Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:53 pm

woof woof ! wrote:check my facts ? , Listen sunshine, Five years in this forum and I'm almost flattered that as old as I am I can still remember you tellin' us all that Earnshaw would be a great signing for LFC, especially whilst you the author of such sh'ite have now conveniently forgotten it.

If yer knob was long enough I'd suggest you go yerself.

In fairness woofster, Bigmick is the culprit on that one, not Stu :;):

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:58 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:Agree with Stu about Johnson, he was poor at Chelsea and defensively he still isnt the best but going forward he is a world apart from anything we have. His goal at Everton proved that when he showed superb movement in the final third.
He is decent in the air quick, strong and can beat a man at times.
Harry would probably ask a fortune if we enquired but he would be a top signing imo.

We need a defender at right back if we are going to employ Torres, Gerrard, KEane, Riera and Kuyt in that fluid front five. not a defensive liability, which is what Johnson is.

ITs great saying the defender does the attacking well, or scores goals but if he cant defend then whats the fuc.king point ?

by **andy_g** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:02 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:ITs great saying the defender does the attacking well, or scores goals but if he cant defend then whats the fuc.king point ?

then we go the keegan route and score one more than them

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:13 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:Agree with Stu about Johnson, he was poor at Chelsea and defensively he still isnt the best but going forward he is a world apart from anything we have. His goal at Everton proved that when he showed superb movement in the final third.
He is decent in the air quick, strong and can beat a man at times.
Harry would probably ask a fortune if we enquired but he would be a top signing imo.

We need a defender at right back if we are going to employ Torres, Gerrard, KEane, Riera and Kuyt in that fluid front five. not a defensive liability, which is what Johnson is.

ITs great saying the defender does the attacking well, or scores goals but if he cant defend then whats the fuc.king point ?

Well Rafa wont always play that front five mate, he proved that against city away last weekend and will again quite alot i would guess.
Johnson can be a poor defender and would get exposed at times, but i wouldnt go as far as saying he is a liability.
Also he would get plenty of protection and cover from Kuyt who is the player that would likely be ahead of him.
An add onto that is the way we play, i am sure the way we press teams and the fact that we often have two holding players he would get even further cover if he were to get caught out of position.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:23 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:Agree with Stu about Johnson, he was poor at Chelsea and defensively he still isnt the best but going forward he is a world apart from anything we have. His goal at Everton proved that when he showed superb movement in the final third.
He is decent in the air quick, strong and can beat a man at times.
Harry would probably ask a fortune if we enquired but he would be a top signing imo.

We need a defender at right back if we are going to employ Torres, Gerrard, KEane, Riera and Kuyt in that fluid front five. not a defensive liability, which is what Johnson is.

ITs great saying the defender does the attacking well, or scores goals but if he cant defend then whats the fuc.king point ?

Well Rafa wont always play that front five mate, he proved that against city away last weekend and will again quite alot i would guess.
Johnson can be a poor defender and would get exposed at times, but i wouldnt go as far as saying he is a liability.
Also he would get plenty of protection and cover from Kuyt who is the player that would likely be ahead of him.
An add onto that is the way we play, i am sure the way we press teams and the fact that we often have two holding players he would get even further cover if he were to get caught out of position.

This season:

Team A Goals Conceded : 4

Team B Goals Conceded : 16

Guess which one Arbeloa plays for and which one Johnson plays for.

by **woof woof !** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:25 pm

john craig wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:check my facts ? , Listen sunshine, Five years in this forum and I'm almost flattered that as old as I am I can still remember you tellin' us all that Earnshaw would be a great signing for LFC, especially whilst you the author of such sh'ite have now conveniently forgotten it.

If yer knob was long enough I'd suggest you go yerself.

In fairness woofster, Bigmick is the culprit on that one, not Stu

You sure ? Either way he can still go and :censored:

himself.

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:32 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:Agree with Stu about Johnson, he was poor at Chelsea and defensively he still isnt the best but going forward he is a world apart from anything we have. His goal at Everton proved that when he showed superb movement in the final third.
He is decent in the air quick, strong and can beat a man at times.
Harry would probably ask a fortune if we enquired but he would be a top signing imo.

We need a defender at right back if we are going to employ Torres, Gerrard, KEane, Riera and Kuyt in that fluid front five. not a defensive liability, which is what Johnson is.

ITs great saying the defender does the attacking well, or scores goals but if he cant defend then whats the fuc.king point ?

Well Rafa wont always play that front five mate, he proved that against city away last weekend and will again quite alot i would guess.
Johnson can be a poor defender and would get exposed at times, but i wouldnt go as far as saying he is a liability.
Also he would get plenty of protection and cover from Kuyt who is the player that would likely be ahead of him.
An add onto that is the way we play, i am sure the way we press teams and the fact that we often have two holding players he would get even further cover if he were to get caught out of position.

This season:

Team A Goals Conceded : 4

Team B Goals Conceded : 16

Guess which one Arbeloa plays for and which one Johnson plays for.

I dont need to guess i know the answer.

I am looking at the bigger picture though, you swap the two of them around and do you think it would make a major difference to the amount we concede, given the way we play ?

I think it would make a MAJOR improvement to our ability going forward and breaking teams down, his movement is positive and clever and he is decent on the ball as well.
I would sacrifice some of the defensive stability for more offensive purpose personally.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:50 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:I think it would make a MAJOR improvement to our ability going forward and breaking teams down, his movement is positive and clever and he is decent on the ball as well.
I would sacrifice some of the defensive stability for more offensive purpose personally.

MAjor ?

not nit picking but please quantify this for me. You reckon it would lead to five more goals ? Ten more goals or just better attacking play.

As far as I can see, going forward we are spot on.

City game the other day, it was defending that let us down. In fact two of the four we conceded this season where against City. A stronger right back (in Arbeloas position) maybe would have put the ball in row Z. A better wall would have prevented that free kick (or at least made it not so fuc.king easy for the lad to score !!).

If it aint broken, then dont fix it.

If you where telling me Dani Alves was the person to replace Arbeloa then I would listen to you, but Johnsen is no Dani Alves.

Another thing to consider, would he get into any other top four (hate that expression) side ?

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:00 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:I think it would make a MAJOR improvement to our ability going forward and breaking teams down, his movement is positive and clever and he is decent on the ball as well.
I would sacrifice some of the defensive stability for more offensive purpose personally.

MAjor ?

not nit picking but please quantify this for me. You reckon it would lead to five more goals ? Ten more goals or just better attacking play.

As far as I can see, going forward we are spot on.

City game the other day, it was defending that let us down. In fact two of the four we conceded this season where against City. A stronger right back (in Arbeloas position) maybe would have put the ball in row Z. A better wall would have prevented that free kick (or at least made it not so fuc.king easy for the lad to score !!).

If it aint broken, then dont fix it.

If you where telling me Dani Alves was the person to replace Arbeloa then I would listen to you, but Johnsen is no Dani Alves.

Another thing to consider, would he get into any other top four (hate that expression) side ?

Major meaning he would give us an overall far bigger threat and give Kuyt or whoever is wide right and outlet, Arbeloa doesnt do that often enough.
Its difficult to say how many goals it could create. Its more the effect it would have on the opposing team, its far easier to stop a team if the full backs are static and when the wide players get the ball there is no overlap, even if its ignored it puts the opposing full back in a very awkward position as more often than that the other teams midfielder has not tracked our full back.
I know you know all this by the way, and am genuinely surprised you dismiss more effective attacking full backs can have.
I think Johnson is better than Wes Brown personally who has been uniteds right back all season and no worse than Sagna either. Bosingwa he isnt.

I think you are basing alot of your opinion on him when he was at Chelsea.
Agreed he is still prone to getting caught out defensively but with our team we work that hard off the ball if we lose it i really think you could give him some freedom and we would benefit more attacking wise than the amount it would destabilise the defence.

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:55 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
john craig wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:check my facts ? , Listen sunshine, Five years in this forum and I'm almost flattered that as old as I am I can still remember you tellin' us all that Earnshaw would be a great signing for LFC, especially whilst you the author of such sh'ite have now conveniently forgotten it.

If yer knob was long enough I'd suggest you go yerself.

In fairness woofster, Bigmick is the culprit on that one, not Stu

You sure ? Either way he can still go and himself.

And you're a moderator?

Bellend alert! :no

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:56 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:Agree with Stu about Johnson, he was poor at Chelsea and defensively he still isnt the best but going forward he is a world apart from anything we have. His goal at Everton proved that when he showed superb movement in the final third.
He is decent in the air quick, strong and can beat a man at times.
Harry would probably ask a fortune if we enquired but he would be a top signing imo.

We need a defender at right back if we are going to employ Torres, Gerrard, KEane, Riera and Kuyt in that fluid front five. not a defensive liability, which is what Johnson is.

ITs great saying the defender does the attacking well, or scores goals but if he cant defend then whats the fuc.king point ?

Well Rafa wont always play that front five mate, he proved that against city away last weekend and will again quite alot i would guess.
Johnson can be a poor defender and would get exposed at times, but i wouldnt go as far as saying he is a liability.
Also he would get plenty of protection and cover from Kuyt who is the player that would likely be ahead of him.
An add onto that is the way we play, i am sure the way we press teams and the fact that we often have two holding players he would get even further cover if he were to get caught out of position.

This season:

Team A Goals Conceded : 4

Team B Goals Conceded : 16

Guess which one Arbeloa plays for and which one Johnson plays for.

Is that really your arguement?

Seriously thats as good as you can come up with?

:laugh:

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:00 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:I think it would make a MAJOR improvement to our ability going forward and breaking teams down, his movement is positive and clever and he is decent on the ball as well.
I would sacrifice some of the defensive stability for more offensive purpose personally.

MAjor ?

not nit picking but please quantify this for me. You reckon it would lead to five more goals ? Ten more goals or just better attacking play.

As far as I can see, going forward we are spot on.

City game the other day, it was defending that let us down. In fact two of the four we conceded this season where against City. A stronger right back (in Arbeloas position) maybe would have put the ball in row Z. A better wall would have prevented that free kick (or at least made it not so fuc.king easy for the lad to score !!).

If it aint broken, then dont fix it.

If you where telling me Dani Alves was the person to replace Arbeloa then I would listen to you, but Johnsen is no Dani Alves.

Another thing to consider, would he get into any other top four (hate that expression) side ?

Major meaning he would give us an overall far bigger threat and give Kuyt or whoever is wide right and outlet, Arbeloa doesnt do that often enough.
Its difficult to say how many goals it could create. Its more the effect it would have on the opposing team, its far easier to stop a team if the full backs are static and when the wide players get the ball there is no overlap, even if its ignored it puts the opposing full back in a very awkward position as more often than that the other teams midfielder has not tracked our full back.
I know you know all this by the way, and am genuinely surprised you dismiss more effective attacking full backs can have.
I think Johnson is better than Wes Brown personally who has been uniteds right back all season and no worse than Sagna either. Bosingwa he isnt.

I think you are basing alot of your opinion on him when he was at Chelsea.
Agreed he is still prone to getting caught out defensively but with our team we work that hard off the ball if we lose it i really think you could give him some freedom and we would benefit more attacking wise than the amount it would destabilise the defence.

According to Leon any player outside the top four clubs isn't worth talking about. You're wasting your time, you might aswell just agree that we'll conceed more goals and he'll offer us nothing going forward because Arbeloa is a great right back. :laugh:

by **Bam** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:18 am

Quote Leon.

If it aint broken, then dont fix it.

I agree with that. Its funny how many of the 'anti-rotationalist's' carry on about keeping by and large an inform side, and telling Rafa to keep it that way rather than changing things around when there isnt the need to.

But now my commrades, well certainly some of them (anti-rotationalist's) are telling us that now we need new fullbacks. Okay there may come a time, January the most likely when Rafa may look at bringing in a new fullback. As it stands he cannot do this now, and can only go with the players he's got, but its not a situation thats causing alarm bells to ring. Certainly both fullbacks may seem weaker than any other position, but as Stu keeps on harping about to me ... "its a team game". At the moment those fullbacks, well certainly Arbeola is part of a team and a defensive unit that is doing rather well. It doesnt need urgently fixing because it isnt broken.

In saying that though, I seem to go against the grain of general opinion around here. Where I think Arbeloa is less defensively a liabilty than Aurelio and possibly Dossena. Arbeloa is doing a decent enough job there from where I'm sitting albeit 11,000 miles away. But never the less he isnt exposed as this weak link in the defence as some have suggested. IMO I'd say Aurelio is more prone to that, and he did have a shocker against Citeh IMO.

I think Rafa is finding LB more of problem than the RB, even though he may not have the options at RB as oppossed to LB to choose between. But if Arbeola was that bad in his opinion and was such a glaringly obvious liability Rafa at he worste could shuvCarra out there with either two of Hyypia, Agger and Skertel in the middle. But Rafa hasnt had to resort to this, which must tell you that he's pretty satisfied with Arbeloa as of which so am I.

At LB Rafa seems to go from one game to the next in either playing Dossena or Aurelio, I dont think he knows yet of which of the two should hold down the place. Its a dodgey position that possibly does run the risk of being 'broken'. And I'd suggest in playing Dossena in the home games at Anfield, against the likes of Wigan as IMO het gets forward more and looks much better at this, he does impose himself down that left flank, although some of his crosses have tended to hit row Z in the stands. If he can settle in, I'm hoping defensively he'll look better than Aurelio.

All in all, Arbeloa, Dossena even Aurelio are playing a part in a team thats on form and doing well, unbeaten this season. Why change that if its working ?

by **Toffeehater** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:29 am

GYBS wrote:One player who i woould of liked to off seen us sign was hutton - strong in defence and solid going forward . looks a very very decent player and think will get better .

Good shout , would love hutton here .

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:31 am

GYBS wrote:no idea but he sent me a pm with a load of numbers in it ???

he sent me an email asking me if i wanna buy a dead hat.

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