Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:19 am

Rubbish. Experience doesn't give players something they never have. It never has and never will. It annoys me the amount "experts" go on about experience, it means very very little.

Boll0ks Stu.

Experiance and ability are TWO WAY TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS !

I'm saying Skertel HAS the ability, and only lacks experiance : Ie Learning from mistakes, getting caught ball watching etc..... Players CAN AND DO LEARN FROM EXPERIANCE, it has f.uck all to do with ability.

It seems to be everyones arguement, give him games, he'll improve, they never do. Does Torres need games? Did Alonso? Did Mascherano? Did Gerrard when he came through? Did Fowler, Owen? Rooney?

Hmmm I wonder why you didnt use Carragher as an example, because you no full well the geezer has matured like a fine bottle of Red in that position.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:10 am

RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
RedBlood wrote:All there is to say on the matter really. - Fo Dne Mar. 29 2008,02:12

well thats it then boys we might aswell close the thread

Learn how to use the quote button...

Loooooooooooool

du u wnt me 2 tork like dis 4 u?

no mate you can talk how you like and maybe while your at it go out and talk to some girls then maybe you wont be on an internet forum all night desperately wanting to be acknowledged looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

so fecking childish
grow the feck up redblood

by **RedBlood** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:45 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
RedBlood wrote:All there is to say on the matter really. - Fo Dne Mar. 29 2008,02:12

well thats it then boys we might aswell close the thread

Learn how to use the quote button...

Loooooooooooool

du u wnt me 2 tork like dis 4 u?

no mate you can talk how you like and maybe while your at it go out and talk to some girls then maybe you wont be on an internet forum all night desperately wanting to be acknowledged looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

so fecking childish
grow the feck up redblood

who asked you?

whats up does that hit a sore spot for you? :sniffle

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:52 am

RedBlood wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
RedBlood wrote:All there is to say on the matter really. - Fo Dne Mar. 29 2008,02:12

well thats it then boys we might aswell close the thread

Learn how to use the quote button...

Loooooooooooool

du u wnt me 2 tork like dis 4 u?

no mate you can talk how you like and maybe while your at it go out and talk to some girls then maybe you wont be on an internet forum all night desperately wanting to be acknowledged looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

so fecking childish
grow the feck up redblood

who asked you?

whats up does that hit a sore spot for you?

dont cry

looooool

0k 0k. haha lets get back on topic instead of seeing who can type a longer ''lol''

by **maguskwt** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:09 pm

Fo Dne wrote:Rubbish. Experience doesn't give players something they never have. It never has and never will. It annoys me the amount "experts" go on about experience, it means very very little.

You either have it, or you don't as a player. Experience makes a good player better, it doesn't make average players good or even great for that matter.

All experience does is helps you to fine tune your skills and get the best out of yourself. Look at Ferdinand and Gerrard, Gerrard is still impatient and rushes things on occassion, Ferdinand STILL lacks concentration even though he's a fantastic centre half.

Players never gain something they don't have. Hyypia came over here as a 24/25 year old, he had it, simple as that. You can just see it, great players produce. Simple as that.

It doesn't matter whether you're a keeper, a centre back, a winger or forward. Football is football and players that aren't good enough won't all of a sudden become good enough no matter how many games they play. It seems to be everyones arguement, give him games, he'll improve, they never do. Does Torres need games? Did Alonso? Did Mascherano? Did Gerrard when he came through? Did Fowler, Owen? Rooney? The answers crystal, they just had it. Even Agger who is massively overated by our own, he's good, really good. You can see it from day one, you can also see he's never the best in the league.

All there is to say on the matter really.

if you're so good why don't you go work as a scout for some big club... us, the mancs, chelsea, arsenal, real, barca, ac milan? :laugh:

since you know how good a player is by watching 10 mins and you also can tell for certain whether or not a player will improve... I of course think that 60% of what you say is c-rap

no offence... for one thing gerrard during his first year was nothing spectacular... and carragher during his early twenties can only be classified as a slow mediocre defender who often got caught out of position... and I don't need to tell you how they've turned out...

by **Sabre** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:50 pm

Experience in the CB position is a good thing to have. And I back my arguement with a fact. If you pick a national squad, you'll see how many CB reach the international status when they're 28-29. Some Spaniards have reached international status at 30. The Goalie position is another one.

Another arguement to prove this theory is that many good midfielders like Hierro, ended up their careers as CB. And players like Maldini, who were wing men, ended up as CB aswell. Definitely CB is a position in which experience is welcome.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:28 pm

Sabre wrote:Experience in the CB position is a good thing to have. And I back my arguement with a fact. If you pick a national squad, you'll see how many CB reach the international status when they're 28-29. Some Spaniards have reached international status at 30. The Goalie position is another one.

Another arguement to prove this theory is that many good midfielders like Hierro, ended up their careers as CB. And players like Maldini, who were wing men, ended up as CB aswell. Definitely CB is a position in which experience is welcome.

yes sabre... look at the german goal keepers for example... they only reach their heights when they reach 30... old farts like Oliver Kahn and Jens Lehmann

... one thing I'm not fond of in english football is that they overhype and depend on the young players so much instead of letting them develop... in the end these players had to handle alot of pressure... a few of them managed to survive like owen, rooney... but most of them couldn't take the pressure and fissled... like dyer, jenas... even then owen's career can be said to have burnt out prematurely...

by **Sabre** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:53 pm

But that's a new tradition in England. When I was a child one of the names that was most famous in my country alongside the Dalglish and Keegans, whas a keeper, Peter Shilton. Who I think played for a lot of years. Seaman also played a lot of years with his moustache.

I see a lot of quality in English defences, also in the middle and also up front , but the keepers are not very good at the moment.

by **ConnO'var** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:54 pm

Bamaga man wrote:Experiance and ability are TWO WAY TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS !

I'm saying Skertel HAS the ability, and only lacks experiance : Ie Learning from mistakes, getting caught ball watching etc..... Players CAN AND DO LEARN FROM EXPERIANCE, it has f.uck all to do with ability.

It seems to be everyones arguement, give him games, he'll improve, they never do. Does Torres need games? Did Alonso? Did Mascherano? Did Gerrard when he came through? Did Fowler, Owen? Rooney?

Hmmm I wonder why you didnt use Carragher as an example, because you no full well the geezer has matured like a fine bottle of Red in that position.

Good post Bamaga....

I don't subscribe to the "ability cannot be improved with time" theory.... There have been occasions where a players' ability comes to the fore after they've matured a bit more.... Granted, it's not often that it happens but it does happen.... the glaring example is the emergence of Luca Toni... who arrived on the scene at a fairly advanced age in footballing terms.

If someone wants it enough and is smart enough, then "old dogs" can learn new tricks. Agree with Stu in that in doesn't happen often but disagree that it NEVER happens.

It pre-supposes that as you get older, your ability to learn something new or improve on existing skills completely erodes.. physically there are limits but new skills can be learnt/improved IMO...

by **Pepe25** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:58 pm

Liverpool simply dont have enough old heads around the squad........everyone these days is obsessed with young players ie u25.....this is coming from a 22 year old.... Carra (Hyppia, Finann-didnt play) are the few players around the 30 mark... 3 of man utd's best players are plus 30 - giggs scholes van der saar--- all of them have made plenty of mistakes in the past --they all know how to compete consistenly at the highest level.....I think it would be great to get a couple of 28 year olds into our team- the title would be a lot more attainable then- its a mix of youth and old heads that will will the title.... ( mAYBE Im wrong!!)
Lucas Levia and Ryan Babel surely cant be expected to win us a league at their age????Torres matured at A Madrid.... Agger is only 24 so is Srktel.....pennant is young , mascherano is just 23 (isnt he)
I really think we would benefit from adding a couple of these players---- nesta, zambrotta,crespo,juninho.makaay, seedof, toni,sagnol.oddo, cannaravo........

by **Pepe25** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:19 pm

I just think with would be refreshing for torres and babel to have a few old world class heads in their team to give give them assurance..... I know if I was on the field against Manure id have more confidence seeing a guy life del piero or nedved there---- maybe that just me

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:22 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:and like most on here you take every word literally. I'll tell you what, don't read my posts and we'll get along fine because you don't seem to see any positives in any single player.

I see the positives in many players, I also see the weaknesses and glaring weaknesses.

I can see Torres and Gerrard are fantastic players with immense ability, I can see Reina, despite his weakness for crosses and claiminig the ball under pressure is one of the best keepers in the league and in the world.

I can also see that Liverpool FC lack the quality to win the premiership and am not blinded by rediculous favouratism.

You praise every player and only talk about the positives.

The only two players we have that are world class are Gerrard and Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina and Agger are excellent players but aren't in the top bracket and never will be. Beyond that the teams got very limited ability, in other words, put Gerrard and Torres in Everton's side and would they have a better team? I'd say yes all day long.

put Reina, Alonso, Mascheranho or Agger in everton's team and everton would have a better side.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:29 pm

Pepe25 wrote:I just think with would be refreshing for torres and babel to have a few old world class heads in their team to give give them assurance..... I know if I was on the field against Manure id have more confidence seeing a guy life del piero or nedved there---- maybe that just me

agreed.

by **Scottbot** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:30 pm

I've got no problems with the formation and i've got no problem with Gerrard's role within it. it's all plain and simple from where i'm sitting. We lack the players in wide positions, we're decidadley average at Full-back and on the wing. We've got good players, plenty of them, Finnan, Aurelio, Riise, Arbeloa, Pennant, Bennayoun etc are all pretty handy. You'd fancy them to get the job done most of the time against the likes of Birmingham, Newcastle, Villa etc but in a side with title aspirations they all fall a little short of the mark. Rafa has a talent for sorting the spine of the team, Reina, Carra, Agger, Gerrard, Alonso, Masch, Torres. All excellent players. If he could replicate anything close to that line-up on the flanks we'd be flying.

Assuming he is back for another season next year then this is surely his task for the summer. My wish list isn't as long as some and I know we need to bring in another forward but the absolute top targets for me would be a full-back and someone VERY special to play on the wing (either wing). But who knows if the money will be there? He can raise a few quid from the squad i'm sure but that's only if he decides to shift the emphasis away from rotation. I figure it'll cost 30-35 mill to bring in proven quality to fill these two positions alone, at least if he's to bring in someone along the lines of Lahm/Alves at FB or Quaresma/Ribery for the wing.

Stu lad, you'll have to re-add me on msn coz you've dissapeared off my contacts list now, assume you must have new address now?

by **Scottbot** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:32 pm

Pepe25 wrote:I just think with would be refreshing for torres and babel to have a few old world class heads in their team to give give them assurance..... I know if I was on the field against Manure id have more confidence seeing a guy life del piero or nedved there---- maybe that just me

I see where you're coming from mate and there's no doubt someone in the mould of Gary Mac would be a massive benefit to some of the younger players. I was absolutely gutted when the Figo transfer fell through a couple of seasons back.

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