere near as good nor as hungry a team as Mourinho has. Drogba and Carvallio are both nowhere near the players they were under Mourinho. The striker looks like he wants away, while the defnder may just have gone over the top it's hard to tell.

Coming back briefly to Lando's point about tactical awareness, I wouldn't necessarily put Mourinho on the same elvel as Benitez. Equally, i think althoguh he bought well his buys were sometimes suspect, which until this closed season where we royally fecked it up Rafa hs been largely solid if not spectacular. The way he wins any comparison hands down is in the fact that he knows how to get people to play together and produce ona consistent basis. Perhaps his percieved lack of tactical finery means he doesn't get bogged down too much with intricacies, perhaps he doesn't buy into the rotation, the horses for courses, the delayed gazelles and the like because he believes the game is simpler than that. Who knows? Certainly not me, but I remember them rolling everyone over (including us many times) with ruthless efficiency in the league. It didn't take Mourinho five years to "get the hang" of the Premiership, it took five minutes.

I would also go back from a tactical point of view to the 4-5-1 which was quite innovative, both in the way they attacked and defended. Truth be told our set-up now is very much a derivative of it particularly from a defensive point of view, so he's not any mug I'm fairly assured of that. You don't win the Champions League with Porto if you don't understand tactics.

Are you suggesting that Rafa copied Moris' 4-5-1 system?

I think you'll probably find Rafa employed the 4-2-3-1 (simplified to 4-5-1) at Valencia, long before the Spastic One arrived at Chelsea.

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:41 pm

I don't think there are too may similarities to the 4-5-1 which Mourinho played and the one which Valencia employed. Mourinho's version was built for English football, with Drogba just about as typical an English centre forward who's not English as you could get. They were more than willing to miss the midfield out and hit from either fullback channel, which is not a method Valencia went for. Chelsea got much criticism (some of it deserved) for being overly 'route-oneish', and at their best were a powerhouse of a team.

They differed from us right now mainly in the sense that their wide players were far better. I've absolutely no doubts (and I don't think you would disagree Lando even) that if you stuck Robben and Duff of that time into our team, we'd win the Premiership with our current team, provided Torres or Gerrard didn't get injured.

Ultimately though, who thought of a system first in a different country is something you could go on about all day. The 4-5-1 which he used over here was different at the time he used it, unique in England and to be honest although teams have copied it over here nobody has come close to matching that units efficiency. They were rock solid at the back and ruthlessly efficient going forward, without ever really playing the flowing football of the mancs or Arsenal at their best. In his first season there, they lost one match and won 29. Tactical muppetry doesn'tallow any manager to do that. They did many times beat us along the way as well. Yes we ended up on the right side of two extremely tight Champions League semi's, but overall we lost many more against them than we won that's for sure.

by **GYBS** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:00 pm

So do you rate Jose over rafa then Mick ?

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:15 pm

GYBS wrote:So do you rate Jose over rafa then Mick ?

Yes I do in our situation. I would like to win the league again before two things have happened. One, I've popped me clogs and gone to the great dildo shop in the sky. Two, before the Mancs have gone five titles clear of our total. IMHO under Mourinho we would have infinately more chance of winning the Premiership than we would have with Rafa.

As I've said a couple of times now, I don't think Rafa will win the league with us. Sorry that makes people angry when I say it, it makes me a little angry as well to tell the truth, but it is what I think anyway.

Anyway, the thread is about Mourinho so I'll discuss our own manager on the myriad of threads which talk about him and his rafalution.

I did mention earlier that if Mourinho went back to Chelsea next season, they'd immediately become proper title contenders. If he went to Man City they'd finish in the top four. Both of those statements I'd happily have a wager with people on (at the correct odds in Man City's case :;):

) but a bit like you in your poll of earlier, I didn't include the most obvious option.

In this case it would be the true nightmare scenario. If Mourinho was to replace Ferguson at Man Utd (and he is by all accounts whisky nose's first choice) we may not win the thing again for a very long time.

Only if we are looking for a new manager in the Summer, I think we should get Mourinho. As I've said a number of times though, I don't think that will happen because i think we will finish 7-8 points behind the Mancs and Rafa will get a new contract on account of our progression (from 11 points back the season before).

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:43 pm

GYBS wrote:Guess it will just be me then that doesnt want him near the club

An me i hate the ba.stard. I wouldnt want him anywhere near our club.

by **Number 9** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:56 pm

Fecking two points behind UTD and people are saying we are out of it and Rafas on his last legs,loosing the plot and all that and ready to lick the self titled "special ones" balls
Theres more negativity on this board this year when we are doing better than other years when we are well and truely out of it...fuc'king weird and just wrong!

As for the "we will never win it with Rafa"
I disagree...I think(of course I cant prove it) that if Torres was fit all season..we'd have turned those draws into wins and be top.In fact when ya look at the Chelsea and Pompey games im fuc'king sure of it!
Of cousre its a pointless statement,but food for thought for those that think we are no hopers!

by **GYBS** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:59 pm

im with you there nanny . and yes mick i am a bit disappointed to hear a Liverpool fan being so wax lyrical about someone who acted in the the way they did against our club - he had the chance to manager us before but turned us down to go for the money at chelsea . And im sorry the money was a massive help towards him winning the title . As without Abramovich and his money they wouldnt of won those titles and Maureen wouldnt of been there in the first place - Yes decent manager - bit lucky with situations that have fallen for him - as a man - despise the man and i know a lot of liverpool fans do . Him being at the club would just be the cherry on the top of a shi t cake with the owners as the filing . Every manager we have had has acted with grace and dignity and while been clever towards opposition and thier managers have always shown a bit of class - starting right back at Shanks. In rafas words " Me and jose used to get on and were friendly then we started beating them and things changed and he became disrespectful towards the club the players and the fans "

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:36 pm

Well I' sorry you are disappointed in a Liverpool fan looking at Jose Mourinhos' record. I've said a couple of times in the thread already that I don't think he will end up at anfield as I think Rafa will get a new contract. I've also said a couple of times int he thread, IF WE WERE LOOKING FOR A NEW MANAGER IN THE SUMMER ETC ETC. I essntially started the thread because you didn't put him in your daft poll (and I'm the one being disrespectful

). I thought I'd have a wee look into his record, beyond the "he's a c..." angle and have a proper look at where he's coming from. I've criticised him myself heavily in the past, I've been extremely unconvinced by the hype, so I thought I'd have a little look and set out his record so people could judge.

Now understandably, some people can't get past the feeling that he's a c...

which is fine. I'm simply looking at his record and trying to take that aspect out of it. I've started the thread in Premiership, General discussion so it's not like I'm infecting the Liverpool part of the forum. I can't really see what the problem is myself but there you go.

by **GYBS** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:42 pm

At the moment considering the situation we are in so far for a while i have seen you have nothing but critizism for our own manager while praising to high heaven someone like maureen ?

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