Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:23 pm

Keane was either an absolutely awful signing, or handled absolutely ridiculously, or both. My money is on both. Not having a viable replacement for Torres was certainly one of the major reasons IMHO why we didn't win the title.

If my "golden opportunity" theory is correct (and I suspect it is :laugh:

) then history will be unkind to the manager over his handling of the situation. He correctly identified the fact that we would need a second striker to either play with Torres or instead of him if unavailable, but he picked the wrong player and he handled him badly once he'd got his man. Realising that he'd need a second striker wasn't any great forsight either, as he's sold our previous one who was Crouch (who actually wanted to leave to be fair).

So at the end of the previous season, the manager had 20 million quid to find a top quality second striker. The rest is history.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:35 pm

DrPepe wrote:
s@int wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
s@int wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
s@int wrote:Keane started 23 games and was subbed off in 18 games. He was also subbed off in 4 of his first five games.

all our forwards get subbed off at around 70mins+ (except for Kuyt, who has the photos)

If that caused Keane to be so shi te, then whoopy dooo

Keane is a very goody player and was certainly a quality alternative or partner for Torres, miles better than Tuncay.

no he's not

Wrong ...... the average for the other forwards is around 50% , even for such star strikers as N'gog and Voronin, for Keane it was around 80%.

No - not wrong, really

I said that all our strikers get substituted - you've just posted that they all get subbed at least 1 in every 2 games which is exactly what i said. Seeing as Keane was a failing striker, i'd expect him to be substituted more.

but don't give me "around 50%" - if you've gone and done the research you can provide actual figures for all of our forwards

If you are so concerned with accuracy maybe you could try doing the research yourself rather than coming out with "wet finger in the air" statements?

No you didn't say that they get subbed off one game in 2.
all our forwards get subbed off at around 70mins+ (except for Kuyt, who has the photos)

That is what you said, implying that Keane was treated no differently to the other strikers ....... he was!

Personally I never wanted to sign Keane ,I didn't think he was the type of player we needed, and I said so before and after we signed him, but having signed him I would have thought that it was in the clubs interest to try to get the best out of him. This I don't believe we did.

Why do i want to do research to back up your theory? if you haven't got the figures where did you get 50%/80% from? (did you put your finger in the air? )

That is what you said, implying that Keane was treated no differently to the other strikers ....... he was!

i think you've misinterpreted what i said here, or splitting hairs. Reel your neck in a bit mate, I never said or implied that Keane's exact proportion of substituions was the same as anyone elses, just that all our strikers get substituted - they do, and it happens very often (aside from kuyt ).

No I don't think I misinterpreted what you said, neither am I splitting hairs, you got it WRONG.

All our players get subbed apart from the goalkeeper, that is not the issue , the issue is how often they get subbed, and Keane was subbed much MORE THAN ANY OTHER STRIKER

by **DrPepe** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:54 pm

s@int wrote:MORE THAN ANY OTHER STRIKER

that was never my point

a simple misinterpretation on your part

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:57 pm

NO you were simply WRONG mate.

As IMO is anyone who thinks that Voronin is better than Keane, or that Rafa's treatment of Keane didn't have a detrimental effect on Keane's performances.

by **DrPepe** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:58 pm

s@int wrote::laugh: NO you were simply WRONG mate.

in your tiny mind , maybe

but you started it

by **bigmick** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:58 pm

One of the oddest aspects of Keanegate, is how people are so inconsistent with their various positions. Most everyone I think would accept that two of the most significant reasons we didn't win the title (in fact THE two most significant reasons) were that firstly Torres missed many games, and secondly becuase we weren't efficient enough in beating bus parkers. People go on about these two reasons until they are blue in the face.

Those same people though in the next sentence, will imply that nothing in Keanegate was significant. It didn't matter that we subbed him continuously, dropped him each time he scored two goals, because he had "an attitude". It didn't matter that we spent 20 million quid on the wrong player, because we got 12 million back and only lost 8. It didn't matter that we made no attempt whatsoever to build a bridge with him, nor sign a replacement when we sold him, our handling of him was spot on.

Now had the Keane signing actually come off, we may have been better able to compensate for Torres's absense. At this point someone will normally quote some numbers that show we actually coped well in Torres's absense. It will quite probably be one of the same people who were saying Torres's absense cost us the league, but don't let that bother you :laugh:

. Equally, had we signed someone for 20 million quid who was actually worth the money, we might have been more able to roll over the bus parkers. At that point, someone will jump in and tell you that it's nothing to do with Rafa.

It's funny how people ask you to let an argument drop, but then come back to it continuously. Even if I was Rafa's biggest fan, I'd just admit he fecked up royally on this one and move on. This blind defence is tantamount to us winning the quadruple and an anti claiming it was just lucky :laugh:

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:03 pm

DrPepe wrote:
s@int wrote::laugh: NO you were simply WRONG mate.

in your tiny mind , maybe

but you started it

If you want to be abusive we can move straight along to the abusive stuff? So stop being a complete d!ckhead and and cut the insults.

by **aCe'** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:15 pm

s@int wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
s@int wrote::laugh: NO you were simply WRONG mate.

in your tiny mind , maybe

but you started it

If you want to be abusive we can move straight along to the abusive stuff? So stop being a complete d!ckhead and and cut the insults.

Werent we top of the league with Keane despite not having Gerrard and Torres for the better part of that time... And didnt we lose the league in the time when we started messing around with Keane and then went on to sell him ?! Im just saying, he must have done something right despite what some would have you believe... hes a good player and deffo better than voronin, Ngog, Babel and even Kuyt when played upfront...

Should we have bought him for that money ? no
Should we have sold him when we did, knowing we had no one to play upfront if Torres got injured ? no again...

And funny about the whole him not doing anything since his move to Tottenham thing... they improved dramatically in the 2nd half of the season ..

by **burjennio** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:23 pm

Lord I wish when people went on rants they would use the phrase "In my opinion" a helluva lot more than they do on here. Simple fact is not one of us really know what went on in the transfer of Keane to the club, his treatment and attitude while he was here or his shimmy off back to London, we all use what little info we get from various sources, what we see on the TV and the tripe we read in the tabloids and reinforce our own pre-conceived ideas about the situation. All I could accurately say would be that Keane was bought to PARTNER Torres not to cover him, as strikers they are total opposites and I believe that Torres injury forced Rafas hand into playing him up front on his own, so its not a contridiction to say "We would have won the league if Torres was fit" and "Keane leaving was insignificant" because Keane could NEVER replace Torres, it would be like having Gerrard injured all season and saying "but we have Lucas." He may play the same position but hes light years behind him in ability and influence. So, IN MY OPINION, a comparision of Keane and Voronin is alot more applicable that with Keane and Torres.

by **Ray Pugh** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:44 pm

DrPepe wrote:
s@int wrote:Keane started 23 games and was subbed off in 18 games. He was also subbed off in 4 of his first five games.

all our forwards get subbed off at around 70mins+ (except for Kuyt, who has the photos)

If that caused Keane to be so shi te, then whoopy dooo

Keane is a very goody player and was certainly a quality alternative or partner for Torres, miles better than Tuncay.

no he's not

Obviously Dr. Pepe your knowledge is only of goalkeepers so don't try and comment on strikers!!!!

by **mart** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:06 pm

The endless amount of moaning surrounding a player that was here for half a season is unbelievable.
Keane sucked, and more importantly cried like a baby. If he was on the bench the cameras would stay zoomed on Keane crying for half our matches accompanied by bitching about him from the commentators. Good riddance.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:54 pm

Spotted outside Melwood...

I guess he really is back.

by **dawson99** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:55 pm

Ray Pugh wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
s@int wrote:Keane started 23 games and was subbed off in 18 games. He was also subbed off in 4 of his first five games.

all our forwards get subbed off at around 70mins+ (except for Kuyt, who has the photos)

If that caused Keane to be so shi te, then whoopy dooo

Keane is a very goody player and was certainly a quality alternative or partner for Torres, miles better than Tuncay.

no he's not

Obviously Dr. Pepe your knowledge is only of goalkeepers so don't try and comment on strikers!!!!

Keane woulda played in same position as Stevie.. so never woulda got a game, thats why he went.

Veronin can be an asset

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:57 pm

The legend returns... :laugh:

by **Dundalk** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:58 pm

Jesus wept

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Voronin - I'll be back at liverpool next season

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