Liverpool FC Forum

Alex Ferguson criticism of Steven Gerrard harsh - Brendan Rodgers

Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers has defended captain Steven Gerrard after Sir Alex Ferguson claimed he is not a "top, top player".

Former Manchester United manager Ferguson made the comment in his book, My Autobiography, but Rodgers said the criticism was unjustified.

"I think everyone who's seen the comments will think they are harsh," Rodgers told talkSPORT.

Gerrard led England to qualification for the World Cup this month.

Ex-Swansea boss Rodgers, who took over at Liverpool in 2012, added: "I've watched Gerrard for many years and recognised he's a top player, but it's only when you come in and work with the man that you realise how professional he is on a daily basis.

"His performance level at 33 years of age shows he's a top, top player. He's a great talent - a wonderful player - and I don't think anyone could argue against that."

Rodgers also praised striker Daniel Sturridge, who has scored 10 goals in 12 games in all competitions for Liverpool and England this season.

"He's been brilliant," Rodgers said of the £12m signing from Chelsea. "He's come here in January with a point to prove. He's very hungry and his goals-per-game ratio has been remarkable.

"Daniel's a player who produces. He's a natural goalscorer, but he's got so many other things to his game: pace, power and great feet. In the next few years he could be one of the top strikers in Europe."

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Good to see our manager come out in defence of Gerrard

damjan193 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:20 pm wrote:Great post Yakka, especially about Scholes. I feel the same way about him myself. Though I think that saying that Gerrard is better than a combination of Scholes and Keane is going a bit too far, you got the rest spot on.

i didnt say that though mate (or at least i didnt intent to!)
i meant to say you could have replaced either of those with gerrard and he would have improved uniteds team, at his very best gerrard was very close to being the best player on the planet imo.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:49 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:20 pm wrote:Great post Yakka, especially about Scholes. I feel the same way about him myself. Though I think that saying that Gerrard is better than a combination of Scholes and Keane is going a bit too far, you got the rest spot on.

i didnt say that though mate (or at least i didnt intent to!)
i meant to say you could have replaced either of those with gerrard and he would have improved uniteds team, at his very best gerrard was very close to being the best player on the planet imo.

And at the age of only 33 you now consider him to be at best a very average premier league footballer?

Something Scholes was at 38?

I don't have a problem with people talking about Gerrard in the same breath as Keane and Scholes as their are clearly arguements to be made for all three. For me Scholes edges it, but to say that anyone is miles better than the other is just complete and utter stupidity.

To call it an insult for Gerrard to be name in the same bracket as Keane and Scholes is just plain and utter stupidity again and completely and utterly naive based on media coverage.

To put Lampard in the same breath as these four is just damn right idiotic and ridiculous.

StuYesThatStu » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:08 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:49 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:20 pm wrote:Great post Yakka, especially about Scholes. I feel the same way about him myself. Though I think that saying that Gerrard is better than a combination of Scholes and Keane is going a bit too far, you got the rest spot on.

i didnt say that though mate (or at least i didnt intent to!)
i meant to say you could have replaced either of those with gerrard and he would have improved uniteds team, at his very best gerrard was very close to being the best player on the planet imo.

And at the age of only 33 you now consider him to be at best a very average premier league footballer?

Something Scholes was at 38?

I don't have a problem with people talking about Gerrard in the same breath as Keane and Scholes as their are clearly arguements to be made for all three. For me Scholes edges it, but to say that anyone is miles better than the other is just complete and utter stupidity.

To call it an insult for Gerrard to be name in the same bracket as Keane and Scholes is just plain and utter stupidity again and completely and utterly naive based on media coverage.

To put Lampard in the same breath as these four is just damn right idiotic and ridiculous.

I didn't want to bother but you got me wrong. I didn't say that I don't put Keane and Scholes in the same bracket as Gerrard. In fact, I said the opposite. You on the other hand tried to imply that Scholes and Keane were better players than Gerrard, or at least it looked that way because you agreed with Ferguson's statements, statements which, in my opinion, suggested that he doesn't consider Gerrard in the same league as Scholes and Keane. That, IMO, is an insult to Gerrard, who should definitely be considered as one of the world's best.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:53 am wrote:
i think gerrard is the best player of the 3.
people get bogged down by what players have won in their careers and use that as a yard stick to ascertain how good they were as footballers when at the end of the day there`s 11 people in a team.
imo gerrard could have walked into that united side and not only done the same job as keane or scholes but actually improved the team, i think that united side with a prime gerrard in it would have probably dominated the CL like they dominated the domestic title.
believe me i dont care who united had in that side if gerrard would have walked through the gates at old trafford back then he would have made himself the driving force of that team, he would have been `the man` just as he was here, he was that good.
but on the flip side if you would have put scholes or keane in our team instead of gerrard there`s no way we would have achieved what we did, scholes and keane are excellent players but they are not the kind of one man army that gerrard was (and what we needed), scholes was like dalglish, he needed other good, intelligent players around him to get the best out of his game where as you could surround gerrard with 10 crabs and he`d still be a force of nature.
scholes was a conductor of an orchestra but what use is a conductor if the band cant play their instruments?
it`s easy to look good when your surrounded by class players because if you have an off day no one notices, someone else in your team picks up the slack, you win and you move on to the next game, ian rush has spoken about it often.
but when everyone is looking to you to produce something everyone notices when you have a bad day.
all eyes have been on gerrard for a decade, sometimes in hope, sometimes in desperation but always in admiration, he is the best liverpool player i will ever see in my lifetime, he is my generations elisha scott or billy liddell.
there are young lads around now who, when they are old men, will have ale houses full of people hanging off their every word when they talk about how they saw steven gerrard play.

Firstly, its not just about what players have won. But lets face it, some of that has value. Anyone that denies this is clutching at straws at best.

You don't play in a multi title winning side for the best part of 20 years and achieve what Scholes has if "other players make you look good". You state you think that United would have been better had Gerrard played for them, but one thing both Keane and Scholes have always done throughout their career is make better in game decisions than Gerrard with the ball at their feet. They both keep possession alot better than Steven ever has or will. So on that, I'm not so sure. They would have gained things... while losing others.

Your post completely fails to take Gerrard's weaknesses into account which are becoming more apparent with his age and playing currently next to the players he is playing with. These weaknesses have always been there as a player. Granted, he's not poor at anything in particular, thats what makes him what he is. But I certainly wouldn't say he's ever been the most subtle of intelligent player I've ever seen.

Now, to an extent, I agree with Scholes needing other players around him. But thats not a reflection on his ability. If anything that would be a reflection of the ability of the players around him. And lets be honest, that does apply to every player in the world. If you put Messi in a long ball side he'd only be half as effective, but does that make him any worse an individual?

I've said it many times on this forum and had it dismissed and because you come out with some sort of god praise Gerrard post everyones jumping on the bandwagon... he could have eleven donkey's next to him, that wouldn't mean he himself is any worse a footballer.

Certain players will tell you that Paul Scholes was "glue" that held everything together. The one that kept possession for his team and the one who controlled a pace of a game. Every united player and supporter will tell you they won games because of the control he exerted in a match. He may not have got the direct assist or the winning goal as Gerrard so often did, but he will have hammered other teams into submission with his passing and vision, playing players into dangerous area's time and time again. Intercepting clearances, winning tackles and starting moves, knowing exactly when to pass long, when to pass short and who to pass to. Because he wasn't loved by the media in the Gerrard/Lampard way... he's been underated. But its no coincidence that all the Man Utd players, the Man Utd manager and most of their opponents over the years single him out for praise the way they do. You could even just ask who's team won the most five a side games for United... they'd all tell you the same answer (probably the same at Liverpool with Gerrard).

You also make it sound like Gerrard never played with great players throughout his career. Alonso, Torres, Reina are all world class footballers that have played in the same team. Then there are other excellent players like Sami and Mascherano etc.

Make no mistake about it, I rate Gerrard very very very highly, I love the lad and the way he plays. Always have. There is something about some of the moments he's produced during his career that are simply awe inspiring but to dismiss other great players completely inferior is not only tunnel visioned and naive, but to be quite honest, shows a massive level of ignorance.

damjan193 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:30 pm wrote:

StuYesThatStu » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:08 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:49 pm wrote:
i didnt say that though mate (or at least i didnt intent to!)
i meant to say you could have replaced either of those with gerrard and he would have improved uniteds team, at his very best gerrard was very close to being the best player on the planet imo.

And at the age of only 33 you now consider him to be at best a very average premier league footballer?

Something Scholes was at 38?

I don't have a problem with people talking about Gerrard in the same breath as Keane and Scholes as their are clearly arguements to be made for all three. For me Scholes edges it, but to say that anyone is miles better than the other is just complete and utter stupidity.

To call it an insult for Gerrard to be name in the same bracket as Keane and Scholes is just plain and utter stupidity again and completely and utterly naive based on media coverage.

To put Lampard in the same breath as these four is just damn right idiotic and ridiculous.

I didn't want to bother but you got me wrong. I didn't say that I don't put Keane and Scholes in the same bracket as Gerrard. In fact, I said the opposite. You on the other hand tried to imply that Scholes and Keane were better players than Gerrard, or at least it looked that way because you agreed with Ferguson's statements, statements which, in my opinion, suggested that he doesn't consider Gerrard in the same league as Scholes and Keane. That, IMO, is an insult to Gerrard, who should definitely be considered as one of the world's best.

Gerrard IMO has been the most complete centre mid in the prem over the last decade. He is ahead of both Scholes and Keane IMO  - I think the Yakka barometer works very well.

damjan193 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:30 pm wrote:I didn't want to bother but you got me wrong. I didn't say that I don't put Keane and Scholes in the same bracket as Gerrard. In fact, I said the opposite. You on the other hand tried to imply that Scholes and Keane were better players than Gerrard, or at least it looked that way because you agreed with Ferguson's statements, statements which, in my opinion, suggested that he doesn't consider Gerrard in the same league as Scholes and Keane. That, IMO, is an insult to Gerrard, who should definitely be considered as one of the world's best.

Thats fair enough and accept that, but that isn't how it came across at all.

You came across as if you were saying that to say those two are better than Gerrard is an insult. Which it clearly isn't. You can be alot worse than both of those players like Alonso and still be counted as a genuine world class footballer. Theres certainly no shame in it.

I personally do think that Keane and Scholes were very marginally better than Steven. And I mean marginally. I think on midfield play and general play they are both a fair bit better than Gerrard. Where Gerrard makes it up is as yakka says, his ability to pull out Roy of the Rovers style performances on a more regular basis. To me that's, what even's it off.

I wouldn't argue over someone suggesting ones better than the other, as I've said a million times, there is definately arguements to be made for all three. But when people start including Lampard into the debate it becomes embarrassing as the lad isn't fit to lace any of their boots. You may aswell include the likes of Barton, Bullard and Barry in the debate if you're including Lampard.

Comparing Lampard to Bullard again

Yep Yakka is spot on.

It is insulting to Lampard to compare him to players like Bullard.

I remember when Lampards fellow pros voted him in the top 3 players in the world - but no one did that for Bullard

I remember when the most successful European manager in the last ten years called Lampard one of the best in the world for a 4 year period

Lampard may not be at the same level as Gerrard , Scholes and Keane but he is streets ahead of players like Barton , Barry and Bullard and he has proven that on the field and still does whilst being an integral member of a very successful Chelsea team. He is/was a goal scoring midfielder of the highest level in football IMO

BR just on SSN sticking up for the Liverpool players - didn't realise he also critisized Henderson - talking about the way he runs ?

"After a brief spell in charge at Anfield, Roy Hodgson gave way to Kenny again and Liverpool embarked on another phase of major rebuilding. Yet few of the signings made in Kenny’s time haunted me at night. We looked at Jordan Henderson a lot and Steve Bruce was unfailingly enthusiastic about him. Against that we noticed that Henderson runs from his knees, with a straight back, while the modern footballer runs from his hips. We thought his gait might cause him problems later in his career."

Hardly damning criticism in truth and a bit of gamesmanship from Brendan I reckon.

Haunted him at night

fivecups » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:36 pm wrote:"After a brief spell in charge at Anfield, Roy Hodgson gave way to Kenny again and Liverpool embarked on another phase of major rebuilding. Yet few of the signings made in Kenny’s time haunted me at night. We looked at Jordan Henderson a lot and Steve Bruce was unfailingly enthusiastic about him. Against that we noticed that Henderson runs from his knees, with a straight back, while the modern footballer runs from his hips. We thought his gait might cause him problems later in his career."

Hardly damning criticism in truth and a bit of gamesmanship from Brendan I reckon.

Oh that's f*cking disgraceful that. I can't believe Ferguson would dare to say something as bad as that about a world class footballer like Henderson.

How dare he even consider that Henderson's running style may cause him problems in his latter career. I mean, thats so disrespectful and untrue. You can't possibly think about something like that as a professional.

I mean its shocking that he decided not to spend £15,000,000 or so on a player he had doubts over. Just shows what he knows.

Typical Man Utd and all that *****...

Bitter Ferguson etc.

Henderson must be well ***** off that someone's ripped his game to shreds in that manor.



Just preparing you for the reaction you're likely to get off Benny and the likes for daring to suggest that Ferguson may either have:

A: Had a point
B: Not really slagged him off as much as the media made out
C: Both of the above.

For what its worth, I can understand and see what Ferguson means. He does run in an odd fashion. I disagree about it causing him problems during his career... but can certainly see the point of view. I don't see the issue with a retired manager stating such a thing.  Its not like he came out and called the lad what he actually is... an average premier league footballer.

Stu you're beginning to sound like a closet Manc  Ferguson has so much history of bitterness towards Liverpool that I find it amazing that you are going to such great lengths to defend him. Can I just remind you of one incident. After the infamous Suarez Evra negrito match Ferguson went into the referees office screaming that Suarez had racially abused Evra 10 times which was later discovered to be a fabrication of the truth. He demanded that everything was documented for legal reasons and he made sure that maximum damage was caused to Liverpool and Suarez.  He succeeded and if you think that had anything to do with racism then you are being very naive.He was incensed and very close to self combusting. Ferguson's actions are documented in the kangaroo court findings for all to read. Compare Ferguson's and Evra's behaviour to Chelsea's and Ivanovic's behaviour. Ivanovic could have demanded that the police take action for common assault. Chelsea could have made both Suarez and the clubs lives considerably more problematic. They chose not to. Good manager - possibly. Grade "A" kunt - definitely !!

So because you absolutely can't stand someone's character and despise someones attitude towards something that means they can't be right about things or have valid points?

To be quite honest, that does seem to be a trait on these boards that people won't agree with someone they "dis like" even if they actually agree on the point.

Its not a personality trait I share with most people though.

If someone has a point that is worth discussing then I'm all for it, when you get idiots making up facts and presenting them as opinions then its simply not worth discussing.

Just because I can't stand someone I can still respect their ability and knowledge in an area, even if I often don't respect the way in which they go about expressing their views.

Anyone that accuses Ferguson of being clueless and not having a point with a large amount of footballing issues is quite frankly a deluded muppet. Any retired manager should come out and say exactly what they think. I certainly don't beat around the bush and wouldn't expect anyone else too either.

What Ferguson said about Henderson was his opinion. Its crystal clear why he thinks that as the lad has an odd running style, but its something I find irrelivant... that doesn't mean he's some sort of anti christ for having that opinion. His opinion on Gerrard is also valid again in my opinion, he rates Scholes and Keane above Steven, big deal. Its not like he's saying Carrick and Fletcher are better players. If he's said they were better players then I'd see what the fuss is about, but he's talking about two of the best players the country has seen. Which for me, again is a perfectly valid opinion.

Believe me, I'm no Man Utd devaney.

But I am a football fan, not just a happy clappy LFC supporter.

BR also seems to have taken exception to Ferguson's comments about Gerrard and the suggestion that he isn't a top top player given his recent response to Ferguson's book. Perhaps he has got it wrong as well. I certainly don't need some bitter old kunt to tell me how good Gerrard is or otherwise. He has an agenda. How many other teams did he write a chapter on ?