The annual 'players from relegated clubs' thread - Is anyone good to be at lfc ?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Ace Ventura » Sun May 31, 2009 10:00 pm

Owen on a pay as you play as a back up to Torres and a sub in tight games.

I think yes what about you.


Ignore his end to the season with Newcastle they had gone and it wasnt just him that seemed to be playing like they knew what was going to happen.

I would only take him as a squad player, just to play those games if or when Torres is injured or tired.
Like Fernando his understanding with Stevie was brilliant and he could certainly come in when required and produce the goods.
Would be a MASSIVE step up on Ngog as our replacement striker.
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Postby redhayesy » Sun May 31, 2009 10:39 pm

Owzat wrote:Can anyone see Man Utd shopping at the relegated clubs? No. They mostly offload rubbish on them, players not good enough to make it at a big club. There are a few big names at Newcastle and Boro, but we should be shopping elsewhere. I'd question if Tuncay, Downing, Taylor or Wheater would break into our first team squad, I doubt they would be sold cheaply, so why pay over the odds for Festy's "back-up" list? I'd rather sign a quality CB and make Skrtel and Agger "back-up", sign Tevez and make Riera "back-up". Owen if he'd be happy not starting and at the right price, I would go for, but I doubt he would go for it. Duff would have been a good signing 5-6 years ago, not now. Martins may seem like a good striker, he isn't a great striker and plays as much or less than Owen.

Why have Boro and Newcastle sunk? Newcastle because they bought a lot of ordinary players and have too many players with injury problems. Bassong, Guthrie, Butt, Barton, Smith, Capaca, Beye, Geremi and Xisco are hardly the greatest signings, they gradually brought in substandard players and finally the balance has tipped them over the edge and into the Championship. They have done a bit of a Leeds, paid a lot for ordinary fare and on high wages. At least a number of their players are going to be where they belong

Boro sank because their manager is cr ap, they have a lot of ordinary players and ordinary English players, and don't score enough goals. Once they lost Schwarzer and Viduka they were screwed, an attacking line-up of Alves, Aliadiere, and Tuncay is never going to score you a lot of goals with a fairly ordinary midfield and ok, but not great, defence.

suberb post mate, agree with you apart from the owen part, i don't want owen back not for any reason! he made his bed he has to lie on it! he will moe than ever now regret the day he left LFC.

but agree with you that why would we want any player from the mentioned clubs, like you say if manure wouldn't take them,or they are not good enough to play for manure why would we want them. forget price, or age their isn't one player mentioned i'd even consider.
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Postby Ace Ventura » Sun May 31, 2009 10:47 pm

redhayesy wrote:
Owzat wrote:Can anyone see Man Utd shopping at the relegated clubs? No. They mostly offload rubbish on them, players not good enough to make it at a big club. There are a few big names at Newcastle and Boro, but we should be shopping elsewhere. I'd question if Tuncay, Downing, Taylor or Wheater would break into our first team squad, I doubt they would be sold cheaply, so why pay over the odds for Festy's "back-up" list? I'd rather sign a quality CB and make Skrtel and Agger "back-up", sign Tevez and make Riera "back-up". Owen if he'd be happy not starting and at the right price, I would go for, but I doubt he would go for it. Duff would have been a good signing 5-6 years ago, not now. Martins may seem like a good striker, he isn't a great striker and plays as much or less than Owen.

Why have Boro and Newcastle sunk? Newcastle because they bought a lot of ordinary players and have too many players with injury problems. Bassong, Guthrie, Butt, Barton, Smith, Capaca, Beye, Geremi and Xisco are hardly the greatest signings, they gradually brought in substandard players and finally the balance has tipped them over the edge and into the Championship. They have done a bit of a Leeds, paid a lot for ordinary fare and on high wages. At least a number of their players are going to be where they belong

Boro sank because their manager is cr ap, they have a lot of ordinary players and ordinary English players, and don't score enough goals. Once they lost Schwarzer and Viduka they were screwed, an attacking line-up of Alves, Aliadiere, and Tuncay is never going to score you a lot of goals with a fairly ordinary midfield and ok, but not great, defence.

suberb post mate, agree with you apart from the owen part, i don't want owen back not for any reason! he made his bed he has to lie on it! he will moe than ever now regret the day he left LFC.

but agree with you that why would we want any player from the mentioned clubs, like you say if manure wouldn't take them,or they are not good enough to play for manure why would we want them. forget price, or age their isn't one player mentioned i'd even consider.

Not meaning to sound like am being funny mate but that seems a little naive and we are thinking we are above our station.

Now i agree that we should be shopping n the same places as united chelsea real madrid etc etc etc.

But we are not in the same financial position.

Again i agree, there is not much to look at anyway from the relegated trio.
But if we TOLD Owen that we might sign him as a back up. And that while he will be a key squad member thats exactly all he will be, and he fancied it on pay as you play. Then we would be mad to pass it up due to his previous bad decision making.
Just my opinion like  :)
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Postby JC_81 » Sun May 31, 2009 11:07 pm

I don't think there are too many players from those relegated clubs that I'd consider to be good enough for us.

Wheater and Downing could become better players with a move to better sides I reckon, but I don't think either would improve our best XI.  Likewise with Tuncay and possibly Johnson from what people are saying but I haven't had a good look at him myself yet.

At Newcastle Martins would be a decent option I reckon, but again would be more of a bench player for us.  Same goes for Owen.  With Owen I would only even consider it on a pay-as-you-play, otherwise forget about it, he's just too injury prone.  Duff has lost a yard or ten of pace and isn't the same player.  Taylor simply isn't good enough.

At West Brom I like Brunt, think he's a talented player with a great left peg on him.  But better than what we have already on the left?  No.  I expect he'll end up at Rangers next season.
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Postby Rorschach26 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:52 am

id take tuncay, downing, wheater and johnson off middlesbourgh and id take martins off newcastle the rest can go whistle

but only if we had no other choice then to buy off relegated prem clubs
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Postby Owzat » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:53 am

Ace Ventura wrote:Not meaning to sound like am being funny mate but that seems a little naive and we are thinking we are above our station.

Now i agree that we should be shopping n the same places as united chelsea real madrid etc etc etc.

But we are not in the same financial position.


But just because you can't spend £30m on top quality players, doesn't mean you should pay over the odds for ordinary players. There is no difference between Downing Premiership and Downing Championship granted, but I doubt Boro will adjust their asking price either.

We may not have the same money as the mancs and Chelsea, but that means we have to spend our money WISELY more than them. £11.5m on Babel, £7m on Dossena and £20.3m on Keane isn't wise spending. We spent near £40m on players last summer and one of them has made a decent impression, but we could have bought a quality player for £25m and still got him (Riera) Rafa unfortunately leans towards quantity over quality, that's great IF you can find some bargains.

You say we have to worry about money, I do but only how Rafa spends it. Top clubs don't have to pay top dollar for players :

Title Winning XI?

GK Reina £6m (Liverpool)
RB Sagna £6m (Arsenal)
LB Evra £4m (Man Utd)
CB Vidic £6.9m (Man Utd)
CB Agger £5.8m (Liverpool)
CM Mikel £11m (Chelsea)
CM Alonso £10.5m (Liverpool)
AM Cahill £1.5m (Everton)
RWF Ronaldo £12.24 (Man Utd)
LWF Van Persie £2.75m (Arsenal)
CF Anelka £15m (Chelsea)

£82.09m, around £50m less than our squad cost so money to spend on decent subs. You'd never get Ronaldo for £12.24m now so sub in Kuyt if you like for £2m less. With Kuyt in for Ronaldo it comes to £110m without using youth players or freebies (or players from relegated clubs) Our squad cost £133m, is that XI better than our XI or worse? I'd say it is probably just in favour of the above XI, better FBs and arguably the best CB in the Premiership plus Anelka and RVP is surely a better combination than Torres and Riera/Benayoun? If you took out Cahill and put in Gerrard then I think it would be no contest, I couldn't include Gerrard by my own restraints.

You wouldn't get Ronaldo for £12.24m now, but we could have had him for that had we been a bit wiser, 20+ goals a season for the past three seasons.

I stuck to the top five and you could have Arteta £2m and Jagielka £4m except I think my XI has better quality already so they could be subs along with Green £2m, Skrtel £6m, Santa Cruz £3.8m, Ashley Young £9.65m, and McCarthy £2.5m. A whole 17 players for £112.04m with none costing more than £15m and no lack of quality. Obviously I would probably splash a bit more and buy someone like Torres for £21m, but that above was to show that you don't have to spend £200m+ to assemble a quality XI.


villa don't seem to be quite the low budget geniuses some would like us to think, £8m on Curtis Davies, £12m on Milner, £7.8m on Cuellar and £8.5m on Rio-Choker - they couldn't even finish above the bitters!

Ace Ventura wrote:Again i agree, there is not much to look at anyway from the relegated trio.


Hence why they share the common theme of being relegated

Ace Ventura wrote:But if we TOLD Owen that we might sign him as a back up. And that while he will be a key squad member thats exactly all he will be, and he fancied it on pay as you play. Then we would be mad to pass it up due to his previous bad decision making.
Just my opinion like  :)


I read a rumour yesterday that Liverpool players are urging Rafa to sign Owen. I think it is an option we should seriously consider, it may not work out but you yourself said we aren't in a strong financial position and a fit Owen wouldn't be much of a gamble. If he only scores us 10-12 goals in a season, so be it, it's more than the likes of Babel and N'Gog are weighing in with.
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Postby Ace Ventura » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:11 am

I think we often pay over the odds for players.

As soon as we come in for someone the club adds a few million straight away.

There are obviously some good players out there if you can spot them, and Moyes to be fair has done really well with the likes of Arteta and Cahill.
Not convinced when he has spent big though Fellaini and Yakubu.

Just as a side note, why have you put John obi mikel in your team, he is dog poo and resembles a surprised moon.
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Postby RobinHood6969 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:29 am

Ace Ventura wrote:I think we often pay over the odds for players.

As soon as we come in for someone the club adds a few million straight away.

There are obviously some good players out there if you can spot them, and Moyes to be fair has done really well with the likes of Arteta and Cahill.
Not convinced when he has spent big though Fellaini and Yakubu.

Just as a side note, why have you put John obi mikel in your team, he is dog poo and resembles a surprised moon.

Mikel is  rodent poo..not even as worthy as  dog poo...  :D
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Postby stmichael » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:41 am

Ace Ventura wrote:Owen on a pay as you play as a back up to Torres and a sub in tight games.

I think yes what about you.


Ignore his end to the season with Newcastle they had gone and it wasnt just him that seemed to be playing like they knew what was going to happen.

I would only take him as a squad player, just to play those games if or when Torres is injured or tired.
Like Fernando his understanding with Stevie was brilliant and he could certainly come in when required and produce the goods.
Would be a MASSIVE step up on Ngog as our replacement striker.

If it's pay as you play we have nothing to lose.

The only problem is, whenever Owen used to come back from an injury it would usually take him 5 or 6 games to get his touch back and start scoring. He probably isn't going to get any run of games. Or at least I hope he doesn't as that will mean Torres or Gerrard have picked up a bad injury.
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Postby Owzat » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:05 pm

I don't see why Owen should settle for pay as you play, would any of us be happy with that situation? (say 'commission only' work) Or if you applied for a job, they looked at your sick leave in the past two or three years and said "well you take a lot of time off work so we'll have to knock a bit off your starting salary and offer you only six month contracts at a time with no compensation if we decide not to renew.

The thing with Michael is he might be happy to be paid normally but sit on the bench as much as start, would we get a better quality striker who would be (as) happy not to start regularly?

He's been tagged "injury prone", yet made 29 Premiership appearances last season and 27 appearances this season - Torres only played 24 Premiership games and we aren't talking about him being "pay as you play". It's almost a kneejerk reaction by fans to a player with "injury problems", to talk of this scenario. We either want him or we don't, if we 27+ Premiership games and 10 or 12 goals then I see no reason why he should be singled out for a "pay as you play" contract.

As it happens, if we stick with one up front then Owen would be competing to start and unless his injuries coincided with Torres', it might not matter too much. Personally I think it is a problem at St Jim Jams Park, he has 27+ league appearances in every full season he's played except two - both at St Jim Jams Park

Michael Owen League Appearances

LIVERPOOL

96/97 : 2
97/98 : 36
98/99 : 30
99/00 : 27
00/01 : 28
01/02 : 29
02/03 : 35
03/04 : 29

REAL MADRID

04/05 : 35

NEWCASTLE

05/06 : 11
06/07 : 3
07/08 : 29
08/09 : 27

321 league appearances in 12 full seasons is an average of 27. Anelka started his first full season in 97/98, he has made 336 league appearances in the same period of 12 seasons (although no details of 06/07, perhaps missed most of it?). source : wikipedia

It's pure coincidence I should pick Anelka, mainly because he came to prominance for Arsenal in 97/98, but he and Michael Owen share 19 as their most league goals in a season.
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Postby Ace Ventura » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:28 pm

My problem is also to do with Owens salary.

He would have to take a massive drop on what he is being paid now if he was coming in as just a squad player.

We couldnt pay him 100 grand a week so sit on the bench. His salary would have to reflect what the other squad players are on to make it work.
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Postby GYBS » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:36 pm

Why would anyone ever wnat Owen back ? He has done feck all for three years , is always injured and wnats massive wages . Even on a free he would be a waste of money on wages .
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Postby DanAn » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:48 pm

Hasn't Owen averaged a goal every two games his entire carreer including the last 3 years? That's a bit more then feck all in my book. Worth a punt at about 80K p/w I reckon and I'd personally enjoy seeing him back at Anfield. Wouldn't take him long to settle either which is a plus for us considering we want a crack at the title.
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Postby GYBS » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:03 pm

We need to be looking forward not backwards - Owen left us years ago and is now no longer the footballer he was - It worked with bringing Fowler back cause he had and still does Liverpool in his heart - the only person Owen cares about is himself . He has scored a goal every 3-4 games for Newcastle . Would rather anymore spent on wages for a player would go towards someone who will benefit the team a lot more . He is 30 now - injury prone and lost his main weapon .
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Postby Ace Ventura » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:05 pm

GYBS wrote:We need to be looking forward not backwards - Owen left us years ago and is now no longer the footballer he was - It worked with bringing Fowler back cause he had and still does Liverpool in his heart - the only person Owen cares about is himself . He has scored a goal every 3-4 games for Newcastle . Would rather anymore spent on wages for a player would go towards someone who will benefit the team a lot more . He is 30 now - injury prone and lost his main weapon .

Who then ?

If he was happy to be a squad player and took a pay cut he would definately be worth the gamble imo.
He lost his pace years ago but has great awareness and finishes his chances.

He will always score goals and coming off the bench between him and David Ngog i know who i would back to do the business.
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