Liverpool FC Forum

[Kukilon]

I liked what I saw of Plessis last season so I'm kinda of suprised that we haven't seen lots of him now when Leiva has been playing. Lucas has done a descent job but nothing more.

[sgs]

I actually thought Lucas offered little against Burnley, but having said that he didn't really need to so it didn't matter. I'd read that he'd been a bit of a revelation before I watched the match, but his contribution was no different from what it was in the previous games from what I could see. By that I mean he was tidy, rarely gave the ball away, got his foot in etc etc but contributed nothing from an attacking point of view save for a speculative shot from distance.

Now the attacking part of the thing didn't matter against Burnley for two reasons. Firstly because they are sh!t, and secondly because he had Gerrard playing alongside him who did/does all that side of the game in spades and provides more than enough impetus for two people. As some of us have been saying for a bit now, if you don't ask Lucas to be the main ball distributer and the main pivot for our attacking play from centralk midfield, then he is OK. Ask him to run about a bit, get his foot in, knock it when he gets it, move the ball, fill the spaces and all that stuff and he'll do it in a Lee Carsleyesque kind of way. Ask him to do more than that, and his inadequacy will be graphically illustrated.

In short, play him in central midfield alongside Gerrard and he looks OK. Mind you, you could probably say that about pretty much every central midfielder in the Premiership but that's the way it is.

Except Lucas was asked to do a specific role, and one in which he performed very well in, and which in turn enabled Gerard the freedom to push forward, and the likes of Kuyt and Yossi to fully exploit the spaces Burnley allowed.

You can only assess a player by the demands of and his performance of the role assigned him, not what we in our fantasies think he would do in an imaginary role that was never assigned him, and was not required in a particular game.

It is this kind of 'creative' license in first formulating a role that never existed, and then criticizing a player for how he would perform in such role that simply makes me marvel at these pages sometimes...

[DrPepe]

I actually thought Lucas offered little against Burnley, but having said that he didn't really need to so it didn't matter. I'd read that he'd been a bit of a revelation before I watched the match, but his contribution was no different from what it was in the previous games from what I could see. By that I mean he was tidy, rarely gave the ball away, got his foot in etc etc but contributed nothing from an attacking point of view save for a speculative shot from distance.

Now the attacking part of the thing didn't matter against Burnley for two reasons. Firstly because they are sh!t, and secondly because he had Gerrard playing alongside him who did/does all that side of the game in spades and provides more than enough impetus for two people. As some of us have been saying for a bit now, if you don't ask Lucas to be the main ball distributer and the main pivot for our attacking play from centralk midfield, then he is OK. Ask him to run about a bit, get his foot in, knock it when he gets it, move the ball, fill the spaces and all that stuff and he'll do it in a Lee Carsleyesque kind of way. Ask him to do more than that, and his inadequacy will be graphically illustrated.

In short, play him in central midfield alongside Gerrard and he looks OK. Mind you, you could probably say that about pretty much every central midfielder in the Premiership but that's the way it is.

Except Lucas was asked to do a specific role, and one in which he performed very well in, and which in turn enabled Gerard the freedom to push forward, and the likes of Kuyt and Yossi to fully exploit the spaces Burnley allowed.

You can only assess a player by the demands of and his performance of the role assigned him, not what we in our fantasies think he would do in an imaginary role that was never assigned him, and was not required in a particular game.

It is this kind of 'creative' license in first formulating a role that never existed, and then criticizing a player for how he would perform in such role that simply makes me marvel at these pages sometimes...

the role itself is limited, by definition. It requires discipline that many players don't have and lucas seems very well suited to it - he had a good game.

I guess the big question is whether he could replace mascher in the DM role consistently , and in the really big games? (he may have to after next summer).

[REDTILLDEAD]

i was down the pub chatting to some mates, and we really couldnt work out if Lucas is better than Biscan...

thats easy to answer....he's not!!....even danny murphy is still better than Lucas today!!

[redhayesy]

The one thing i can say about Lucas is that he is a tidy player, he doesnt really give possesion away that often which Spearing does often.

how many ressy games have you watched in the past mate! at least jay fights for the ball in the first place, to have a chance of weather he gives possesion away,to which his distribution of the ball is better than Lucas in that respect anyway.

[DrPepe]

The one thing i can say about Lucas is that he is a tidy player, he doesnt really give possesion away that often which Spearing does often.

how many ressy games have you watched in the past mate! at least jay fights for the ball in the first place, to have a chance of weather he gives possesion away,to which his distribution of the ball is better than Lucas in that respect anyway.

in fairness the standard is much, much, much lower for spearing compared to lucas

v hard to transfer his "obvious" quality in the reserves to the prem.

Lucas'  level of involvement in the game (based on objective measures; pass counts, tackles etc) suggests he 's fighting... 

[Fauxy]

The one thing i can say about Lucas is that he is a tidy player, he doesnt really give possesion away that often which Spearing does often.

how many ressy games have you watched in the past mate! at least jay fights for the ball in the first place, to have a chance of weather he gives possesion away,to which his distribution of the ball is better than Lucas in that respect anyway.

Well you dont see Lucas fighting for the ball as much because he doesnt loose it as much i guess    And Lucas is a much better distributor

[bigmick]

I actually thought Lucas offered little against Burnley, but having said that he didn't really need to so it didn't matter. I'd read that he'd been a bit of a revelation before I watched the match, but his contribution was no different from what it was in the previous games from what I could see. By that I mean he was tidy, rarely gave the ball away, got his foot in etc etc but contributed nothing from an attacking point of view save for a speculative shot from distance.

Now the attacking part of the thing didn't matter against Burnley for two reasons. Firstly because they are sh!t, and secondly because he had Gerrard playing alongside him who did/does all that side of the game in spades and provides more than enough impetus for two people. As some of us have been saying for a bit now, if you don't ask Lucas to be the main ball distributer and the main pivot for our attacking play from centralk midfield, then he is OK. Ask him to run about a bit, get his foot in, knock it when he gets it, move the ball, fill the spaces and all that stuff and he'll do it in a Lee Carsleyesque kind of way. Ask him to do more than that, and his inadequacy will be graphically illustrated.

In short, play him in central midfield alongside Gerrard and he looks OK. Mind you, you could probably say that about pretty much every central midfielder in the Premiership but that's the way it is.

Except Lucas was asked to do a specific role, and one in which he performed very well in, and which in turn enabled Gerard the freedom to push forward, and the likes of Kuyt and Yossi to fully exploit the spaces Burnley allowed.

You can only assess a player by the demands of and his performance of the role assigned him, not what we in our fantasies think he would do in an imaginary role that was never assigned him, and was not required in a particular game.

It is this kind of 'creative' license in first formulating a role that never existed, and then criticizing a player for how he would perform in such role that simply makes me marvel at these pages sometimes...

"Except" he was asked to perform a specific role . Yes I know that's why I said if you 'ask" him to put his foot in, keep it moving etc he'll do it in a Lee Carslayesque kind of way. Didn't you read that bit? More specifically, he WASN'T ASKED to perform a specific role for which he is patently obviously unsuited for.

He did OK and was tidy, as in fairness to him he has been in every single other game he played for Liverpool in the last 18 months. He didn't play any better or worse against Burnley than he had in the previous matches, he simply did what he does. Fortunately on this occasion, what he does was fine because Gerrard does all the rest as well as his own job.

Your line about the way in which Lucas played "enabled" Gerard to do what he did is an interesting take on events . That you then go on to talk about people "imagining things" and having "creative licence" makes me wonder if you are practicising your irony on me. If you are it's coming along very well.

[Number 9]

The one thing i can say about Lucas is that he is a tidy player, he doesnt really give possesion away that often which Spearing does often.

I really hope this is sarcasm!

Lucas gives the ball away as if its a hot potato,he also commits silly fouls and scores for the other team.
I want nothing more than the lad to do well,but ffs we cant condone his actions on the pitch.

A bad player does feck all for the team...Lucas does feck all and also helps our opponents,I really feel for the guy..he is out of his depth.

[redhayesy]

i agree with you mate,i also want him to do well- but totally agree he is out of his depth.

[sgs]

I actually thought Lucas offered little against Burnley, but having said that he didn't really need to so it didn't matter. I'd read that he'd been a bit of a revelation before I watched the match, but his contribution was no different from what it was in the previous games from what I could see. By that I mean he was tidy, rarely gave the ball away, got his foot in etc etc but contributed nothing from an attacking point of view save for a speculative shot from distance.

Now the attacking part of the thing didn't matter against Burnley for two reasons. Firstly because they are sh!t, and secondly because he had Gerrard playing alongside him who did/does all that side of the game in spades and provides more than enough impetus for two people. As some of us have been saying for a bit now, if you don't ask Lucas to be the main ball distributer and the main pivot for our attacking play from centralk midfield, then he is OK. Ask him to run about a bit, get his foot in, knock it when he gets it, move the ball, fill the spaces and all that stuff and he'll do it in a Lee Carsleyesque kind of way. Ask him to do more than that, and his inadequacy will be graphically illustrated.

In short, play him in central midfield alongside Gerrard and he looks OK. Mind you, you could probably say that about pretty much every central midfielder in the Premiership but that's the way it is.

Except Lucas was asked to do a specific role, and one in which he performed very well in, and which in turn enabled Gerard the freedom to push forward, and the likes of Kuyt and Yossi to fully exploit the spaces Burnley allowed.

You can only assess a player by the demands of and his performance of the role assigned him, not what we in our fantasies think he would do in an imaginary role that was never assigned him, and was not required in a particular game.

It is this kind of 'creative' license in first formulating a role that never existed, and then criticizing a player for how he would perform in such role that simply makes me marvel at these pages sometimes...

"Except" he was asked to perform a specific role . Yes I know that's why I said if you 'ask" him to put his foot in, keep it moving etc he'll do it in a Lee Carslayesque kind of way. Didn't you read that bit? More specifically, he WASN'T ASKED to perform a specific role for which he is patently obviously unsuited for.

He did OK and was tidy, as in fairness to him he has been in every single other game he played for Liverpool in the last 18 months. He didn't play any better or worse against Burnley than he had in the previous matches, he simply did what he does. Fortunately on this occasion, what he does was fine because Gerrard does all the rest as well as his own job.

Your line about the way in which Lucas played "enabled" Gerard to do what he did is an interesting take on events . That you then go on to talk about people "imagining things" and having "creative licence" makes me wonder if you are practicising your irony on me. If you are it's coming along very well.

RAFA BENITEZ:
"Lucas supported and managed in the middle and kept everyone else going forward," said the Spaniard.
 
"For me he was the key player today. We can talk about Yossi but it was thanks to Lucas. One thing everyone told me when I came here was that if you work hard the fans are with you.
 
"They could see again today that Lucas is a worker who has quality. He can challenge in the air, tackle and pass the ball.
 
"He worked so hard in different positions and allowed the other players more freedom. For me he was a very important player for us today."



BTW, there is nothing ironic about the comments above by Rafa...You can only disguise ignorance by so many ways...

[bigmick]

Well in my humble opinion, if Rafa genuinely believes that Lucas was "the key player" against Burnley, he is talking b0ll0cks I understand why he's doing it, because he wants to build the player up and also partly I suspect because he wants to justify his support of the fella, but whichever way you look at it it's b0ll0cks.

Now I know that you will no doubt be one of the "how can a Plummer [sic], cocktail barman, Dildo seller possibly know more about football than the manager?" school of thought, and that's fine .

If Rafa genuinely thinks Lucas was our "key" player against Burnley, he is clueless (he does't and isn't of course). If you believe that either Rafa truly believes that, or even if you truly believe that yourself, well we'll just have to agree to differ I'm afraid .

[DrPepe]

as is rafa's way , he gives a player a specific set of instructions and if on the pitch that player carries them out pretty much as ordered then the boss is happy...

against burnley, lucas did his job effectively and without fuss , can't fault him for that

is a team game with differnt roles, so we can't have 10 bennyouns on the pitch (cos we'd probably get a beating)

[bigmick]

as is rafa's way , he gives a player a specific set of instructions and if on the pitch that player carries them our pretty much as ordered then the boss is happy...

No argument there, and as I've said a few times now, Lucas did what he normally does, was tidy, got a foot in, filled the spaces etc. He did OK, did his job and as I said earlier, if he plays alongside Gerrard all the time he'll do his job every game. No problem with any of that.

To suggesst though that he was the "key" player in the performance is palpably ridiculous. I honestly don't give a feck whether Rafa said it or not, it's bonkers .



It's already becoming clear that Lucas is the new Kuyt. You simply cannot have a sensible football discussion about him (it doesn't even matter if you say he did Ok, if he's always tidy etc etc) without somebody making a ridiculously outlandish claim as to his abilities. Just like Kuyt was the best right winger in the Premiership, Rafa is Bill Shankly reincarnated, Lucas is going to be the new Lothar Mathieus.


He was given the job of being the holder, and he did a decent job, against Burnley who barely crossed the half way line. You could argue that's because he did his job so well (if you were clueless), or you could more sensibly argue that it's hardly his fault if Burnley didn't attack much, so therefore he didn't get chance to shine. The second one is the truth, but just like Pepe Reina wasn't the "key" player against Burnley (as if we needed one FFS), neither was our defensive midfielder either.

[Bammo]

I really hope this is sarcasm!

Lucas gives the ball away as if its a hot potato,he also commits silly fouls and scores for the other team.
I want nothing more than the lad to do well,but ffs we cant condone his actions on the pitch.

A bad player does feck all for the team...Lucas does feck all and also helps our opponents,I really feel for the guy..he is out of his depth.

Have a look here so you actually learn the facts about Lucas giving the ball away (or not as the truth actually is):

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