Liverpool FC Forum

by **fivecups** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:21 pm

Bad Bob wrote:The skinny on Lucas (IMHO):

World beater?

Potential world beater?

Good player to partner Masch in the engine room?

Utter sh!te?

A tidy player who can do a job at CM when partnered with someone more creative/expansive?

There were more of those flashes last weekend. A few passes and one shot which was saved but his technique was excellent, hit quickly with power. He looked much better against Burnley, more confident and happier playing beside Gerrard (I hold my hands up on that one) and he seems to be developing an understanding with our other important players. He still needs to be more involved in the general play but we still don't know what Lucas will be like with a regular run in the first team, confidence and a developed understanding with the rest of the players. It may be that he doesn't get any better but it's just possible that he could do a Kuyt over the next season or two, I'm enjoying seeing how it pans out anyway.

by **sgs** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:33 pm

bigmick wrote:Bob's on the button. As I said earlier, he did a decent job against Burnley. My guess is he'll do a decent job in pretty much every game he plays, provided you don't ask him to do something which he isn't capable of. Stick him in next to Gerrard and ask him to fetch and carry the water, and he'll do a decent job. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just to return to GYBS's post though briefly, he mentioned that Lucas does the same job as "Fletcher, Anderson and Mikel". He kind of does, but he isn't as good a player as any of those three in my opinion anyway, although he'd be closest in ability to Mikel.

He did a decent job though at being the holding midfielder against Burnley. It is worth remembering that this was the first match where he was actually asked to do that job, and he is fairly obviously best suited to this role. Like most other central midfielders in the Premiership though I guess, stick him alongside Gerrard and he looks fine.

This is precisely the kind of half arsed analysis that one has come to expect...

Any player would not do well in 'something he is not capable of'...I mean talk about an oxymoron...

2ndly, simply playing beside Gerrard is no guarantee of success; you would still have to fulfill whatever role assigned you, which until recently even Lampard was struggling to achieve next to StevieG in the England setup...

by **boodiddy1** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:18 pm

Granted that Lucas isn't ever going to be as expansive as stevie or as good a passer as xabi, but, why do we seem to pick every year a player out for stick?

Kuyt a couple of years ago, (xabi too 06-07) yossi beginning of last year etc.

Now Lucas is getting it thick. FFS he's only 22, did not cost much in todays market. yet, some on here and at the matches are expecting miracles.
Big Mick stated that at the side of gerrard if you ask him to go and fetch and carry, he'll carry it out to the card. Well, Deschamps, Dunga and makalele did that and people raved about them. Yet, with time and him developing physically and mentally to domestic game, then we have could well have our ready made replacement for Mascherano.

Now, i say that as it looks likely he'll be off at the end of season to Barca. However, if masc stays, then its one more years experience for Lucas. Now, the scum fans like to pick out carrick and fletcher for stick. Yet, look at their success recently. We all thought it would be hargreaves who'd shine their. Lucas is probably on par with fletcher with the ability to become better. When you hear the senior members of our squad, especially stevie, you get the impression that in training there are enough qualities shown to suggest that he'll be a good player for us.

Alot mention that he's been quite good against the weaker sides (Bolton,Burnley,Stoke), yet these teams like to get physical and rough. A couple of years ago, even last year, Lucas would have gone missing. So, there's improvement.

I ain't his biggest fan, but lets give him time. Our moans are more to do with looking for someone to take the heat of stevie, nando, etc. Now, the Aquaman might help us there. Babel should, but NEVER will.

Lucas, if he keeps trying, will become a key player for us. If he gets to Dunga or deschamps level, then i for one will be happy. 6m will look like a snip.

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:59 pm

sgs wrote:
bigmick wrote:Bob's on the button. As I said earlier, he did a decent job against Burnley. My guess is he'll do a decent job in pretty much every game he plays, provided you don't ask him to do something which he isn't capable of. Stick him in next to Gerrard and ask him to fetch and carry the water, and he'll do a decent job. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just to return to GYBS's post though briefly, he mentioned that Lucas does the same job as "Fletcher, Anderson and Mikel". He kind of does, but he isn't as good a player as any of those three in my opinion anyway, although he'd be closest in ability to Mikel.

He did a decent job though at being the holding midfielder against Burnley. It is worth remembering that this was the first match where he was actually asked to do that job, and he is fairly obviously best suited to this role. Like most other central midfielders in the Premiership though I guess, stick him alongside Gerrard and he looks fine.

This is precisely the kind of half arsed analysis that one has come to expect...

Any player would not do well in 'something he is not capable of'...I mean talk about an oxymoron...

2ndly, simply playing beside Gerrard is no guarantee of success; you would still have to fulfill whatever role assigned you, which until recently even Lampard was struggling to achieve next to StevieG in the England setup...

I give up fella with you :laugh:

We'll just have to agree to differ. You call my "analysis" half ersed, and I have my opinion on your knowledge of the game of Association Football, I'll leave it at that :lookaround

.

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:03 pm

boodiddy1 wrote:Lucas, if he keeps trying, will become a key player for us. If he gets to Dunga or deschamps level, then i for one will be happy. 6m will look like a snip.

I liked the post mate but just quoted this bit. I like your optimism that he "will" become a key player for us, there's a possibility but right now I'd guess that he probably won't. We'll see on that.

As for the comment that if he becomes another Dunga or Deschamps you'll be happy. So will I (and no doubt so will he) but as they were absolutely top drawer World Class players, I'm a bit more certain that he won't develop to that level.

A more realistic aspiration I think is that he gets himself up to a Darren Fletcher kind of standard sometime soon. Hopefully over the next couple of seasons he may even get there and beyond it, time will obviously tell.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:43 pm

Cant stop laughin at this picture :laugh:

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:45 pm

Ciggy wrote:Cant stop laughin at this picture

He looks like the man in the mask :laugh:

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:06 pm

Fecking molars on it :laugh:

by **baldricks_cunning_plan** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:06 am

Lucas' best game of the season was against Burnley when partnered with Stevie.
Gerrard's best game of the season was against Burnley when partnered with Lucas.
The team's best performance was against Burnley with Stevie and Lucas in the middle.

Now whether you wanna say "oh it's only Burnley", truth of the matter is you can only beat what's in front of you. We battered Burnley from start to finish with Stevie dominating and Lucas doing a very tidy, yet quiet, job. I'd give that partnership more time to blossom and leave Mascherano out because Masch hasn't performed well at all this year and for most of last season he looked below par.

Lucas gives us better options than Masch, though the Argentine is a better tackler that's about all he is better at. Lucas is better with the ball, Lucas gets forward more, he's better in the air, Lucas actually moves outside of his own half.

So I'd tell Mascherano to wait for his place and allow the partnership between Stevie and Lucas to continue.

by **Rush Job** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:46 am

baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:Lucas' best game of the season was against Burnley when partnered with Stevie.
Gerrard's best game of the season was against Burnley when partnered with Lucas.
The team's best performance was against Burnley with Stevie and Lucas in the middle.

Now whether you wanna say "oh it's only Burnley", truth of the matter is you can only beat what's in front of you. We battered Burnley from start to finish with Stevie dominating and Lucas doing a very tidy, yet quiet, job. I'd give that partnership more time to blossom and leave Mascherano out because Masch hasn't performed well at all this year and for most of last season he looked below par.

Lucas gives us better options than Masch, though the Argentine is a better tackler that's about all he is better at. Lucas is better with the ball, Lucas gets forward more, he's better in the air, Lucas actually moves outside of his own half.

So I'd tell Mascherano to wait for his place and allow the partnership between Stevie and Lucas to continue.

Add to that Yossi got a hatrick playing off Torres and its hard not to go with that.
JM has been kak so far, Ive been really dissapointed with his attitude and unless he`s willing to start putting in a proper shift then I`d have no problem leaving him on the bench.

by **Bammo** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:20 am

Mirror

Lucas: Rafa's patience has saved my Liverpool career
Published 23:39 15/09/09 By David Maddock (1) Recommend (1)

Brazilian Lucas believes that only the patience and indulgence of manager Rafa Benitez has saved his Anfield career.

The midfielder, who has finally begun to justify the faith shown by the Liverpool coach, explained yesterday that he suffered some dark times that could have shattered his confidence and forced him out of the club.

But even in his bleakest moments, Benitez supported him, and expressed the confidence that he had the talent to prove he can become one of the finest midfielders in world football.

Lucas has become an automatic choice at Anfield, and even the fans who used to boo him have begun to accept he could just be the man to replace the departed Xabi Alonso.

Yet as he lines up tonight against Hungarian side Debrecen in the opening round of Champions’ League side, Lucas explained that it wasn’t always that way.

“The manager has given me incredible support and confidence. If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t be here at Liverpool any more,” the Brazil international conceded.

“There were times when the fans turned against me, and that made moments where I doubted myself. But he said he believed in me and my ability, he told me to keep going and get through it, and I took confidence from that.

“In the end, it made me a stronger person. I am mentally and physically stronger now after what has happened. I remember I played against Fulham last season and was booed, probably because I replaced Xabi for that game and the team didn’t play well.

“I was sent off against Everton too, and they were difficult times. But now I try to understand the fans, and I understand that you can sometimes play badly in football as well as play well.

“I scored an own goal at the start of the season against Aston Villa, but because I have confidence and the mental strength from the experience I have had, I knew that these things happen, you have to accept them and deal with them and keep working.”

Benitez has never had any doubts in the midfielder, and he believes that as an all-round package he has the potential to offer as much as anyone in the Premier League, and the talent to replace even a player as popular as Alonso.

Lucas was voted Brazil’s player of the season when he was just 19, and was made captain of his home town club, before starring for his country in World under-19 Championships and the Olympics.

Liverpool stole in to sign him just 24 hours before a Manchester United delegation was due to arrive in Brazil to confirm his signature, and the Anfield boss believes that he will eventually show just why he was regarded as the greatest young talent in that supremely talented footballing nation.

“What he has is an all round ability. He can shoot, head, pass, run, create and score. He is not a 10 out of 10 in any of those, but he is close to 10 in all, and when he puts them all together he has the capacity to be a very fine player,” Benitez said.

“I have never had any doubts about him. He was the best player in his entire country at 19, and it was just a question of him adapting to the pace and physical strength of the Premier League.”

Lucas has done that by putting on 4 kilos over the past two years, and now he is ready to take a step forward. “I have worked to put on the weight, and I feel I am getting better and better. I am happy and I want to be an important player in Liverpool’s history.”

by **heimdall** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:26 am

Ciggy wrote:Cant stop laughin at this picture

Which picture?

by **heimdall** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:34 am

Rush Job wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:Lucas' best game of the season was against Burnley when partnered with Stevie.
Gerrard's best game of the season was against Burnley when partnered with Lucas.
The team's best performance was against Burnley with Stevie and Lucas in the middle.

Now whether you wanna say "oh it's only Burnley", truth of the matter is you can only beat what's in front of you. We battered Burnley from start to finish with Stevie dominating and Lucas doing a very tidy, yet quiet, job. I'd give that partnership more time to blossom and leave Mascherano out because Masch hasn't performed well at all this year and for most of last season he looked below par.

Lucas gives us better options than Masch, though the Argentine is a better tackler that's about all he is better at. Lucas is better with the ball, Lucas gets forward more, he's better in the air, Lucas actually moves outside of his own half.

So I'd tell Mascherano to wait for his place and allow the partnership between Stevie and Lucas to continue.

Add to that Yossi got a hatrick playing off Torres and its hard not to go with that.
JM has been kak so far, Ive been really dissapointed with his attitude and unless he`s willing to start putting in a proper shift then I`d have no problem leaving him on the bench.

I agree with both of you, at the moment Lucas seems the better option although I still don't rate him that highly. His attitude seems much better than Mascha's though.

by **Nando26** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:38 am

Ciggy wrote:Cant stop laughin at this picture

whats nando doing to him?

by **Nando26** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:44 am

Bammo wrote:Mirror

Lucas: Rafa's patience has saved my Liverpool career
Published 23:39 15/09/09 By David Maddock (1) Recommend (1)

Brazilian Lucas believes that only the patience and indulgence of manager Rafa Benitez has saved his Anfield career.

The midfielder, who has finally begun to justify the faith shown by the Liverpool coach, explained yesterday that he suffered some dark times that could have shattered his confidence and forced him out of the club.

But even in his bleakest moments, Benitez supported him, and expressed the confidence that he had the talent to prove he can become one of the finest midfielders in world football.

Lucas has become an automatic choice at Anfield, and even the fans who used to boo him have begun to accept he could just be the man to replace the departed Xabi Alonso.

Yet as he lines up tonight against Hungarian side Debrecen in the opening round of Champions’ League side, Lucas explained that it wasn’t always that way.

“The manager has given me incredible support and confidence. If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t be here at Liverpool any more,” the Brazil international conceded.

“There were times when the fans turned against me, and that made moments where I doubted myself. But he said he believed in me and my ability, he told me to keep going and get through it, and I took confidence from that.

“In the end, it made me a stronger person. I am mentally and physically stronger now after what has happened. I remember I played against Fulham last season and was booed, probably because I replaced Xabi for that game and the team didn’t play well.

“I was sent off against Everton too, and they were difficult times. But now I try to understand the fans, and I understand that you can sometimes play badly in football as well as play well.

“I scored an own goal at the start of the season against Aston Villa, but because I have confidence and the mental strength from the experience I have had, I knew that these things happen, you have to accept them and deal with them and keep working.”

Benitez has never had any doubts in the midfielder, and he believes that as an all-round package he has the potential to offer as much as anyone in the Premier League, and the talent to replace even a player as popular as Alonso.

Lucas was voted Brazil’s player of the season when he was just 19, and was made captain of his home town club, before starring for his country in World under-19 Championships and the Olympics.

Liverpool stole in to sign him just 24 hours before a Manchester United delegation was due to arrive in Brazil to confirm his signature, and the Anfield boss believes that he will eventually show just why he was regarded as the greatest young talent in that supremely talented footballing nation.

“What he has is an all round ability. He can shoot, head, pass, run, create and score. He is not a 10 out of 10 in any of those, but he is close to 10 in all, and when he puts them all together he has the capacity to be a very fine player,” Benitez said.

“I have never had any doubts about him. He was the best player in his entire country at 19, and it was just a question of him adapting to the pace and physical strength of the Premier League.”

Lucas has done that by putting on 4 kilos over the past two years, and now he is ready to take a step forward. “I have worked to put on the weight, and I feel I am getting better and better. I am happy and I want to be an important player in Liverpool’s history.”

Good on the lad i really hope he makes it for all the :censored:

hes had to deal with. The so called supporters who booed him shold be ashamed personally id never do it but i guess they know whats best for the club

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