Liverpool FC Forum

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:34 pm

wiki link

Because Fiorentina, Atletico Madrid, and Stuttgart were the teams from Italy,Spain, and Germany, and they have relatively low coefficients for teams from big leagues, it is likely that all three of them will be in the pot to face Arsenal.

team rankings for seeding

In the round before Arsenal plays, there are 5 matches between 10 runner up or 3rd place teams from smaller leagues, and the winners go into the non-champions route to the group stages. It is likely that the following 5 seeded teams will advance:
Ukraine - Shakhtar Donetsk
Portugal - Sporting CP
Greece - Panathinaikos
Scotland - Celtic
Belgium - Anderlecht

the teams that they will be drawn against are:
Czech Republic - Sparta Prague
Romania - Dinamo Bucuresti
Netherlands - Twente
Russia- Dynamo Moscow
Turkey - Sivasspor

If everything plays out to odds, Arsenal will draw one of the following 5:
Fiorentina
Atletico Madrid
Stuttgart
Celtic
Anderlecht

I am pretty sure Liverpool will get more CL money if Arsenal do not qualify for the group stages, but not 100% sure.

by **Sabre** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:44 pm

I am pretty sure Liverpool will get more CL money if Arsenal do not qualify for the group stages, but not 100% sure.

Why would it that be? I know little about the CL organisation, but I thought clubs got money for results. A victory and a draw would mean extra money. But I never heard the money depended on how many participants of your contry played.

An Arsenal - Atletico Madrid at that stage of the year would be a very unpredictable game. Glad we don't have to get through them. They gave us a tough night at Anfield the fúckers.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:24 am

Sabre wrote:
I am pretty sure Liverpool will get more CL money if Arsenal do not qualify for the group stages, but not 100% sure.

Why would it that be? I know little about the CL organisation, but I thought clubs got money for results. A victory and a draw would mean extra money. But I never heard the money depended on how many participants of your contry played.

An Arsenal - Atletico Madrid at that stage of the year would be a very unpredictable game. Glad we don't have to get through them. They gave us a tough night at Anfield the fúckers.

well yes the results have a big effect too

link

-------------------------------------------------------------------
4 teams 3 teams 2 teams 1 team
--------------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Champions 40% 45% 55% 100%
Runners-up 30% 35% 45%
No. 3 15% 20%
No. 4 15%
-------------------------------------------------------------------

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:54 am

Another Champions League issue in the summer that might bring up some talking points in the Champions League Squad, and the 4+4 rule that gets a lot of play, and ruled out Hyypia for the group stages.

To review. All clubs in European competition have to register a list of players. The maximum amount of players on this list is 25. Of those 25, at least 8 slots have to be reserved for players that trained in England for 3 years before they turned 21. OF THOSE 8, AT LEAST 4 of those slots have to be reserved for players who trained at LFC for 3 years before they turned 21. These slots are use them or lose them, there is no penalty for not filling them other than not being able register a full 25 man squad.

If you had a team of all English players, but no LFC trained players, you could only have 21 players on the CL roster.

HOWEVER, there is another way you can register players for the Champions League. It is called the B list. You are allowed to register as many players on the B list that you can, and there are no playing restrictions for B list players. You could start a match with an entire B list XI and 7 B list players on the bench if you wanted. The rules to get on the B list are:
Been at the club for 2 years
Born after 1 January 1988 (will be 1989 for next season, and '90 for year after and so on)

This means we will be able to register:
1988:
Adam Hammill
Stephen Darby
Jay Spearing
Damien Plessis
1989 10/11 CL:
Emiliano Insua
Ronald Huth
Mikel San Jose
Krisztian Nemeth
1990 11/12:
Martin Kelly
Peter Gulacsi*
Steve Irwin
Dani Ayala
Nathan Eccleston
Dean Bouzanis*
1991 12/13:
Dani Pacheco
Gerardo Bruna
Alexander Kacaniklic
David Amoo
Adam Pepper

* originally a part of loan deals and I don't know how those apply

Domestic Association Trained
David Martin (could be sold to Leicester City)

Club Trained
Gerrard
Carra

Even if we don't sign any English players, we can still pick from 17 internationals, Gerrard, Cara, possibly Martin, and any of the players on this list.

1. Pepe Reina
2. Daniel Agger
3. Fernando Torres
4. Albert Riera
5. Fabio Aurelio
6. Xabi Alonso
7. Yossi Benayoun
8. Alvaro Arbeloa
9. Dirk Kuyt
10. Martin Skrtel
11. Javier Mascherano
12. Lucas
13. Diego Cavalieri
14.
15.
16.
17.

David N'Gog, Ryan Babel, Voronin, Dossena, Degen, El Zhar, Leto, and new signings would compete for the final 4 slots.

When it comes to summer signings I am of the opinion that just because a player may or may not be on the CL roster does not mean we should shy away from signing international talent, especially top level talent that would likely just bump off our current "17th international." Having players that can only play in the league may not be such a bad thing. It may suck for them, but it could help the team. Further I don't think it makes sense to buy someone JUST BECAUSE they are English. Because of Gerrard and Carra, if someone was bought ONLY for their nationality and ahead of a better, cheaper foreign option, that player would be #20 on the list for champions league games, which is a minority of the games and not even our most important competition. The 20th best player needs 2 injuries just to be the last guy on the bench.

My philosophy advice to Rafa would be: buy to win the league, figure out how to win the CL with what you have left over.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:29 am

JoeTerp wrote:Another Champions League issue in the summer that might bring up some talking points in the Champions League Squad, and the 4+4 rule that gets a lot of play, and ruled out Hyypia for the group stages.

To review. All clubs in European competition have to register a list of players. The maximum amount of players on this list is 25. Of those 25, at least 8 slots have to be reserved for players that trained in England for 3 years before they turned 21. OF THOSE 8, AT LEAST 4 of those slots have to be reserved for players who trained at LFC for 3 years before they turned 21. These slots are use them or lose them, there is no penalty for not filling them other than not being able register a full 25 man squad.

If you had a team of all English players, but no LFC trained players, you could only have 21 players on the CL roster.

HOWEVER, there is another way you can register players for the Champions League. It is called the B list. You are allowed to register as many players on the B list that you can, and there are no playing restrictions for B list players. You could start a match with an entire B list XI and 7 B list players on the bench if you wanted. The rules to get on the B list are:
Been at the club for 2 years
Born after 1 January 1988 (will be 1989 for next season, and '90 for year after and so on)

This means we will be able to register:
1988:
Adam Hammill
Stephen Darby
Jay Spearing
Damien Plessis
1989 10/11 CL:
Emiliano Insua
Ronald Huth
Mikel San Jose
Krisztian Nemeth
1990 11/12:
Martin Kelly
Peter Gulacsi*
Steve Irwin
Dani Ayala
Nathan Eccleston
Dean Bouzanis*
1991 12/13:
Dani Pacheco
Gerardo Bruna
Alexander Kacaniklic
David Amoo
Adam Pepper

* originally a part of loan deals and I don't know how those apply

Domestic Association Trained
David Martin (could be sold to Leicester City)

Club Trained
Gerrard
Carra

Even if we don't sign any English players, we can still pick from 17 internationals, Gerrard, Cara, possibly Martin, and any of the players on this list.

1. Pepe Reina
2. Daniel Agger
3. Fernando Torres
4. Albert Riera
5. Fabio Aurelio
6. Xabi Alonso
7. Yossi Benayoun
8. Alvaro Arbeloa
9. Dirk Kuyt
10. Martin Skrtel
11. Javier Mascherano
12. Lucas
13. Diego Cavalieri
14.
15.
16.
17.

David N'Gog, Ryan Babel, Voronin, Dossena, Degen, El Zhar, Leto, and new signings would compete for the final 4 slots.

When it comes to summer signings I am of the opinion that just because a player may or may not be on the CL roster does not mean we should shy away from signing international talent, especially top level talent that would likely just bump off our current "17th international." Having players that can only play in the league may not be such a bad thing. It may suck for them, but it could help the team. Further I don't think it makes sense to buy someone JUST BECAUSE they are English. Because of Gerrard and Carra, if someone was bought ONLY for their nationality and ahead of a better, cheaper foreign option, that player would be #20 on the list for champions league games, which is a minority of the games and not even our most important competition. The 20th best player needs 2 injuries just to be the last guy on the bench.

My philosophy advice to Rafa would be: buy to win the league, figure out how to win the CL with what you have left over.

I know the Champions League has never been purely about the football (there's lots of politics and cash-spinning that goes on) but, feck me, what a ridiculous amount of red tape these new regulations have heaped on the competition. B-Teams, birth dates, 'trained by' milestones...the lot of it reeks of bean-counters run amok (and xenophobic ones at that). FFS, just set up the rules for deciding who qualifies and then let them get on with it. :no

by **Owzat** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:46 am

JoeTerp wrote:
Sabre wrote:
I am pretty sure Liverpool will get more CL money if Arsenal do not qualify for the group stages, but not 100% sure.

Why would it that be? I know little about the CL organisation, but I thought clubs got money for results. A victory and a draw would mean extra money. But I never heard the money depended on how many participants of your contry played.

An Arsenal - Atletico Madrid at that stage of the year would be a very unpredictable game. Glad we don't have to get through them. They gave us a tough night at Anfield the fúckers.

well yes the results have a big effect too

link

-------------------------------------------------------------------
4 teams 3 teams 2 teams 1 team
--------------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Champions 40% 45% 55% 100%
Runners-up 30% 35% 45%
No. 3 15% 20%
No. 4 15%
-------------------------------------------------------------------

It's a very convaluted explanation, but are you sure the % split isn't based on how many teams qualify in terms of league position, rather than being adjustable if one drops out? I can't see how Arsenal would qualify in 4th, lose in the qualifying round and be told "sorry, you only get the money if you get into the group stages".

I think that 4,3,2,1 percentage table is based on the number of teams from each country. If Latvia has only one team they get 100% of whatever the team earns, either simply for getting there or if they go through a few rounds.

I might be wrong, or even interpreting what you are saying wrong, but I think the initial percentage depends on the country and finish in that domestic league and then other earnings based on how well the team does.

by **Owzat** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:56 am

Bad Bob wrote:I know the Champions League has never been purely about the football (there's lots of politics and cash-spinning that goes on) but, feck me, what a ridiculous amount of red tape these new regulations have heaped on the competition. B-Teams, birth dates, 'trained by' milestones...the lot of it reeks of bean-counters run amok (and xenophobic ones at that). FFS, just set up the rules for deciding who qualifies and then let them get on with it.

Does seem rather overly complicated. Why did they need to mess about with the qualifying structure for starters? Seems silly to me that three teams from England should go straight into the groups, although I've never believed there should be four from any one domestic league/country anyway.

The group stages are purely for money, create too many fixtures -12 when only four are needed if knockout games - and it's all been blown up beyond it's status.

I can understand why people would want restrictions on players, it is a little too late to undo the mass influx of foreigners into England and I'm not sure forcing a mass exodus will do football any favours. We've never been a great footballing nation, two semi finals since 1966 shows that. We are no better or worse than we've been for the last 40 years, I think UEFA is flexing its muscles a bit and rather than doing things for the good of the game, inputting too many subjective views and looking to turn them into rules/regulations.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unfortunately too many people have already fixed the unbroken and that's why we're where we are. Brazil decided BRAZIL wanted to qualify rather than be given automatic qualification by rights as holders, now ALL holders have to qualify and I think that's wrong. EVERY team or individual should have the opportunity to defend their title. (I thought that long before the issue over us not qualifying for the Champions League by league position in 2004/05) It's a shame the European Championship didn't follow suit and give the holders automatic qualification, but that was probably because only eight teams qualified out of around 40 nations and one was already the hosts.

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:41 pm

the new system makes it easier for teams that win the 3rd tier European league to get into the group stages ahead of the last teams to qualify form the 1st and 2nd tiers. I am guessing that allowing the 3rd teams from the big league to go straight in was a compromise. From now on, coming in 2nd in Scotland is now almost certainly going to put Celtic/Rangers out of the CL group stages.

by **Dundalk** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:42 pm

Chelsea have just been "punished" for their CL outburst

4 game ban and then a further two games suspended for Drogba.

3 game ban and then a further one game suspended for Bosingwa.

This is before any appeal has been lodged, so could probably expect the bans to be halved or at least one knocked off for each player

by **dawson99** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:11 pm

Dundalk wrote:Chelsea have just been "punished" for their CL outburst

4 game ban and then a further two games suspended for Drogba.

3 game ban and then a further one game suspended for Bosingwa.

This is before any appeal has been lodged, so could probably expect the bans to be halved or at least one knocked off for each player

oops, put a new thread for this.. there will be no appeal as the desicion is too lenient as it is

by **Judge** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:53 am

what about ballack?

by **Dundalk** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:32 pm

Arsenal got Celtic!! :oh:

by **Roger Red Hat** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:00 pm

how fixed is football?

fuking scandelous

by **tubby** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:42 pm

Where is the 2nd leg?

by **Greavesie** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:51 pm

dodgy tie, certainly wouldnt fancy that just after the season starts

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