Liverpool FC Forum

[Owzat]

The only "thing" that I worry most based on the whole winning-but-playing-badly kind of situation is that

-Co-leaders by Christmas, 4th place by April-

for reasons:

1. We do not have quality squad depth
2. We do not have enough quality players

But then again it's the mother luck. If we could win the Champions league with the likes of traore, biscan, josemi, cisse, etc.. then WHY NOT?

I like the way you expressed the first point, just because we're "joint top" doesn't mean we're going to stay there.

Not so sure about the second point. Winning a cup competition, even with group stages and over two legs most of the rest of the way, is completely different to the league. In the Champions League you have to be better than each opponent over two legs, in the league you have to better the results of every other team. We can only affect Chelsea's results in two games a season, same for the mancs and Arsenal. That's why Chelsea won the Premiership twice and we won the Champions League once, reached another final and had the better of Chelsea in that competition until last season.

Premiership : 38 games x 90 mins = 3,420 mins of football, plus stoppage time

Champions League : 15 games x 90 mins = 1,350 mins football plus stoppage time plus five lots of 30 mins possible extra time

Champions League needs to lose the group stages in my opinion, playing six matches to reduce four teams to two when a two legged tie does it in two games. Most of the time it's the two sides you expect to go through who do.

[andy_g]

our performances aren't as good as they could have been in the last couple of weeks. we have drawn games we should have won and lost games we should have at least drawn. the thing is though that we've also won a couple that we should have drawn or maybe even lost. we're riding our luck at times and we probably need to pick it up a little if we want to stay up top.

i'm guessing that people - i mean us lot - are getting a little nervous though. its squeaky bum time already. we haven't been top of the league at this point for a long long time and we obviously want to stay there. i think we are looking a little bit too hard and maybe being a little over critical. we're winning enough games to stay there and we know we can play better.

if i didn't have such a hangover i could probably express myself much better but hopefully you'll get my drift...

[bigmick]

Champions League needs to lose the group stages in my opinion, playing six matches to reduce four teams to two when a two legged tie does it in two games. Most of the time it's the two sides you expect to go through who do.

Totally agree with that. I caused a bit of a rumble a while back when I said the absolute MINIMUM for any Liverpool manager (or indeed any manager of a big four English club) should be to get out of the group stages of the Champions league. The manager is doing a fine job this season in the Premiership, but I do think that in the past we have allowed ourselves to get a bit carried away with our/his Champions League exploits.

It'll be the same again this season IMHO, at least three English clubs in the last four, and an English club winning it. The competition proper doesn't start till you get to the last eight, and not until the final if you were Man U last season.

[Bam]

Its a good thread opener Ciggy, but I dont understand the need to tell us who Babel is courting, or that Pennants Dad is a crack head !

Neither players have had any impact on our form this season, but the "performance" thing is a darn good question. I am a little worried if truth be told, as of late its seems we cant get out of second gear. I reckon the gearbox is on the blink, why ? I dont honestly know, looking back you can wonder has that defeat at White Hart lane affected us. Our last seven games have seen us drawn two, one three and lost two. Pretty indifferent form and although November around here is known as 'Black November' December in the recent past hasnt been that much better for us.

We've got a few run of games coming up that realisticly we should be winning, but in reality none of these up and coming matches are full gone-conclusions. The likes of Mascha and Riera have very much gone off the boil to, we need the Mascha back who was proving his worth when his contract was in the balance. Same with Riera, his performances have platueaued very much in recent games and we dont have a suitable player to challenge the Spainard for his place, there is no rocket waiting in the wings. Babel isnt the answer there and neither is the Rat for a consistent level of time, add to the fact neither the Rat or Babel give us that same balance and width Riera does.

Maybe the reverting to and from 4-4-2 to 4-2-3-1 has had a slight effect, and this is where a one of our problems lie. Robbie Keane, if he's picked and Torres is fit then we'll play a 4-4-2, if he's dropped or rotated we'll revert back to one upfront.
I like Keane but he's becoming a bit of a problem in that respect, his form isnt there and Rafa has tried the two uptop method and it hasnt really worked amongst the injuries to Torres. I'd keep Keane out of the side for now TBH, at least until our regular players in a regular formation can start stringing a few passes together.

BTW its good to see you posting again Ciggy, at least someone around here is trying to get a good footie topic going. 

[Ciggy]

Its a good thread opener Ciggy, but I dont understand the need to tell us who Babel is courting, or that Pennants Dad is a crack head !

You are correct and Ive edited it I was out of order, but it makes you sick that Pennant has two ferrari''s and doesnt even play, we could be paying someone else his wages.

babel needs to knuckle down and stop making rap songs in Holland, and concentrate on his football IMO.

He has the potential to be a fantastic player, but he has to make a choice a rapper or a football player.

[metalhead]

our performances aren't as good as they could have been in the last couple of weeks. we have drawn games we should have won and lost games we should have at least drawn. the thing is though that we've also won a couple that we should have drawn or maybe even lost. we're riding our luck at times and we probably need to pick it up a little if we want to stay up top.

i'm guessing that people - i mean us lot - are getting a little nervous though. its squeaky bum time already. we haven't been top of the league at this point for a long long time and we obviously want to stay there. i think we are looking a little bit too hard and maybe being a little over critical. we're winning enough games to stay there and we know we can play better.

if i didn't have such a hangover i could probably express myself much better but hopefully you'll get my drift...

spot on, Im worried too, but again hopefully we can keep it up after christmas.

[lakes10]

Its a good thread opener Ciggy, but I dont understand the need to tell us who Babel is courting, or that Pennants Dad is a crack head !

You are correct and Ive edited it I was out of order, but it makes you sick that Pennant has two ferrari''s and doesnt even play, we could be paying someone else his wages.

babel needs to knuckle down and stop making rap songs in Holland, and concentrate on his football IMO.

He has the potential to be a fantastic player, but he has to make a choice a rapper or a football player.

they like the high life, anyway i dont think one of the will be with us much longer and the other one needs to pick what he wants to be, a football player or a rapper, right now he being very poor at both.

[Bam]

Its a good thread opener Ciggy, but I dont understand the need to tell us who Babel is courting, or that Pennants Dad is a crack head !

You are correct and Ive edited it I was out of order, but it makes you sick that Pennant has two ferrari''s and doesnt even play, we could be paying someone else his wages.

babel needs to knuckle down and stop making rap songs in Holland, and concentrate on his football IMO.

He has the potential to be a fantastic player, but he has to make a choice a rapper or a football player.

Dont get me wrong Ciggy I agree with you, both could turn out to be proper wasters.

I just didnt think they've directly affected our performances.

[Ciggy]

I just didnt think they've directly affected our performances.

Your right they havent because neither have hardly played,

one positive though.

What a fantastic keeper we have, got to be one of the best in Europe long may it continue.

[stmichael]

The international break came at precisely the wrong time for us imo. Since coming back from that our players have been so laboured it's unreal. Torres for me is still struggling having played all through the summer and then getting injured. Everything he tries at the moment is nearly coming off but not quite.

I also agree with the notion that we're a better side away from home. It's the same with Chelsea. When teams come to ours and pack the defence we generally struggle. Away from home we have a bit more time and space and can hit teams on the counter.

[stmichael]

Some complete fu.cking overreactions on here as usual

I don't hear anyone saying Chelsea are having a poor season/struggling to break teams down at home/can't win the league.

The fact is we have matched them so far in the league, have a better home record than them (they have drawn 3 and lost 1 at Stamford Bridge already in the league there, and lost to Burnley) and deservedly beat them and United this season already.  Yet because Scolari has them playing a slightly more open style of football they seem beyond criticism.

United are 8 points behind, albeit with a game in hand, and still have the distraction of going to Japan.  They've only played well this season when Ronaldo's been in the team - yet we get slagged off for depending too much on Gerrard/Torres/both (depending on what mood the media/pundits are in).  We've only beaten Chelsea and United without having both of them on the park though.

Last season, or any season under Rafa for that matter, we'd have killed to be in this position with a third of the season gone.  Some people have short memories.

Good post John.

Unfortunately some of the criticism on here and at the ground by all accounts is ridiculously hysterical. Booing the manager for taking off a midfielder who was playing badly instead of another midfielder who was playing badly in a league game we’ve got plenty of time left in, and we’re fricking joint top of the league!

Most of it comes down to not having won the league for 18 years, and it’s understandable. Understandable but also not very intelligent, to put it politely.

[Fo Dne]

Some complete fu.cking overreactions on here as usual

I don't hear anyone saying Chelsea are having a poor season/struggling to break teams down at home/can't win the league.

The fact is we have matched them so far in the league, have a better home record than them (they have drawn 3 and lost 1 at Stamford Bridge already in the league there, and lost to Burnley) and deservedly beat them and United this season already.  Yet because Scolari has them playing a slightly more open style of football they seem beyond criticism.

United are 8 points behind, albeit with a game in hand, and still have the distraction of going to Japan.  They've only played well this season when Ronaldo's been in the team - yet we get slagged off for depending too much on Gerrard/Torres/both (depending on what mood the media/pundits are in).  We've only beaten Chelsea and United without having both of them on the park though.

Last season, or any season under Rafa for that matter, we'd have killed to be in this position with a third of the season gone.  Some people have short memories.

Good post John.

Unfortunately some of the criticism on here and at the ground by all accounts is ridiculously hysterical. Booing the manager for taking off a midfielder who was playing badly instead of another midfielder who was playing badly in a league game we’ve got plenty of time left in, and we’re fricking joint top of the league!

Most of it comes down to not having won the league for 18 years, and it’s understandable. Understandable but also not very intelligent, to put it politely.

Don't even go there.

Mascherano picked it up in the second half against Fulham where as Lucas got worse. Not to mention that joke of a player shouldn't have been on the pitch in the first place. It was clear for everyone who watched the game to see what was wrong, why do you think the crowd were chanting for Alonso from about 25 minutes in?

Lucas is a disgrace to the shirt and Rafa is one for signing him and playing him.

I'm not Mascherano's biggest fan, never have been and never will be. For me he's not the player alot make him out to be but to suggest the likes of Lucas deserves to stay on ahead of him is damn right insanity.

[LegBarnes]

Its a good thread opener Ciggy, but I dont understand the need to tell us who Babel is courting, or that Pennants Dad is a crack head !

You are correct and Ive edited it I was out of order, but it makes you sick that Pennant has two ferrari''s and doesnt even play, we could be paying someone else his wages.

babel needs to knuckle down and stop making rap songs in Holland, and concentrate on his football IMO.

He has the potential to be a fantastic player, but he has to make a choice a rapper or a football player.

Hey ciggy I be away for a bit nice to see you come back.

O by the way performance yeah it was bad wasn't it O my what are we going to do now we are joint top I go get me gun damn no bullets Ok jump out of window o no ground floor flat. 

[zarababe]

This season there is something different about us - theirs  a steeliness about us and we have a self belief that is contagioius - well at least I feel it.

John rightly points out the performances of Chelsea and the Mancs - they r by no means playing as any better.

So lets see what happens, but the best is yet to come cos this team's spine is strooong  and hey even ol moaney head Hansen believes it to.

When Rafa talks of the Valencia  feeling - I know what he means

[metalhead]

so WHY aren't we breaking down teams at home this season?!