Liverpool FC Forum

by **ConnO'var** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:03 am

Owzat wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:Alot of If's and But's Con , but he plays with martins with newcastle who's not crouch and he has been scoring regularly even though he's half fit or coming off the bench . I'm pretty sure he'd take a pay cut to come back to LFC where he has a chance to win trophies rather than stay at newcasle , or got to everton or spurs . He seems to have his injury troubles behind him as he has played majority of newcastle's games this season , for that price again its got to be worth a punt .

Exactly.

Are we so wrapped up in whether one striker can play with another that we will only ever have one quality striker? Wasn't that the issue with Fowler and Owen? If they are good enough strikers then they can play with each other, our problem before this run of draws at home was Keane missing chances and let's face it, Torres is looking as injury prone as Owen so the odds of both being fit at the same time are looking small.

For £3m you can't go wrong with Owen, plenty will still bury their heads in the sand and refuse to see it as maybe the move that could make us title challengers.

I hear what you, Toff and Maypax are saying Owz.

You all have valid points. I just feel that the negatives and risks outweigh the potential positives. And I have to admit that I AM biased against Michael Owen ever since the Newcastle incident. I was willing to accept, and could even understand, his decision to go to Real Madrid but when he chose Newcastle over us, I could not find it in myself to forgive him.

While I admit that I am biased, do not let it detract from my footballing and financial reasons for not wanting him back. I assure you that this is not a case of "cutting off the nose to spite the face". In my heart of hearts, I honestly do not feel that he is the answer with our current squad and set up.

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:25 am

Just out of curiosity , all biasness aside , how could he not fit into our set up and team play ?

by **ConnO'var** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:23 am

Well Toff, to fit both Torres and Michael in the same starting line-up is going to be tough.

Owen used to play off the shoulders of the last defender and depend on his pace, positioning and finishing to get his goals. He was and still is, a poacher of the highest pedigree. As such he benefits from having a strong target man to hold the ball and create space for him. Space that he exploits extremely well. He's never been one of those strikers skillful enough to dribble his way out of tight spaces.... he just never had the ball skills and flair.... to be fair he's gotten better over the years in these respects as he lost a yard or two of pace. In his younger days, the man had so much speed that its my thought it was never really required for him to develop those aspects of his game. But he's got a footballing brain and in my mind, this has made it possible for him to mature and adapt enough to compensate for the lost of said speed. It is a mark of great footballers as they age.... many have done it with Digger, Gullit, Beardsley, Matthaus being the most obvious examples of "recent" times.

Torres is similar in many respects. He is, IMO, not as good a finisher or poacher as Owen. He does however, have better skills on the ball and can play up front on his own much better. Owen can play as a lone forward as well but he used to be effective in this role, only when we play on the counter-attack where he will have more space, seeing as he would have to come from a little deeper to utilize his blinding pace. In a more measured game, when we are monopolising the possession and dictating the pace of a measured attack, Owen will have problems simply due to the lack of space. Both Torres and Owen need this to be effective. In a 2 man attack, with both of them in the squad, who's going to help them create that in the opponents' defensive third? We would not have an effective focal point in attack with 2 guys constantly manouvering for space. We''ll then have to depend on a series of through balls being played from midfield to be effective. This would mean that we end up playing very narrow and the wings would be less utilised. (Of course with the wingers we have at the moment, barring possibly Riera, this would not be a problem

) All that would make us very predictable and teams looking at parking the bus when they play us would quite simply pack the midfield to block out the alleys. Without wing play or a creative second striker/attacking midfielder, this is what I feel will happen...... Has been our problem for years.

With both Torres and Owen in the 1st team at the same time, IMO, this is what will happen. They are too similar to play in a 2 man attack.

At best, signing Owen would mean that he has to play a back up role to Torres. Would he be happy doing that, what with his England ambitions and all that? Potentially, dressing room harmony could then become an issue..... and for the wages he'd demand (being the money grubbing little git that he is...

), it's an extremely high price to pay for a back-up striker at best.

2 p worth, mate.

by **roberto green** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:52 pm

Web have nothing to lose if we sign Michael as much as i didn't like the way he left us,as long as he can get us some goals i'm not arsed:(

by **Madmax** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:12 pm

roberto green wrote:Web have nothing to lose if we sign Michael as much as i didn't like the way he left us,as long as he can get us some goals i'm not arsed:(

agreed. a decent option indeed.

by **tubby** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:20 pm

Guardian rumors saying yesteday that Owen will be coming back and Rafa has decided to put the past aside.

by **maguskwt** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:22 pm

bavlondon wrote:Guardian rumors saying yesteday that Owen will be coming back and Rafa has decided to put the past aside.

hope it's true mate...

by **RedBen** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:27 pm

I hope it's true aswell, but I'm trying to imagine Rafa saying: 'Let's put the past aside' and it's not working

Would love him here tho

by **tubby** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:34 pm

Well hopefully a few of dismal home performances like yesterday will wake Rafa up into realising we need him back.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:49 pm

ConnO'var wrote:Well Toff, to fit both Torres and Michael in the same starting line-up is going to be tough.

Owen used to play off the shoulders of the last defender and depend on his pace, positioning and finishing to get his goals. He was and still is, a poacher of the highest pedigree. As such he benefits from having a strong target man to hold the ball and create space for him. Space that he exploits extremely well. He's never been one of those strikers skillful enough to dribble his way out of tight spaces.... he just never had the ball skills and flair.... to be fair he's gotten better over the years in these respects as he lost a yard or two of pace. In his younger days, the man had so much speed that its my thought it was never really required for him to develop those aspects of his game. But he's got a footballing brain and in my mind, this has made it possible for him to mature and adapt enough to compensate for the lost of said speed. It is a mark of great footballers as they age.... many have done it with Digger, Gullit, Beardsley, Matthaus being the most obvious examples of "recent" times.

Torres is similar in many respects. He is, IMO, not as good a finisher or poacher as Owen. He does however, have better skills on the ball and can play up front on his own much better. Owen can play as a lone forward as well but he used to be effective in this role, only when we play on the counter-attack where he will have more space, seeing as he would have to come from a little deeper to utilize his blinding pace. In a more measured game, when we are monopolising the possession and dictating the pace of a measured attack, Owen will have problems simply due to the lack of space. Both Torres and Owen need this to be effective. In a 2 man attack, with both of them in the squad, who's going to help them create that in the opponents' defensive third? We would not have an effective focal point in attack with 2 guys constantly manouvering for space. We''ll then have to depend on a series of through balls being played from midfield to be effective. This would mean that we end up playing very narrow and the wings would be less utilised. (Of course with the wingers we have at the moment, barring possibly Riera, this would not be a problem ) All that would make us very predictable and teams looking at parking the bus when they play us would quite simply pack the midfield to block out the alleys. Without wing play or a creative second striker/attacking midfielder, this is what I feel will happen...... Has been our problem for years.

With both Torres and Owen in the 1st team at the same time, IMO, this is what will happen. They are too similar to play in a 2 man attack.

At best, signing Owen would mean that he has to play a back up role to Torres. Would he be happy doing that, what with his England ambitions and all that? Potentially, dressing room harmony could then become an issue..... and for the wages he'd demand (being the money grubbing little git that he is... ), it's an extremely high price to pay for a back-up striker at best.

2 p worth, mate.

Good post Conn, needless to say I disagree with you , but at least you put FOOTBALL reasons for your reluctance.

Owen has always been not only a speed merchant but has great movement in and around the box. He creates space for himself a lot of the time by the way he runs.....stops.....then runs again. His positional play is exceptional, you don't happen to be in the right place at the right time as often as he does without it.

Since he lost his blistering pace he has changed his style quite a bit, looking to get infront of his marker more and take early options rather than beating his man. I think that we create enough chances and half chances to make his return worthwhile, with the added bonus that IF he manages to click with Torres they could become an astonishing goalscoring partnership.

Yesterday the ball fell to Kuyt 3 times in the penalty area, and 3 times his first touch killed any chance of a goal. Just try that with Owen

by **bunglemark2** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:53 pm

Apparently he's just got another cracker today against Pompey...

by **tubby** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:02 pm

Why the hell didnt just give Rafa 1 season. :angry:

pisses me off where we could be now if he had never left.

by **GYBS** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:26 pm

owen left to win trophies . Owen went to newcastle for money . He will be injured again soon so all this talk about him coming back will vanish . Robbie came back out of love for the club . Owen doesnt feel the same . He only looks after himself .

by **burjennio** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:52 pm

he scored a lovely chip, he really does look a player again if he can stay fit he would be a asset to any club in the league. FWIW GYBS he did want to come back to us when he left Madrid but Newcastle offered Real twice as much money as Liverpool were (rightly) willing to pay after selling him for only 8m so he didnt really have an option.

by **devaney** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:57 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:No.

1) The tw@t refused to give Rafa a chance when he first came to the club

2) The Dipstick went to Newcastle instead of coming back when he had the chance

3) Injuries

4) Never go back

For the record, I think Heskey will be an even worse signing.

Agreed 100%

Totally agree but scrap the childish insults. He gave us a lot of fantastic memories. The board were as much to blame as MO for him leaving and not coming back. Let's face it they don't learn they nearly managed to lose Gerrard as well ffs !!!!!!!!

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