Liverpool FC Forum

by **DanAn** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:13 am

I think neat and tidy is a perfect description. Defensively Gerrard, Mash and this year Alonso all have a bit of mongrel in them and Lucas definitely lacks that. He chases as hard as anyone but Gerrard, Mash and Alonso seem to hunt the ball and fight for it once it's in dispute. Lucas lacks that hard edge. In the past (prior to this year) I thought Alonso used to be a bit like Lucas in this regard but at least Alonso always had his killer passing to fall back on.

Offensively Lucas is a little vanilla. His movement is good, he creates space for his midfield partner and genrally hit up his targets but isn't damaging with the ball. That's fine when playing along side Alonso or Gerrard because his movement creates space for his midfield partner to be damaging. But when he is partnered along side Plessis, he gets found out.

He's a solid player and I think people are being a bit harsh on the lad but I think he looks like he will be a good DM for a club like West Ham or Blackburn. But he doesn't belong at a club like Liverpool. He doesn't have that special talent, neither defensively like Mash nor offensively like Alonso, to be at a top premiership club.

by **dame** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:14 am

My best hope is that he a Dunga or Gilberto silva-type Brazilian midfielder.

Tbh, defence-wise, not many players is better than Mash. Mash is one of the best at reading body movement and steal the ball from opponent. Playing alongside Mash make him look poor. Not to mention Gerrard or Alonso. So what can he do in midfield other than 5-yard pass to nearest teammate?

In short, he is not good enough (not easy is given we have SG, Xabi and Mash) to play regularly in central part of midfield. And obviously he is not good at playing in the flank.

So the solution is use him as substitute for Mash or when we need to defend.

by **Rush Job** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:24 am

Fook me, now dont get me wrong because it feels strange being in the Lucas corner being as in the past ive been in about 80% agreement with stu on the lad (he dont rate him).
Now lets be sure about something, he isnt and (as far as I know) was never bought as a defencive mid.
We saw his natural game when a player he trusted (Alonso) came on to sit and give him the ball further up the field and IMO he looked a different player a little live wire (now im not trying to say he played great) he was poppng up in good possitions and everytime he got the ball he was looking for the forward pass instead of passing responsiblity side ways to another.
Remember that run of prem games he got at the end of last season where he played further forward I seem to remember at least one assist for pennent and I`m pritty sure he scored one his self but memory fails at this point but the reason i`m bringing it up is even though top players were constantly being rested in the league it wasnt a bad wee run we went on was it?
Now I dont know if he`s ever really going to make it with us but I know the difference between a poor player and a player short of confidence and short of minutes on the pitch be it for the first team or the ressies add to that a player who`s often paired with the wrong partner or not give the freedom to play his natural game, to the extent that half the forum doesnt even know what possition he plays.
If he doesnt make it with us IMO he`ll be a good player for another if he`s trusted and give time and the chance to gain match fitness and confidence, might not be quite at the standard we are looking for but then who really knows? Not us.

by **Owzat** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:52 pm

I'm not surprised he wasn't great, I couldn't see how a midfield with Plessis and Lucas in it together could work BEFORE the game and I'm still wondering why it was even contemplated. Two young midfielders feeling their way slowly in English football, either with a senior head next to them would have made more sense.

So what RJ says about the transformation is no surprise. I think Rafa boobed bigtime over last night's game, the only thing that did go right was that it didn't go to extra time. Of the other two games under Rafa that we've conceded 4+ goals, wasn't one a 6-3 in the Carling Cup against Arsenal? Maybe he should let someone else pick and manage the side for the CC games

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:04 pm

dame wrote:So what can he do in midfield other than 5-yard pass to nearest teammate?

How about putting in killer through balls. I have seen him do this more than a couple of times. His movement and positioning in the box is also top class.

This kid's got talent but obviously he's suffering from the lack of playing time and our immobility. Did you not see how he improved in the second half yesterday? That was because we had better movement and he actually had a midfield partner.

by **tubby** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:07 pm

His best game was when he came on for Gerrard in that Derby last season. Since then he has been terrible. He scored a neat goal against H&W but for the most part he is a waste of space.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:16 pm

bavlondon wrote:His best game was when he came on for Gerrard in that Derby last season. Since then he has been terrible. He scored a neat goal against H&W but for the most part he is a waste of space.

Are you forgetting Chelsea and Arsenal away last season. Plus he didn't look out of place against Inter milan.

by **Rush Job** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:25 pm

Owzat wrote:I'm not surprised he wasn't great, I couldn't see how a midfield with Plessis and Lucas in it together could work BEFORE the game and I'm still wondering why it was even contemplated. Two young midfielders feeling their way slowly in English football, either with a senior head next to them would have made more sense.

Yes mate thats just the way I see it.
I dont understand Rafa when he signs a player because of past performance in a role and then feels the need to try and change him into something else, something the player isnt really comfortable with.
And with the amount of time he`s seeing on the (any) pitch and the fact when he does get on he`s asked to do something that isnt his natural game or is paired with a player who IMO likes to hide (Plessis) and play all his passes to the closest man, which means passing it back or sideways, so for Lucas to get the ball he has to drop to within 6 yards of him.
I`m not going to go as far as to say he`s being treated badly but we are deffinately not playing to his strenths or even giving him the chance to get match fit and gain a little confidence.
When he got that run at the end of last season he didnt let us down, chipping in with assists and a goal or maybe two, at very least earning his wage.
I dont think the set up we have at the moment is a good thing for young players like Lucas, El zar, etc. How can we expect them to play with confidence or even match fitness when there not seeing minutes for the the first team or the ressies?

by **calkop** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:38 pm

He is not as bad as you all are making him out to be. If you are looking for scapegoats for last nights nightmare then look no further than Degen, Plessis, dossena and Calveri. Lucas did not have anyone around him to help keep a cool head and control the game. He made the defense splitting pass to Degen when Degen went in half speed to "try" and score a goal and ended up kicking the goalkeeper in the head. Once Alonso was on the pitch and Darby and Insua were at fullback the team was much better and had the confidence to play the ball around and had the ability to actually keep the ball. Lucas looked a much better player in the second half, and to be honest I believe he is the only player that started that could actually say he played well. He is a good player and will come good. You guys really need to look somewhere else for the scapegoat. Plessis? Maybe even Rafa with that shocking team.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:59 pm

calkop wrote:He is not as bad as you all are making him out to be. If you are looking for scapegoats for last nights nightmare then look no further than Degen, Plessis, dossena and Calveri. Lucas did not have anyone around him to help keep a cool head and control the game. He made the defense splitting pass to Degen when Degen went in half speed to "try" and score a goal and ended up kicking the goalkeeper in the head. Once Alonso was on the pitch and Darby and Insua were at fullback the team was much better and had the confidence to play the ball around and had the ability to actually keep the ball. Lucas looked a much better player in the second half, and to be honest I believe he is the only player that started that could actually say he played well. He is a good player and will come good. You guys really need to look somewhere else for the scapegoat. Plessis? Maybe even Rafa with that shocking team.

When was your last eye test?

With the exception of Dossena, Lucas has been the worse performer based on appearances than any other player we have. He is the footballing equivalent of Celery.

by **Rush Job** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:11 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
calkop wrote:He is not as bad as you all are making him out to be. If you are looking for scapegoats for last nights nightmare then look no further than Degen, Plessis, dossena and Calveri. Lucas did not have anyone around him to help keep a cool head and control the game. He made the defense splitting pass to Degen when Degen went in half speed to "try" and score a goal and ended up kicking the goalkeeper in the head. Once Alonso was on the pitch and Darby and Insua were at fullback the team was much better and had the confidence to play the ball around and had the ability to actually keep the ball. Lucas looked a much better player in the second half, and to be honest I believe he is the only player that started that could actually say he played well. He is a good player and will come good. You guys really need to look somewhere else for the scapegoat. Plessis? Maybe even Rafa with that shocking team.

When was your last eye test?

With the exception of Dossena, Lucas has been the worse performer based on appearances than any other player we have. He is the footballing equivalent of Celery.

I dont think thats right, not at all mate, what about agaist the bitters when he came on for SG and as good as won the game, what about agaist, chelsea, arsenal or inter milan? What about the run he got at the end of last season, when even though top players were rested we still put on a good run? Of course our collective attention was else where at the time.

by **calkop** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:13 pm

You really think the lad has no class? Watch last nights game again if you did watch it. If you did not please don't waste my time. He was getting stuck in. He made two defense splitting passes to Degen that if Gerrard or Alonso had made you would have been creaming your pants. The one where Degen kicked the keeper should have been a goal. No excuse. He went in half speed. The other was a clear penalty. In another game we would have tied and we would all be singing another tune.

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:10 pm

calkop wrote:You really think the lad has no class? Watch last nights game again if you did watch it. If you did not please don't waste my time. He was getting stuck in. He made two defense splitting passes to Degen that if Gerrard or Alonso had made you would have been creaming your pants. The one where Degen kicked the keeper should have been a goal. No excuse. He went in half speed. The other was a clear penalty. In another game we would have tied and we would all be singing another tune.

Isn't it strange that so many people missed his obvious class last night

BTW I'm kidding, the lad is garbage, he doesn't get me excited by his play in the same way as Gerrard, Keane, Torres, Babel, Riera, Alonso, Mascha even Kuyt on rare occasions do. That is how I judge a player. If I don't notice them in a match, except for CB's and goalie, then I consider they've had a bad match, so last night I didn't really notice anybody :sleep

by **GYBS** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:13 pm

then you must of had your eyes closed .just cause e isnt the same standard as gerrard masher etc doesnt mean he is garbage. also didi went through games unoticed plenty of times doing simple but effective work - did you think he was garbage or had a bad game ?

by **akumaface** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:31 pm

I think most of us are sterotyping Brazilian players that they must be skillful with flair. I think this is certainly not the case. Lucas was the captain of the Under 21 Brazilian team. I suppose he has the character and attitude to do it. Unfortunately, I think this is all he has. I've been saying this ever since he came to LFC that all he had done on a consistent basis is fouling people and 5 yds pass. He really isn't suited to play in the EPL. I rather have players from the reserve such as Pachaeo than Lucas. Rafa sometimes have blind faith which back fires most of the time. Anyway, just sell him and get guthrie back as he is a better option than Lucas for sure.

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