Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:02 pm

Fucking shite at home again woeful against the worst team in the league.

by **tubby** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:05 pm

Rafa needs to sit down the team and say look your top of the table but that wont stay for long unless you pull your fingers out. In fairness we have always had a problem motivating ourselves lesser sides. It seems unless we are playing Arsenal, Chelsea or Utd or a big European club we cant get out of 1st gear. Baffles me sometimes. You would think that the pure notion of being several points clear at the top of the table is motivation alone to win this game but no. My only assumption is that most of the squad are not as hungry for sucess they should be.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:57 pm

bavlondon wrote:Rafa needs to sit down the team and say look your top of the table but that wont stay for long unless you pull your fingers out. In fairness we have always had a problem motivating ourselves lesser sides. It seems unless we are playing Arsenal, Chelsea or Utd or a big European club we cant get out of 1st gear. Baffles me sometimes. You would think that the pure notion of being several points clear at the top of the table is motivation alone to win this game but no. My only assumption is that most of the squad are not as hungry for sucess they should be.

Honestly, I don't think it's a lack of hunger, mate. I think the lads are sh!t scared at the moment because they're in uncharted territory and the weight of expectation is that much greater. We're an awesome side when we're the underdogs but we tend to freeze far too often when we're expected to win. Unless we shed that mentality, the title will remain out of reach.

by **Number 9** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:04 am

Bad Bob wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Rafa needs to sit down the team and say look your top of the table but that wont stay for long unless you pull your fingers out. In fairness we have always had a problem motivating ourselves lesser sides. It seems unless we are playing Arsenal, Chelsea or Utd or a big European club we cant get out of 1st gear. Baffles me sometimes. You would think that the pure notion of being several points clear at the top of the table is motivation alone to win this game but no. My only assumption is that most of the squad are not as hungry for sucess they should be.

Honestly, I don't think it's a lack of hunger, mate. I think the lads are sh!t scared at the moment because they're in uncharted territory and the weight of expectation is that much greater. We're an awesome side when we're the underdogs but we tend to freeze far too often when we're expected to win. Unless we shed that mentality, the title will remain out of reach.

Spot on,the players are as nervous as we are!
They need a big win,to thump a team..then maybe they can believe.Saying that we are playing sh'ite and still top of the EPL.
Chelsea are not the force they were(two home defeats) and Fergie has too many attacking players,and is shuffling them like a deck of cards!

by **LegBarnes** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:10 am

metalhead wrote:so WHY aren't we breaking down teams at home this season?!

I thought you knew you seem to know every thing yet you asking others for reasons isn't it clear ?

We play with midfield to deep this lets there defenders and midfields close a 5-10 meter gap that most of time traps the ball there.

When you are at home and a team defends it is needed to have a Attacking Midfielder to sit in hole between the defence and midfield of there team to almost suck either a midfieler to them or a defender to them , thus open a hole for your strikers to run into its called a channel.

But even if we did that it wouldn't help bcos rafa only likes torres as a channel runner and won't give babel a fair chance(so if torres is injured we play 2 holding midfielders and we have no real AM and no real channel runner).

So we tend to play with attacks down both flanks but we tend to lack the players to get into near and far post runs to attack those crosses most of time our players stick in center and make it very easy for the cental defender to do what most prem defenders do and head clear.

I would play in all games a pacey forward one that can run channels (torres/babel) and play a player that drop deeper like a kyut.keane behind in the space.

Then i would play gerrard on the right and use him to draw the fall backs out wide to open those gaps for alonso to prob passes into the channels.

But thats just me I am just clueless person that has babel tinted glasses don't listen to me.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:18 am

Bad Bob wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Rafa needs to sit down the team and say look your top of the table but that wont stay for long unless you pull your fingers out. In fairness we have always had a problem motivating ourselves lesser sides. It seems unless we are playing Arsenal, Chelsea or Utd or a big European club we cant get out of 1st gear. Baffles me sometimes. You would think that the pure notion of being several points clear at the top of the table is motivation alone to win this game but no. My only assumption is that most of the squad are not as hungry for sucess they should be.

Honestly, I don't think it's a lack of hunger, mate. I think the lads are sh!t scared at the moment because they're in uncharted territory and the weight of expectation is that much greater. We're an awesome side when we're the underdogs but we tend to freeze far too often when we're expected to win. Unless we shed that mentality, the title will remain out of reach.

I think the part in bold is BOLLOX Bob, when we are underdogs we play on the break, desperately trying to keep a clean sheet and snatch a goal. When we play against sides we should beat, we play just the same...... we just have more possession!

The reason we do better against the good sides is that they have ambitions to win and press forward, against the poorer teams they are happy with a point. Although some of the poorer sides see the way we are playing and "think" they can get all three points now.

I agree its not lack of hunger, just lack of ideas and creativity. Lack of genuine goalscorers all over the pitch and too much safety first passing backwards football doesn't help either.

Without a Torres to hit teams on the break or score individual goals we look toothless and our only hope is a Gerrard "special" .

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:18 am

I think it's time to give Riera a rest and let him figure out what the fook has got into him in the past few weeks, compared with how he played at the start. I think it's time to send Benayoun to the knacker's yard and see if they'll give us a tenner for him. I think it's time a whole lot of players looked in the mirror - especially after the past three games - and asked themselves what the hell they think they're doing in the first team.
I think it's time we had a bit of coaching on how to take a corner, how to cross the ball from the wings....
I think it's time Gerrard had a lot more say on the pitch and off the pitch to his team mates...

by **LegBarnes** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:20 am

Its not them mate its rafa he doesn't know how to train players in the attacking sense of football.

He is a top defensive coach but thats it no clue about attack space opening holes or 3 on 2s end off.

In fact longer rafa has a player under his training programs worse they get at scoring goals its a fact !

He sucks the life out of there attacking skills and trys to turn them into dog body defenders no wonder babel dont get games maybe bcos he don't want to be a attacking left midfielder defender ! poor chap !

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:42 am

LegBarnes wrote:
metalhead wrote:so WHY aren't we breaking down teams at home this season?!

I thought you knew you seem to know every thing yet you asking others for reasons isn't it clear ?

We play with midfield to deep this lets there defenders and midfields close a 5-10 meter gap that most of time traps the ball there.

When you are at home and a team defends it is needed to have a Attacking Midfielder to sit in hole between the defence and midfield of there team to almost suck either a midfieler to them or a defender to them , thus open a hole for your strikers to run into its called a channel.

But even if we did that it wouldn't help bcos rafa only likes torres as a channel runner and won't give babel a fair chance(so if torres is injured we play 2 holding midfielders and we have no real AM and no real channel runner).

So we tend to play with attacks down both flanks but we tend to lack the players to get into near and far post runs to attack those crosses most of time our players stick in center and make it very easy for the cental defender to do what most prem defenders do and head clear.

I would play in all games a pacey forward one that can run channels (torres/babel) and play a player that drop deeper like a kyut.keane behind in the space.

Then i would play gerrard on the right and use him to draw the fall backs out wide to open those gaps for alonso to prob passes into the channels.

But thats just me I am just clueless person that has babel tinted glasses don't listen to me.

You make a lot of sense and I'm surprised that Rafa in all this time has not learned on how to improve our attacking play. I'm no expert at football but it seems so obvious sometimes. This team really needs to work more on improving their short passing game. We would have won today if the players calmed down a bit and tried to do some combinations in the box. Sometimes all it takes some simple one two's to open up a defense, other top teams do it all the time. This is how you should play against teams with tight defenses.

by **LegBarnes** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:49 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
metalhead wrote:so WHY aren't we breaking down teams at home this season?!

I thought you knew you seem to know every thing yet you asking others for reasons isn't it clear ?

We play with midfield to deep this lets there defenders and midfields close a 5-10 meter gap that most of time traps the ball there.

When you are at home and a team defends it is needed to have a Attacking Midfielder to sit in hole between the defence and midfield of there team to almost suck either a midfieler to them or a defender to them , thus open a hole for your strikers to run into its called a channel.

But even if we did that it wouldn't help bcos rafa only likes torres as a channel runner and won't give babel a fair chance(so if torres is injured we play 2 holding midfielders and we have no real AM and no real channel runner).

So we tend to play with attacks down both flanks but we tend to lack the players to get into near and far post runs to attack those crosses most of time our players stick in center and make it very easy for the cental defender to do what most prem defenders do and head clear.

I would play in all games a pacey forward one that can run channels (torres/babel) and play a player that drop deeper like a kyut.keane behind in the space.

Then i would play gerrard on the right and use him to draw the fall backs out wide to open those gaps for alonso to prob passes into the channels.

But thats just me I am just clueless person that has babel tinted glasses don't listen to me.

You make a lot of sense and I'm surprised that Rafa in all this time has not learned on how to improve our attacking play. I'm no expert at football but it seems so obvious sometimes. This team really needs to work more on improving their short passing game. We would have won today if the players calmed down a bit and tried to do some combinations in the box. Sometimes all it takes some simple one two's to open up a defense, other top teams do it all the time. This is how you should play against teams with tight defenses.

Its all about the timing of passes really to early and the defender will read it and to late and the player has lost the space.

Ones twos are great way of linking build up but most damage in football is done off the ball.

Keane which might be surprise to most is fantastic of the ball I feel when he plays a lone striker you don't see the best of his movement he can at times (when played in the hole) rip teams apart with out touching the ball but rafa has not played him to his strenghts yet !

by **Rush Job** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:14 am

Looking at Keane and Kuyt tonight only one player was desperate for the win.. Kuyt.
Always moving aways showing for the ball, obviously there was a lack of service but as far as I could see Keane was hiding. A few times I noticed Benayoun beat a man running inside towards the front of the box, a westham defender has to come out to address benayoun but Keane instead of making a run into the space created justs stands far post next to his marker.
Now you can talk about confidence and the like but moving into space is primary school stuff, he just wasnt showing for the ball in a intelligent way, so its no supprise he didnt get a chance, way to static and its not just movement for himself im talking about he makes no space for others either.
He`s capable of much better.

by **Rush Job** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:16 am

LegBarnes wrote:Keane which might be surprise to most is fantastic of the ball I feel when he plays a lone striker you don't see the best of his movement he can at times (when played in the hole) rip teams apart with out touching the ball but rafa has not played him to his strenghts yet !

Wheres your evidence to show Keane can play in the hole?

by **LegBarnes** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:20 am

Rush Job wrote:Looking at Keane and Kuyt tonight only one player was desperate for the win.. Kuyt.
Always moving aways showing for the ball, obviously there was a lack of service but as far as I could see Keane was hiding. A few times I noticed Benayoun beat a man running inside towards the front of the box, a westham defender has to come out to address benayoun but Keane instead of making a run into the space created justs stands far post next to his marker.
Now you can talk about confidence and the like but moving into space is primary school stuff, he just wasnt showing for the ball in a intelligent way, so its no supprise he didnt get a chance, way to static and its not just movement for himself im talking about he makes no space for others either.
He`s capable of much better.

At end of day its about trust isn't it football is a trust game players need to be able to trust there peers and like wise trust what there manager is telling them to do.

I see no trust in liverpool atm we pass well when there is no pressure bcos that is training ground kids stuff but when we have to make space and pase into space we lack that cutting edge.

To many times I seen over hit passes or a good pass only for the forward to stop his run not exspecting the pass.

Rafa has to go back to basics I feel in training and get some trust built more so in the way he is setting up the team.

Bcos atm there is no trust in the way we play football and this is showing in final 3rd of pitch.

Also I think rafa just needs to keep it simple lets the plays have more freedom this is a massive leap in gaining trust from players.

I like when you have a child and he wants to go out do you trust him and let him go out or do you lock him up all day only to lose the bond you have with him ?

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:21 am

Just shyte. No more words for now.

by **LegBarnes** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:21 am

Rush Job wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Keane which might be surprise to most is fantastic of the ball I feel when he plays a lone striker you don't see the best of his movement he can at times (when played in the hole) rip teams apart with out touching the ball but rafa has not played him to his strenghts yet !

Wheres your evidence to show Keane can play in the hole?

The 3 years he was a leading player in prem at spurs he played in hole there behind berba and was fantastic.

He plays same role for his country.

Also when he was young at wolves he used to play that role a fair bit and was impressive.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bmM2_FLi1RA&feature=related

Look where most of his runs start from in the hole also note these are his goals not showing the massive number of assists he gets from the hole posistion.

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