Liverpool FC Forum

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:43 am

samurai3000 wrote:good facts mate.. i always say anyway rafa is a [email=tw@t..]tw@t..[/email] He has spent alot like you have just shown us and still complains about funds.. Only riena was the best signing in 2005..From each of the year you could only pick a few that are worth mentioning. Lets just face facts rafa will never be the manager fergie is. Fergies mentality is brilliant, just look at the team unity mancs have. Even without ronaldo they still play as a good team. Rafa is shyte!

Well then go support manure and that drunk, red nosed :censored:

!

by **aCe'** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:09 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
samurai3000 wrote:good facts mate.. i always say anyway rafa is a [email=tw@t..]tw@t..[/email] He has spent alot like you have just shown us and still complains about funds.. Only riena was the best signing in 2005..From each of the year you could only pick a few that are worth mentioning. Lets just face facts rafa will never be the manager fergie is. Fergies mentality is brilliant, just look at the team unity mancs have. Even without ronaldo they still play as a good team. Rafa is shyte!

Well then go support manure and that drunk, red nosed !

well he could have dressed it up a little but at the end of the day he does have a good point and im sure you see it too..

FB Josemi - 2
WG Garcia – 6
FW Crouch - 7
CM Sissoko - 6
WG Gonzales - 4.5
FW Morientes - 6.3
WG Pennant - 7
FW Kuyt – 9
CB Paletta - 2
FW Bellamy - 6
CB Agger – 6
CM Mascherano - 18
FB Arbeloa - 2.6
CM Lucas - (6-8)
WG Leto - 2
WG Benayoun - 5
WG Babel - 11.5
CB Skrtel - 6.5
FB Dossena - 7
FW Keane - 20.3
FW N'gog - 1.5
GK Cavalieri - 3.5
WG Rieira – 8

Ok forget about all the free youngsters and free transfers and really cheap players.. also forget about all the wages we paid those players… just look at the list above..

TOTAL PAID FOR PLAYERS ABOVE : 155.7 million

When Rafa took over we had Gerrard, Carragher, Riise, Finnan, Hyypia, Kewell, Hamann… + others…
Wasn’t as bad a side as some try to make it out to be !
Basically, we needed a GK (Reina), CM (Alonso signed before Masch so there you go) RM ? , LM ? , FW (Torres), FW? and probably another center back (Agger or Skrtel) ..
Reina – 6
Alonso - 10.5
Torres – 26
TOTAL PAID FOR PLAYERS ABOVE : 42.5 million

Besides the 42.5 million above, I think that Rafa basically spent the rest of that 200mill or so he spent on players who were either absolute :censored:

, player we didnt need, or players who just werent good enough

160 million spent signing
3 center backs – 14.5
3 fullbacks – 11.6 million
7 wingers – 44 million
3 central midfielders – 32million
6 strikers – 50.1 million

Okay... i know he hasnt spent them all in one season but he has spent alot pretty much every season.. last couple of seasons more so perhaps.. anyways.. after we signed Alonso and Reina in 2004-2005 we should have paid big money for a class winger in 2006-2007 instead of going for the likes of PENNANT, KUYT, BELLAMY, dare i say MASCHERANO, LUCAS, LETO, BENAYOUN, BABEL, even the signings this summer KEANE, N'GOG, RIERA...etc for around 100 million..

i think we would have all been alot happier signing 2 great wingers to play along with Gerrard and Alonso in the middle instead of all the central midfieders and forwards and sht wingers we have gone for...

by **aCe'** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:11 am

INSOMNIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:20 am

aCe' wrote:ok im really getting sick of this whole benitez cant comptete financially BS...

lets just try to set the records straight so...

i bet theres a million other threads out there that have this information but since we'r already discussing it here we might as well have it here..

BENITEZ HAS SPENT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS ON PLAYERS WHO HAVENT IMPROVED US ENOUGH SINCE TAKING OVER SO STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE EXCEPT FOR HIM ...

Somebody will dispute the numbers, and probably with justification as a couple of them look like you've tweaked the likely truth a bit in order to better make your point.

Other people will point out, once again with justification, that whereas Rafa had to almost rebuild his team, Ferguson was able to merely build upon a group of players which had already enjoyed huge success.

One or two will allude to the fact that by and large the Man Utd boss is able to pick up his preferred choice of player, whereas Rafa on occasions has to settle for his second or third choices.

They probably won't mention Arsenal who have rebuilt the entire team in the last four seasons for a good deal less than we have.

When all said and done though, facts or interpretations of numbers aren't going to make anybodies minds up at this stage. Those who believe Rafa has done a superb job have already said so and have pretty well nailed their flags to the mast accordingly. Similarly, those who think the "five year plan" began to run out of puff a couple opf seasons ago have also made their feelings plain.

For my part, I still believe and hope that there's time for the manager to write himself into the History books alongside the great Liverpool managers. I don't think he'll achieve it by revisiting mistakes which have been made consistently over the last four seasons, but I live in hope that we are about to embark on a somewhat more "conventional" segment of his tenure. The money arguments been done though. We've spent around 108 million quid over the last fourteen months or so by my back of a fag packet calculations, so I think even the managers staunchest advocates would probably agree that as a defence, that one holds less and less water as time goes on.

Step one in writing his name in history of course is almost upon us. I'm not sure any Liverpool manager worth his salt could realistically expect to be considered amongst the greats of the past if he was unable, ever, to beat Manchester United in the league. Rafa's had eight goes now, and in seven of them we didn't actually manage to score a goal so an improvement is overdue regardless of how much money we've spent compared to them.

If we can beyond this game at some point get ourselves involved in the title race, just for a bit, then we might have a debate after all.

by **aCe'** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:29 am

bigmick wrote:
aCe' wrote:ok im really getting sick of this whole benitez cant comptete financially BS...

lets just try to set the records straight so...

i bet theres a million other threads out there that have this information but since we'r already discussing it here we might as well have it here..

BENITEZ HAS SPENT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS ON PLAYERS WHO HAVENT IMPROVED US ENOUGH SINCE TAKING OVER SO STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE EXCEPT FOR HIM ...

Somebody will dispute the numbers, and probably with justification as a couple of them look like you've tweaked the likely truth a bit in order to better make your point.

Other people will point out, once again with justification, that whereas Rafa had to almost rebuild his team, Ferguson was able to merely build upon a group of players which had already enjoyed huge success.

One or two will allude to the fact that by and large the Man Utd boss is able to pick up his preferred choice of player, whereas Rafa on occasions has to settle for his second or third choices.

They probably won't mention Arsenal who have rebuilt the entire team in the last four seasons for a good deal less than we have.

When all said and done though, facts or interpretations of numbers aren't going to make anybodies minds up at this stage. Those who believe Rafa has done a superb job have already said so and have pretty well nailed their flags to the mast accordingly. Similarly, those who think the "five year plan" began to run out of puff a couple opf seasons ago have also made their feelings plain.

For my part, I still believe and hope that there's time for the manager to write himself into the History books alongside the great Liverpool managers. I don't think he'll achieve it by revisiting mistakes which have been made consistently over the last four seasons, but I live in hope that we are about to embark on a somewhat more "conventional" segment of his tenure. The money arguments been done though. We've spent around 108 million quid over the last fourteen months or so by my back of a fag packet calculations, so I think even the managers staunchest advocates would probably agree that as a defence, that one holds less and less water as time goes on.

Step one in writing his name in history of course is almost upon us. I'm not sure any Liverpool manager worth his salt could realistically expect to be considered amongst the greats of the past if he was unable, ever, to beat Manchester United in the league. Rafa's had eight goes now, and in seven of them we didn't actually manage to score a goal so an improvement is overdue regardless of how much money we've spent compared to them.

If we can beyond this game at some point get ourselves involved in the title race, just for a bit, then we might have a debate after all.

I CANT SLEEP !

IM IN BED HOLDING A CALCULATOR AND ALMOST DONE WITH MY 3rd PACK OF CIGS !

TELL ME SOMETHING I DONT KNOW...

why are you soo... well... politicall..diplomatic... i dont know ? why arent you in bed ?!

by **aCe'** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:32 am

and no i ddnt tweak any numbers i rounded up and down but never more than 200K so if you see any wrong numbers let me know please ill edit them..

bottom line... he spent a fck lot more than people say or pretend he did and its gettting pretty boring hearing the same tune whether it be from him or some of the posters down here !

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:45 am

The bit about why I aren't in bed is easy mate. It's 4.30 in the afternoon here and not really my time for turning in. Diplomatic? doesn't matter how diplomatic you are mate, some still can't stand you lol.

by **samurai3000** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:53 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
samurai3000 wrote:good facts mate.. i always say anyway rafa is a [email=tw@t..]tw@t..[/email] He has spent alot like you have just shown us and still complains about funds.. Only riena was the best signing in 2005..From each of the year you could only pick a few that are worth mentioning. Lets just face facts rafa will never be the manager fergie is. Fergies mentality is brilliant, just look at the team unity mancs have. Even without ronaldo they still play as a good team. Rafa is shyte!

Well then go support manure and that drunk, red nosed !

If i say fergie is a clever manager does'nt mean that i should go and support the mancs you needle d(i)ck. Same goes with wenger and ex chelsea mourinho...good managers..

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:06 am

Ace, I agree that Rafa has bought some really crappy players over the years, but do you really think that if he got 200 million at the start of his first season, that he would just spend it on players like Pennant and Josemi? If he got 200 million from the start, I'm sure that we'd have a pretty awesome team right now.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:19 am

samurai3000 wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:
samurai3000 wrote:good facts mate.. i always say anyway rafa is a [email=tw@t..]tw@t..[/email] He has spent alot like you have just shown us and still complains about funds.. Only riena was the best signing in 2005..From each of the year you could only pick a few that are worth mentioning. Lets just face facts rafa will never be the manager fergie is. Fergies mentality is brilliant, just look at the team unity mancs have. Even without ronaldo they still play as a good team. Rafa is shyte!

Well then go support manure and that drunk, red nosed !

If i say fergie is a clever manager does'nt mean that i should go and support the mancs you needle d(i)ck. Same goes with wenger and ex chelsea mourinho...good managers..

You praise Ferguson, who only wins trophies because he manipulates the FA, but you call our manager shyte, when he has made this club into one of the most feared teams in Europe again. I'd think again at who's the d!ck around here.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:19 am

Similarly, those who think the "five year plan" began to run out of puff a couple opf seasons ago

Sorry to just quote one line mate but I think its important, to me anyway. I really thought Rafa would go on from his great start in his first two seasons. I really believed he would build a title winning team over the next couple of years. I expected a title challenge and then maybe if we were lucky the title.

What I didn't expect was that 05/06 was perhaps a bit of a fluke rather than a taste of things to come, and that we would stagnate in the league. I hoped 06/07 was just a bad season, and really felt that last season (07/08) we had the team to win the league. When it all came tumbling down again last year I was devastated, others pick different games but for me it was the draw with Wigan at home when I admitted to myself that the league was lost. I lost something else that day, I lost all faith in us ever winning the league under Rafa.

I no longer believe Rafa will win the league, cups yes but not the league, not without a dramatic change in his methods, and I don't think thats likely. People make all sorts of excuses for why we have failed to challenge and no doubt some of them are valid points, but after 4 years I no longer believe in Rafa and his methods where the league is concerned.

As you know I was a supporter of rotation and thought that it would prove its self, but gradually I lost faith in rotation as the effects undeniably cost us points, passing through sensible rotation, then on to keeping a core of our best players, before I abandoned faith in it completely. His substitutions seem to get stranger as the years go by, his team selections at times are baffling, while his faith in certain players seems almost suicidal.

I have never believed its all about money....... good managers get the best out of their players, and unfortunately we have seen substandard team performances all too often over the years. We certainly could have done better with the players at our disposal in the league than we did the last couple of years.

People say the league is much harder to win now as the top sides win the league with 89/90/91 points, but that hardly matters when you are only getting seventy-odd points does it!

If I thought for a minute that he had got the best out of our players and that was the best they could possibly achieve I would be as happy clappy as the next man ...... my problem is I think we could have done so much better.

I hope I am totally wrong and we walk away with the title, thrash the mancs and Rafa goes on to great success........ but I no longer believe it.

If we beat the mancs please ignore this post

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:28 am

aCe' wrote:and no i ddnt tweak any numbers i rounded up and down but never more than 200K so if you see any wrong numbers let me know please ill edit them..

bottom line... he spent a fck lot more than people say or pretend he did and its gettting pretty boring hearing the same tune whether it be from him or some of the posters down here !

Rafael Benítez bought 52 players for £190,616,000

Rafael Benítez sold 55 players for £92,075,000

liverpool history net

So I would reckon on Rafa's net spend being somewhere around £100million give or take £10million

Not saying your wrong Ace' but thats the best I can do.

by **aCe'** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:28 am

samurai3000 wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:
samurai3000 wrote:good facts mate.. i always say anyway rafa is a [email=tw@t..]tw@t..[/email] He has spent alot like you have just shown us and still complains about funds.. Only riena was the best signing in 2005..From each of the year you could only pick a few that are worth mentioning. Lets just face facts rafa will never be the manager fergie is. Fergies mentality is brilliant, just look at the team unity mancs have. Even without ronaldo they still play as a good team. Rafa is shyte!

Well then go support manure and that drunk, red nosed !

If i say fergie is a clever manager does'nt mean that i should go and support the mancs you needle d(i)ck. Same goes with wenger and ex chelsea mourinho...good managers..

mate no one gets 200 mill when they become manager but just look at the way manutd spent less on better players... players they actually needed... then look at us signing 50sumthing players in some 4 years ... only few of which are any good or are needed in the first place...
surely u dont need to buy if you cant find anyone whos good enough...
anyways off to trying to sleep here...
GO LIVERPOOLLLLL

we have to beat the scuum :censored:

if we dont i might as well lose a testicle !

by **aCe'** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:31 am

s@int wrote:
aCe' wrote:and no i ddnt tweak any numbers i rounded up and down but never more than 200K so if you see any wrong numbers let me know please ill edit them..

bottom line... he spent a fck lot more than people say or pretend he did and its gettting pretty boring hearing the same tune whether it be from him or some of the posters down here !

Rafael Benítez bought 52 players for £190,616,000

Rafael Benítez sold 55 players for £92,075,000

liverpool history net

So I would reckon on Rafa's net spend being somewhere around £100million give or take £10million

Not saying your wrong Ace' but thats the best I can do.

oh i think i know where i went wrong... with us and MANUTD that is...

for transfers out i didnt include this years transfers...

would bring the number closer to the one you have im guessing...

anyways... why arent you in bed ?

by **aCe'** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:32 am

and FCK ME ... 55 players in 4 years ? what are we running here ?

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