Liverpool FC Forum

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:48 pm

was just thinking about this and I feel no way rafa can sell masch just for fact that now masch is captin for agrie's just think of players that could bring to club at later date he can't just sell him as his international career is going so well it would be madness. :suspect:

by **Quadrophenia** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:28 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Quadrophenia wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Maybe Mascherano can defend better than Barry... Oh thats right, Barry came through as a centre half and spent a large part of his career as a left back aswell.

Sol Campbell came through as a centre forward as did Gary Doherty, using your logic they are better attackers than Gerrard because they broke though in that position.

Barry may very well be a better all round player than Mascherano but they don't play the same role. Masch's job is too break up play, something he does a million times better than Barry, and Barry's job (at Villa) is to be the creative spark, something Xabi/Stevie does here. Barry is no replacement for Masch and in my personal opinion, no replacement for Xabi either. This season Barry has been poor because of the arrival of Sidwell who is (apparently) a creative midfielder and Barry is being asked to do a job (holding midfielder) he simply isn't up to. Last season he had Reo-Coker more often than not as a partner which allowed him to express himself more because the former West Ham skipper did his running for him.

Thats a rubbish post.

Campbell and Doherty played probably the odd game upfront. Barry started his career there and played there for years and can still do a very good job in all positions. He can play left back, centre half, left mid and centre mid.

All this holding midfielder and attacking midfielder is what ruins teams and makes them one dimensional. You need central midfielders who can both attack, and defend unless you are a rigid team like Chelsea were under Mourinho with exceptional specialists all over the park.

So the world's second best central midfielder, Kaka, is a good defensive minded player? No.

We have a specialised defensive midfielder in Masch and you want Barry instead? With Barry and Alonso in the middle of the park, there is no pace whatsoever. None. Something which the modern game is heavily reliant on.

Barry for Mascherano? Never.

by **Rush Job** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:19 am

I wouldnt mind Barry as a partner to Alonso, SG on the right or behind Torres and still getting games in the middle.
Only I wouldnt want to sell Masch.

by **Sarge** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:30 am

CardinalRed wrote:He's just been made Captain of Argentina......!! no way should he be allowed to leave

Lucas is the captain of Brazil's youth team and I for one would allow him to leave

by **Rush Job** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:52 am

Sarge wrote:
CardinalRed wrote:He's just been made Captain of Argentina......!! no way should he be allowed to leave

Lucas is the captain of Brazil's youth team and I for one would allow him to leave

For how much? Out of interest.

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:02 am

Quadrophenia wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
Quadrophenia wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Maybe Mascherano can defend better than Barry... Oh thats right, Barry came through as a centre half and spent a large part of his career as a left back aswell.

Sol Campbell came through as a centre forward as did Gary Doherty, using your logic they are better attackers than Gerrard because they broke though in that position.

Barry may very well be a better all round player than Mascherano but they don't play the same role. Masch's job is too break up play, something he does a million times better than Barry, and Barry's job (at Villa) is to be the creative spark, something Xabi/Stevie does here. Barry is no replacement for Masch and in my personal opinion, no replacement for Xabi either. This season Barry has been poor because of the arrival of Sidwell who is (apparently) a creative midfielder and Barry is being asked to do a job (holding midfielder) he simply isn't up to. Last season he had Reo-Coker more often than not as a partner which allowed him to express himself more because the former West Ham skipper did his running for him.

Thats a rubbish post.

Campbell and Doherty played probably the odd game upfront. Barry started his career there and played there for years and can still do a very good job in all positions. He can play left back, centre half, left mid and centre mid.

All this holding midfielder and attacking midfielder is what ruins teams and makes them one dimensional. You need central midfielders who can both attack, and defend unless you are a rigid team like Chelsea were under Mourinho with exceptional specialists all over the park.

So the world's second best central midfielder, Kaka, is a good defensive minded player? No.

We have a specialised defensive midfielder in Masch and you want Barry instead? With Barry and Alonso in the middle of the park, there is no pace whatsoever. None. Something which the modern game is heavily reliant on.

Barry for Mascherano? Never.

Since when's Kaka a central midfielder?

Pace is the most overated attribute in world football, always has been. Its a massive part of why you never see Robbie Fowler or Paul Scholes type players at top clubs anymore.

The most important attribute in the game is passing a ball to a team mate then movement. Footballing attributes are the most important.

The best side we've had under Benitez only had Gerrard with any real pace in it. Besides, Barry isn't exactly slow.

Mascherano is nowhere near as good a player as Gareth Barry. He couldn't even get near Bullard the other day, let alone Barry. Mascherano is good as pressing the ball and winning it, he's a good player, but by christ our own fans over rate him. They really do.

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:04 am

Sarge wrote:Lucas is the captain of Brazil's youth team and I for one would allow him to leave

No mate, you aren't "for one".

You are one of millions. The only person who can't see how bad he is, is the attempt ata manger that manages us.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:04 am

Rush Job wrote:
Sarge wrote:
CardinalRed wrote:He's just been made Captain of Argentina......!! no way should he be allowed to leave

Lucas is the captain of Brazil's youth team and I for one would allow him to leave

For how much? Out of interest.

A single packet of golden wonder.

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:04 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
Sarge wrote:
CardinalRed wrote:He's just been made Captain of Argentina......!! no way should he be allowed to leave

Lucas is the captain of Brazil's youth team and I for one would allow him to leave

For how much? Out of interest.

A single packet of golden wonder.

An empty packet?

by **Bam** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:09 am

Mascherano is good as pressing the ball and winning it, he's a good player, but by christ our own fans over rate him. They really do.

What, like you overated Pennant ?

by **Quadrophenia** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:14 am

Fo Dne wrote:
Quadrophenia wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
Quadrophenia wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Maybe Mascherano can defend better than Barry... Oh thats right, Barry came through as a centre half and spent a large part of his career as a left back aswell.

Sol Campbell came through as a centre forward as did Gary Doherty, using your logic they are better attackers than Gerrard because they broke though in that position.

Barry may very well be a better all round player than Mascherano but they don't play the same role. Masch's job is too break up play, something he does a million times better than Barry, and Barry's job (at Villa) is to be the creative spark, something Xabi/Stevie does here. Barry is no replacement for Masch and in my personal opinion, no replacement for Xabi either. This season Barry has been poor because of the arrival of Sidwell who is (apparently) a creative midfielder and Barry is being asked to do a job (holding midfielder) he simply isn't up to. Last season he had Reo-Coker more often than not as a partner which allowed him to express himself more because the former West Ham skipper did his running for him.

Thats a rubbish post.

Campbell and Doherty played probably the odd game upfront. Barry started his career there and played there for years and can still do a very good job in all positions. He can play left back, centre half, left mid and centre mid.

All this holding midfielder and attacking midfielder is what ruins teams and makes them one dimensional. You need central midfielders who can both attack, and defend unless you are a rigid team like Chelsea were under Mourinho with exceptional specialists all over the park.

So the world's second best central midfielder, Kaka, is a good defensive minded player? No.

We have a specialised defensive midfielder in Masch and you want Barry instead? With Barry and Alonso in the middle of the park, there is no pace whatsoever. None. Something which the modern game is heavily reliant on.

Barry for Mascherano? Never.

Since when's Kaka a central midfielder?

Pace is the most overated attribute in world football, always has been. Its a massive part of why you never see Robbie Fowler or Paul Scholes type players at top clubs anymore.

The most important attribute in the game is passing a ball to a team mate then movement. Footballing attributes are the most important.

The best side we've had under Benitez only had Gerrard with any real pace in it. Besides, Barry isn't exactly slow.

Mascherano is nowhere near as good a player as Gareth Barry. He couldn't even get near Bullard the other day, let alone Barry. Mascherano is good as pressing the ball and winning it, he's a good player, but by christ our own fans over rate him. They really do.

Robbie Keane is hardly blistering and he's at a top club.
Cesc Fabregas is hardly the quickest yet he's at a top club.
Michael Carrick (Scholes' apparent replacement) is hardly up there with Usain Bolt but he's at a top club.
Lampard (Scholes' replacement for England) is hardly speedy gonzales but he's a top club.
Our very own Xabi Alonso was told he wasn't going to Italy because he was too slow.

Thankfully there's only four top clubs because I've ran out of quick comparisons. There are still many players in top clubs who don't have pace, both in the middle of the park and up front, the difference is they have legs beside them. Keane has Torres, Fabregas did have Flamini now has Denilson (both :censored:

granted), Carrick has Hargreaves or Anderson who'll run all day, Lampard has had Makelele, Essien and now Mikel, Xabi has Masch and before Sissoko.

You need to have pace between one of a pair in the centre of midfield and one with pace up front. For that very reason Xabi and Barry won't work as a pair which is why it was Alonso we were looking to offload for Barry.

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:22 am

Quadrophenia wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
Quadrophenia wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
Quadrophenia wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Maybe Mascherano can defend better than Barry... Oh thats right, Barry came through as a centre half and spent a large part of his career as a left back aswell.

Sol Campbell came through as a centre forward as did Gary Doherty, using your logic they are better attackers than Gerrard because they broke though in that position.

Barry may very well be a better all round player than Mascherano but they don't play the same role. Masch's job is too break up play, something he does a million times better than Barry, and Barry's job (at Villa) is to be the creative spark, something Xabi/Stevie does here. Barry is no replacement for Masch and in my personal opinion, no replacement for Xabi either. This season Barry has been poor because of the arrival of Sidwell who is (apparently) a creative midfielder and Barry is being asked to do a job (holding midfielder) he simply isn't up to. Last season he had Reo-Coker more often than not as a partner which allowed him to express himself more because the former West Ham skipper did his running for him.

Thats a rubbish post.

Campbell and Doherty played probably the odd game upfront. Barry started his career there and played there for years and can still do a very good job in all positions. He can play left back, centre half, left mid and centre mid.

All this holding midfielder and attacking midfielder is what ruins teams and makes them one dimensional. You need central midfielders who can both attack, and defend unless you are a rigid team like Chelsea were under Mourinho with exceptional specialists all over the park.

So the world's second best central midfielder, Kaka, is a good defensive minded player? No.

We have a specialised defensive midfielder in Masch and you want Barry instead? With Barry and Alonso in the middle of the park, there is no pace whatsoever. None. Something which the modern game is heavily reliant on.

Barry for Mascherano? Never.

Since when's Kaka a central midfielder?

Pace is the most overated attribute in world football, always has been. Its a massive part of why you never see Robbie Fowler or Paul Scholes type players at top clubs anymore.

The most important attribute in the game is passing a ball to a team mate then movement. Footballing attributes are the most important.

The best side we've had under Benitez only had Gerrard with any real pace in it. Besides, Barry isn't exactly slow.

Mascherano is nowhere near as good a player as Gareth Barry. He couldn't even get near Bullard the other day, let alone Barry. Mascherano is good as pressing the ball and winning it, he's a good player, but by christ our own fans over rate him. They really do.

Robbie Keane is hardly blistering and he's at a top club.
Cesc Fabregas is hardly the quickest yet he's at a top club.
Michael Carrick (Scholes' apparent replacement) is hardly up there with Usain Bolt but he's at a top club.
Lampard (Scholes' replacement for England) is hardly speedy gonzales but he's a top club.
Our very own Xabi Alonso was told he wasn't going to Italy because he was too slow.

Thankfully there's only four top clubs because I've ran out of quick comparisons. There are still many players in top clubs who don't have pace, both in the middle of the park and up front, the difference is they have legs beside them. Keane has Torres, Fabregas did have Flamini now has Denilson (both granted), Carrick has Hargreaves or Anderson who'll run all day, Lampard has had Makelele, Essien and now Mikel, Xabi has Masch and before Sissoko.

You need to have pace between one of a pair in the centre of midfield and one with pace up front. For that very reason Xabi and Barry won't work as a pair which is why it was Alonso we were looking to offload for Barry.

For a start, none of the players you mentioned are slow. They all have average pace. Scholes and Fowler didn't. So your comparrisons are rubbish.

By your theory why didn't our pace in midfield dominate Fulham's the other week? Truth is, Murphy and Bullard had Mascherano and Lucas off all game. Murphy and Bullard are both slower than Lucas, let alone Mascherano.

Carrick has Hargreaves or Anderson? No mate,the last time United won the title Carrick had Scholes next to him lad more often than not. Also, the first season they signed Carrick they partnered him with Scholes and that brought them a title. Neither of which have pace.

As I've said, pace is overated. Balance is important, I agree with that. But Balance isn't always one quick and one slow. Footballing attributes matter more in football than being a fast runner. End of arguement.

by **Quadrophenia** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:32 am

I won't continue this deabte because you no longer need me to make yourself look stupid.

Your opening line was "none of the players you mentioned are slow" then you go to talk about United and say Carrick (one of the players I mentioned) doesn't have pace. So I take it he's quick without having pace? OK like I said we'll end it here.

One final thing though, as for the Fulham game that's simple. They had two slighty better than average players in the middle, we had one on a off day and one totally useless midfielder. All the pace in the world won't save you if you don't have any football ability. That's the difference, you need ability to get somewhere. Fowler and Scholes had enough ability to counter their lack of pace, Masch doesn't so relies on the pace he does have. Barry doesn't have the pace nor does he have the ability to play instead of Masch.

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:37 am

Quadrophenia wrote:I won't continue this deabte because you no longer need me to make yourself look stupid.

Your opening line was "none of the players you mentioned are slow" then you go to talk about United and say Carrick (one of the players I mentioned) doesn't have pace. So I take it he's quick without having pace? OK like I said we'll end it here.

No mate, the reason you aren't continuing the debate has everything to do with the fact that you've just been proven wrong.

Carrick is fairly slow, the other players aren't however. Carrick and Scholes between them had no pace. Yet United won the league.

Kind of :censored:

your arguement doesn't it.

by **Quadrophenia** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:49 am

Fo Dne wrote:
Quadrophenia wrote:I won't continue this deabte because you no longer need me to make yourself look stupid.

Your opening line was "none of the players you mentioned are slow" then you go to talk about United and say Carrick (one of the players I mentioned) doesn't have pace. So I take it he's quick without having pace? OK like I said we'll end it here.

No mate, the reason you aren't continuing the debate has everything to do with the fact that you've just been proven wrong.

Carrick is fairly slow, the other players aren't however. Carrick and Scholes between them had no pace. Yet United won the league.

Kind of your arguement doesn't it.

No because United also had Anderson in there on more than a few occasions, including against us both times.

Also just for your infomation...Xabi Alonso is slow.

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