Liverpool FC Forum

by **RedBlood** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:43 pm

Owzat wrote:
stmichael wrote:When it rains it pours.

Given a choice of playing Kelly or Ayala as a replacement I'd go for Kelly. I'm still baffled as to why Ayala got the nod ahead of him at the weekend, considering Kelly's good pre-season.

I think a lot of Rafa's decisions ask more questions than they answer questions. Why hasn't he replaced Sami? Why did he wait until over 2/3 of the way through the game on Sunday to change things? Why does he pay over the odds for players? Why did he replace our "deep lying playmaker" with a £20m crock? (ironic given some dismissed re-signing Owen) Why when he had £20.3m to spend on a striker did he not sign Defoe? Has he improved the squad? I don't think so. Our best XI at the end of last season included none of his summer signings, we've since lost Arbeloa and Alonso and replaced them with a RB that might be better, but cost way too much, and a CM that might prove a good acquisition if we can get him on the pitch, but I would rather still have our playmaker.

It will be so good to have Skrtel back, we wouldn't be able to give away lots of needless fouls and corners if he weren't in the side. And he can resume his fantastic partnership with Carra, maybe he can crack Carra's jaw this time going for the same ball.

the collison was clearly carras fault, skrtel was clearing it no problem carra even looked up at him before deciding to go for it
i was watching it with 20 plus liverpool supporters and everyone agreed carra was at fault

so to but the blame on skrtel for that is ridiculous

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:02 pm

Owzat wrote:but I would rather still have our playmaker.

Well, sure...the vast majority of us would. But he wanted to leave and Rafa had little choice but to do the best he could with the situation--get top dollar for him and look for a replacement that:

1) he rated
2) wouldn't break the bank
3) hadn't already signed with City for big money despite telling all and sundry last season that he would only leave Villa for Champions League football

Yes, it's a shame that Aquilani's injured but that probably has a lot to do with point number 2 above. It should be patently clear to everyone by now that Rafa's been given virtually nothing from the owners to reinforce with this transfer window. Yet, people whinge about how little he's reinforced and/or who he's spent the money on...despite the fact that some have been saying for years that he should stop looking for bargain players and just 'spend the money on quality, FFS.' Unfortunately, so inflated is the market these days that even good-not-(yet)-great players cost in the neighbourhood of 20 million pounds. But, given our limited transfer funds, these are the players we have to look to in order to improve our team.

by **Penguins** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:04 pm

good post Bob

by **GYBS** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:12 pm

How the hell is Skrtel getting blamed for that collision ?!?! it was all Carras fault

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:35 pm

GYBS wrote:How the hell is Skrtel getting blamed for that collision ?!?! it was all Carras fault

Because Martin is a Rafa signing, whereas Carra isn't.

by **GYBS** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:17 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
GYBS wrote:How the hell is Skrtel getting blamed for that collision ?!?! it was all Carras fault

Because Martin is a Rafa signing, whereas Carra isn't.

Good point Lando and well presented and no doubt true

by **Nando26** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:12 pm

RedBlood wrote:
Owzat wrote:
stmichael wrote:When it rains it pours.

Given a choice of playing Kelly or Ayala as a replacement I'd go for Kelly. I'm still baffled as to why Ayala got the nod ahead of him at the weekend, considering Kelly's good pre-season.

I think a lot of Rafa's decisions ask more questions than they answer questions. Why hasn't he replaced Sami? Why did he wait until over 2/3 of the way through the game on Sunday to change things? Why does he pay over the odds for players? Why did he replace our "deep lying playmaker" with a £20m crock? (ironic given some dismissed re-signing Owen) Why when he had £20.3m to spend on a striker did he not sign Defoe? Has he improved the squad? I don't think so. Our best XI at the end of last season included none of his summer signings, we've since lost Arbeloa and Alonso and replaced them with a RB that might be better, but cost way too much, and a CM that might prove a good acquisition if we can get him on the pitch, but I would rather still have our playmaker.

It will be so good to have Skrtel back, we wouldn't be able to give away lots of needless fouls and corners if he weren't in the side. And he can resume his fantastic partnership with Carra, maybe he can crack Carra's jaw this time going for the same ball.

the collison was clearly carras fault, skrtel was clearing it no problem carra even looked up at him before deciding to go for it
i was watching it with 20 plus liverpool supporters and everyone agreed carra was at fault

so to but the blame on skrtel for that is ridiculous

Also id like to point out that Johnson is much better then arbeloa not a slight improvement

You havent even seen Aquiliani play so why even comment until youve seen him?

The new greek guy is meant to be a no nonsense defender who is great in the air & gets afew goals a season from corners kind of like sami

I believe with the added improvement of our youth players such as kelly insua Lucas r squad has improved from last season

so heres an idea why not try being positive for a change

Maybe try supporting Rafa

by **Nando26** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:14 pm

Oh & if you think Skrtel was in the wrong for the collision your an idiot

by **Owzat** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:53 pm

RedBlood wrote:
Owzat wrote:I think a lot of Rafa's decisions ask more questions than they answer questions. Why hasn't he replaced Sami? Why did he wait until over 2/3 of the way through the game on Sunday to change things? Why does he pay over the odds for players? Why did he replace our "deep lying playmaker" with a £20m crock? (ironic given some dismissed re-signing Owen) Why when he had £20.3m to spend on a striker did he not sign Defoe? Has he improved the squad? I don't think so. Our best XI at the end of last season included none of his summer signings, we've since lost Arbeloa and Alonso and replaced them with a RB that might be better, but cost way too much, and a CM that might prove a good acquisition if we can get him on the pitch, but I would rather still have our playmaker.

It will be so good to have Skrtel back, we wouldn't be able to give away lots of needless fouls and corners if he weren't in the side. And he can resume his fantastic partnership with Carra, maybe he can crack Carra's jaw this time going for the same ball.

the collison was clearly carras fault, skrtel was clearing it no problem carra even looked up at him before deciding to go for it
i was watching it with 20 plus liverpool supporters and everyone agreed carra was at fault

so to but the blame on skrtel for that is ridiculous

I didn't say he did, fecknose where you dreamed up the interpretation I did. All I said was maybe Skrtel can break Carra's jaw going for the same ball, if anything I'd say that was doing to Carra what Carra did to him and therefore the opposite of your interpretation.

But then I doubt you have anything better to do than have goes at people

by **Owzat** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:57 pm

Nando26 wrote:
RedBlood wrote:
Owzat wrote:
stmichael wrote:When it rains it pours.

Given a choice of playing Kelly or Ayala as a replacement I'd go for Kelly. I'm still baffled as to why Ayala got the nod ahead of him at the weekend, considering Kelly's good pre-season.

I think a lot of Rafa's decisions ask more questions than they answer questions. Why hasn't he replaced Sami? Why did he wait until over 2/3 of the way through the game on Sunday to change things? Why does he pay over the odds for players? Why did he replace our "deep lying playmaker" with a £20m crock? (ironic given some dismissed re-signing Owen) Why when he had £20.3m to spend on a striker did he not sign Defoe? Has he improved the squad? I don't think so. Our best XI at the end of last season included none of his summer signings, we've since lost Arbeloa and Alonso and replaced them with a RB that might be better, but cost way too much, and a CM that might prove a good acquisition if we can get him on the pitch, but I would rather still have our playmaker.

It will be so good to have Skrtel back, we wouldn't be able to give away lots of needless fouls and corners if he weren't in the side. And he can resume his fantastic partnership with Carra, maybe he can crack Carra's jaw this time going for the same ball.

the collison was clearly carras fault, skrtel was clearing it no problem carra even looked up at him before deciding to go for it
i was watching it with 20 plus liverpool supporters and everyone agreed carra was at fault

so to but the blame on skrtel for that is ridiculous

Also id like to point out that Johnson is much better then arbeloa not a slight improvement

You havent even seen Aquiliani play so why even comment until youve seen him?

The new greek guy is meant to be a no nonsense defender who is great in the air & gets afew goals a season from corners kind of like sami

I believe with the added improvement of our youth players such as kelly insua Lucas r squad has improved from last season

so heres an idea why not try being positive for a change

Maybe try supporting Rafa

Seems like idiots have made hay in my absence with some bizarre interpretations.

I didn't say it was Skrtel's fault - duh. I didn't say someone was a slight improvement, in both cases I said they MIGHT be an improvement, defensively we can't judge re Johnson and we can't judge re Aquilani because he hasn't played yet.

Get a clue the lot of you, one person misinterprets and there's a bunch of bandwagoners telling me what I am sure I have stated myself which is it was Skrtel's ball to clear and never once blamed Skrtel.

by **Owzat** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:57 pm

Nando26 wrote:Oh & if you think Skrtel was in the wrong for the collision your an idiot

Maybe so, but for fact it is certain that if you think I said it was, then YOU'RE an idiot.

by **Owzat** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:04 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Owzat wrote:but I would rather still have our playmaker.

Well, sure...the vast majority of us would. But he wanted to leave and Rafa had little choice but to do the best he could with the situation--get top dollar for him and look for a replacement that:

1) he rated
2) wouldn't break the bank
3) hadn't already signed with City for big money despite telling all and sundry last season that he would only leave Villa for Champions League football

Yes, it's a shame that Aquilani's injured but that probably has a lot to do with point number 2 above. It should be patently clear to everyone by now that Rafa's been given virtually nothing from the owners to reinforce with this transfer window. Yet, people whinge about how little he's reinforced and/or who he's spent the money on...despite the fact that some have been saying for years that he should stop looking for bargain players and just 'spend the money on quality, FFS.' Unfortunately, so inflated is the market these days that even good-not-(yet)-great players cost in the neighbourhood of 20 million pounds. But, given our limited transfer funds, these are the players we have to look to in order to improve our team.

Fair enough re Alonso, but to say he's had "virtually no money" when he's spent £37.5m this summer and more or less the same last summer is hardly correct now is it? Players don't have to cost £15m+ a time, I think the fans and manager alike have become too accustomed to his spending. Before Rafa arrived the biggest spending was Cisse at £14m, he's already spent more than that on Johnson, Mascherano, Keane, Torres and Aquilani.

And he's also spent plenty of money in the past, didn't he spend £60m or £70 only a few seasons back? It would be nice if we had unlimited funds, but we don't. My point is doesn't Rafa spend to his budget or blow it all quickly on a few players and then everyone moans that he's no money left?

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:16 pm

Owzat wrote:Before Rafa arrived the biggest spending was Cisse at £14m, he's already spent more than that on Johnson, Mascherano, Keane, Torres and Aquilani.

Okay but we first of all need to adjust for inflation. Players cost more across the board than they did in 2004 and so comparing transfer fees is a bit of a mug's game.

Second, we have to apply the 'you get what you pay for' principle to a certain degree. Yes, Rafa paid more for Torres than Cisse but I don't think anyone would argue with the wisdom of doing so. Quality costs money...even if it is quality that is still blossoming (as would seem to be the case with Johnson and, hopefully, Aquilani).

I'm not saying Rafa hasn't made mistakes in the transfer market. Of course he has--all managers do. What I am saying is that, for a team that finished so close last season and is trying to clear that final hurdle this season, spending a couple of million here or there on bargain buys and stop-gaps is not generally the recipe for success. That goes double when we lose a nailed on starter and key performer in a vital position. Rafa had no choice but to replace Alonso and I think he was right to look to a potentially top class player to do so--especially with Barry swerving us for City. Sure, we could have spent a tenner on the likes of Kevin Nolan and earmarked the rest of the Alonso money for other areas of the team but would that have been a wise use of funds? Not for me, no.

by **Zidane** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:34 pm

People are moaning about the money because Rafa was still supposed to have more left not cause he overspent. And like Bob said comparing old prices to current ones isn't a good way to go about it. Madrid just paid almost double the amount of the largest transfer fee ever for Ronaldo. I think all in all this transfer window was a good one for us and could have been much much better imo had Barry not gone to City and had the owners not lied about Rafa's funds. Barry, Johnson and Silva may have been a possibility had that been the case.

by **Greavesie** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:51 pm

if we're going to look at our own transfer fees paid out over the years surely we should look at our rivals' spending as well. Man U broke their spending record on £30.75m Berbaw@nk

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