Liverpool FC Forum

by **tonyeh** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:40 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:What happens when Rafa is here for next season ? People talk as if he is going to go where as IMO I think next season he will be our manager still . Will people let him start the season fresh and give him a chance or will some still demand the sack even before first game has finished

Personally speaking, the ONLY way my opinion of Benitez will change is if Benitez changes my opinion. HE has brought me to my current opinion of him with his actions and it will be him that will alter that opinion.

NOBODY here knows Raphael Benitez, so all of the "He loves Liverpool" and "He's a great guy" is just bollocks. Likewise, so is the "Rafa is a c*nt" stuff that floats around. None of us has the first clue about what Benitez is like, personality wise. So, any final determinations made on what he's supposed to be like remains in people's heads.

But, what we can go on, is what we see week in week out and in general it hasn't been very good, nor has there been any indication that it'll get any better.

by **damjan193** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:52 pm

I personaly dont hate Rafa (I mean as a manager cos I dont know him in person so I cant judge).I dont know if I want him sacked.He won us the CL, he won us the cup he almost won us the prem not so long ago.This is only one year, it happens.But the thing is, he does these idiotic mistakes, like he's some kind of amateur, mistakes that no manager would do, mistakes tha no person with common sense would do.Bottome line, as much as I hate him THIS SEASON I would still give him another chance, because he was OK so far, so one bad season is not enough to sack him.Anyway, why are we talking about Rafa in this thread

?

by **red_guy** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:00 pm

tonyeh wrote:Personally speaking, the ONLY way my opinion of Benitez will change is if Benitez changes my opinion. HE has brought me to my current opinion of him with his actions and it will be him that will alter that opinion.

NOBODY here knows Raphael Benitez, so all of the "He loves Liverpool" and "He's a great guy" is just bollocks. Likewise, so is the "Rafa is a c*nt" stuff that floats around. None of us has the first clue about what Benitez is like, personality wise. So, any final determinations made on what he's supposed to be like remains in people's heads.

But, what we can go on, is what we see week in week out and in general it hasn't been very good, nor has there been any indication that it'll get any better.

what he said. :nod

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:03 pm

lakes10 wrote:when it come to him being the manager of our club he falls down in some big areas, subs, buying players, talking to the media, not talking to players, view on the prem, putting the CL first all the time, team tactics.

so did rafa prioritise europe last season then? and as for talking to the media, that's exactly why the media have never liked him, because he doesn't pander to their every word like someone like harry redknapp who's everybody's best mate and gets lauded despite having basically won sod all in his entire managerial career. it's almost as ridiculous as the media slaughtering him for not celebrating when we score a goal because in their eyes that means "he's cold" and as a result they can't warm to him blah blah blah.

at the end of the day after the season we've had i don't expect us to be challenging for the league in the next couple of seasons, especially if the club is still in the mess it is in and while we still have the two idiots in charge in the boardroom. no club whoever they are, having the problems that we have at boardroom level will never be successful. it just annoys me when fans throw their dummies out of the pram after one really poor season.

by **Scottbot** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:13 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:So greavsie your going to ignore the improvements on previous seasons then or just concentrate on this season and your not going to support him if he is our manager next season.

What improvements Benny? If we focus on ther league, last season was awesome, the rest have been poor. One challenge in 6 years. Five years of being done by Christmas (sometimes earlier) - FIVE! Is that good enough for you?

Please answer the question - Is our one league challenge in Rafa's 6 years in charge good enough for you? And by challenge I mean still having a chance at the league come February/March.

by **Scottbot** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:15 pm

s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:What happens when Rafa is here for next season ? People talk as if he is going to go where as IMO I think next season he will be our manager still . Will people let him start the season fresh and give him a chance or will some still demand the sack even before first game has finished

I support the team not the manager, so it will be business as usual as far as I am concerned if he stays. I will praise him when he gets things right, criticise him when I think he is wrong and support the players.

I don't have any sort of grudge against Rafa, I think he is a good manager, but like Houllier just not quite good enough. I WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED IF HE PROVED ME WRONG and we won the league next season, but I don't believe he will.

Pretty much echoes my thoughts.

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:22 pm

Scottbot wrote:If we focus on ther league, last season was awesome, the rest have been poor. One challenge in 6 years. Five years of being done by Christmas (sometimes earlier) - FIVE! Is that good enough for you?

Please answer the question - Is our one league challenge in Rafa's 6 years in charge good enough for you? And by challenge I mean still having a chance at the league come February/March.

united and chelsea have had far superior squads than us, especially in rafa's first few seasons here. 04/05 we finished 37 points behind chelsea. so by that token 05/06 was an excellent league season. 82 points and had two spells of winning 10 league games in a row. ok we only finished 3rd but that was a freak season. the winners will probably only have to get just over 82 points this season. we also won the fa cup. 06/07 was up and down and was masked by another CL final and 07/08 was another up and down season.

the point i'm making is that even when the league form has been inconsistent we've still had success elsewhere in the CL and cups which has kept the interest alive. this is by far the worst season rafa has had but one poor season after such a brilliant season doesn't make him a bad manager overnight. these are essentially the same players.

i still maintain to this day that we overachieved last season.

by **ConnO'var** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:28 pm

Scottbot wrote:
s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:What happens when Rafa is here for next season ? People talk as if he is going to go where as IMO I think next season he will be our manager still . Will people let him start the season fresh and give him a chance or will some still demand the sack even before first game has finished

I support the team not the manager, so it will be business as usual as far as I am concerned if he stays. I will praise him when he gets things right, criticise him when I think he is wrong and support the players.

I don't have any sort of grudge against Rafa, I think he is a good manager, but like Houllier just not quite good enough. I WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED IF HE PROVED ME WRONG and we won the league next season, but I don't believe he will.

Pretty much echoes my thoughts.

+ 1

by **Big Niall** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:41 pm

As someobody said, we are usually out of the league by Christmas under Benitez.

I think if he is in charge at the start of next season, there'll be no belief in the squad, how can there be. At least with a new manager there is always a chance.

by **Scottbot** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:44 pm

stmichael wrote:
Scottbot wrote:If we focus on ther league, last season was awesome, the rest have been poor. One challenge in 6 years. Five years of being done by Christmas (sometimes earlier) - FIVE! Is that good enough for you?

Please answer the question - Is our one league challenge in Rafa's 6 years in charge good enough for you? And by challenge I mean still having a chance at the league come February/March.

united and chelsea have had far superior squads than us, especially in rafa's first few seasons here. 04/05 we finished 37 points behind chelsea. so by that token 05/06 was an excellent league season. 82 points and had two spells of winning 10 league games in a row. ok we only finished 3rd but that was a freak season. the winners will probably only have to get just over 82 points this season. we also won the fa cup. 06/07 was up and down and was masked by another CL final and 07/08 was another up and down season.

the point i'm making is that even when the league form has been inconsistent we've still had success elsewhere in the CL and cups which has kept the interest alive. this is by far the worst season rafa has had but one poor season after such a brilliant season doesn't make him a bad manager overnight. these are essentially the same players.

i still maintain to this day that we overachieved last season.

I agree the failure in the Champs League has really brought our league form into focus but it also distracted most from it in the previous seasons. There's no doubt that if we were preparing for a Champions League semi-final in a few days instead of the UEFA the mood amongst LFC fans would be somewhat different.

I don't think Rafa is a bad manager, far from it. But I do see him (and the team) mirroring Houllier's last years. There seem to be a lot paralels. Rafa's selections, decisions, and post match comments (much like Geds) have become stranger and stranger as this season as wore on, the football has been turgid at best and the players seem to have lost belief. It's Houllier all over again and I fear it will be just as bad next season. Ged eradicated every last bit of goodwill from the fans during that final season when he was clinging onto the job by his finger nails and the fans could barely raise a cheer when the teams came out. I fear we're going down exactly the same road with Rafa next season. Listening to Rafa's comments about investment this week made me cringe a little as it seemed to me that he absolving himself from any blame for this season's failings, when I place him right at the centre of it.

I still think Madrid will come calling in the summer, they're out of Europe and Barca look favourites for the league. Rafa will probabaly go there and win the title in his first season!!!

PS. I agree with over-achieved last season however, we have underachieved (in the league) in every other season (including Rafa's first few years).

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:57 pm

Scottbot wrote:
stmichael wrote:
Scottbot wrote:If we focus on ther league, last season was awesome, the rest have been poor. One challenge in 6 years. Five years of being done by Christmas (sometimes earlier) - FIVE! Is that good enough for you?

Please answer the question - Is our one league challenge in Rafa's 6 years in charge good enough for you? And by challenge I mean still having a chance at the league come February/March.

united and chelsea have had far superior squads than us, especially in rafa's first few seasons here. 04/05 we finished 37 points behind chelsea. so by that token 05/06 was an excellent league season. 82 points and had two spells of winning 10 league games in a row. ok we only finished 3rd but that was a freak season. the winners will probably only have to get just over 82 points this season. we also won the fa cup. 06/07 was up and down and was masked by another CL final and 07/08 was another up and down season.

the point i'm making is that even when the league form has been inconsistent we've still had success elsewhere in the CL and cups which has kept the interest alive. this is by far the worst season rafa has had but one poor season after such a brilliant season doesn't make him a bad manager overnight. these are essentially the same players.

i still maintain to this day that we overachieved last season.

I agree the failure in the Champs League has really brought our league form into focus but it also distracted most from it in the previous seasons. There's no doubt that if we were preparing for a Champions League semi-final in a few days instead of the UEFA the mood amongst LFC fans would be somewhat different.

I don't think Rafa is a bad manager, far from it. But I do see him (and the team) mirroring Houllier's last years. There seem to be a lot paralels. Rafa's selections, decisions, and post match comments (much like Geds) have become stranger and stranger as this season as wore on, the football has been turgid at best and the players seem to have lost belief. It's Houllier all over again and I fear it will be just as bad next season. Ged eradicated every last bit of goodwill from the fans during that final season when he was clinging onto the job by his finger nails and the fans could barely raise a cheer when the teams came out. I fear we're going down exactly the same road with Rafa next season. Listening to Rafa's comments about investment this week made me cringe a little as it seemed to me that he absolving himself from any blame for this season's failings, when I place him right at the centre of it.

I still think Madrid will come calling in the summer, they're out of Europe and Barca look favourites for the league. Rafa will probabaly go there and win the title in his first season!!!

PS. I agree with over-achieved last season however, we have underachieved (in the league) in every other season (including Rafa's first few years).

As bad as we've been at times this season, especially away from home, this team is still a million miles better than what we had to endure at the end of Houllier's reign. The two don't compare imo. Watching the likes of Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou and the likes plodding around the field whilst Gerrard basically dragged us into the CL on his own is a million miles away from what we get to watch now. Bottom line is, Houllier should never have come back after his heart problems as he was never going to be the same. It still makes me laugh to this day when people take away the achievement of Istanbul because "he won it with Houllier's team".

by **Scottbot** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:07 pm

stmichael wrote:As bad as we've been at times this season, especially away from home, this team is still a million miles better than what we had to endure at the end of Houllier's reign. The two don't compare imo. Watching the likes of Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou and the likes plodding around the field whilst Gerrard basically dragged us into the CL on his own is a million miles away from what we get to watch now. Bottom line is, Houllier should never have come back after his heart problems as he was never going to be the same. It still makes me laugh to this day when people take away the achievement of Istanbul because "he won it with Houllier's team".

I know the teamsheet reads a whole lot better than then mate but I disagree. I think the standard and style of our football this season is VERY comparable to those last two seasons under Ged. The only difference being it's the likes of Lucas, Kuyt, Insua and Ngog doing the plodding and our Captain Marvel doesn't quite have it in him to drag us over the line this time around.

PS. How good was Stevie in that final Houllier season!? Absolutely amazing, you could still argue that was his best season in a red shirt.

by **tonyeh** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:19 pm

He's been carrying the team for so long.

If there is one person at LFC at the moment who I can categorically say "loves" Liverpool...it's Steven Gerrard.

...and Jamie (of course)

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:19 pm

s@int wrote:I support the team not the manager, so it will be business as usual as far as I am concerned if he stays. I will praise him when he gets things right, criticise him when I think he is wrong and support the players.

I don't have any sort of grudge against Rafa, I think he is a good manager, but like Houllier just not quite good enough. I WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED IF HE PROVED ME WRONG and we won the league next season, but I don't believe he will.

That's fair enough. That's where we differ. I'm prepared to give him the chance. I think he's earned that right after what he did last season imo.

Personally, I will ALWAYS support LFC, win, lose or draw, but I will not support the manager with blind faith regardless of results, and more importantly PERFORMANCES. I will criticise him if I feel he has merited this criticism and this season at times he certainly has merited it. I've been really really frustrated for a lot of it (it's easily Rafa's worst season) but I don't think that just getting rid of him now is the answer, especially when making a change now with these two clowns in charge could take us even further backwards.

I do agree that he needs to change his football philosphy though, especially when it comes to DOMESTIC ENGLISH football. We need to be attacking the lesser teams, going for the throat from minute 1 to minute 95. Not playing 2 holding midfielders against teams we DOMINATE possesion against. Why do we need to protect the back four when we have the ball for 60%+ of the time?

CAN, he change? I believe so, but I won't be holding my breath.

by **shawnk** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:27 pm

You are as good as your last match, I guess same applies to your last season. And a season is a long time with 38 matches. Not to mention the CL for next season is gone as well. IMO, our next season has been partially ruined due to this one bad farking season. I just wish it's blessing in disguise so we can focus on EPL.

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