Liverpool FC Forum

[Pepe25]

sorry ...im just rubbish on a key board. it wont happen again

[LFC2007]

YOU BETTER MAKE SURE OF IT.

[NANNY RED]

YOU BETTER MAKE SURE OF IT.

Wait while i take me hearin aid out your to loud

Now shut up

[maypaxvobiscum]

YOU BETTER MAKE SURE OF IT.

[banana]

babel and skrtel arent good players?

arebola has a lack of pace and passing ability?

you really are a pleb

i think most people say IF this happens they will go on to be great players but theres nothing wrong with being positive and saying WHEN

Great post again, your excellent you.

Am dead jealous! You're boss you lad....

So this is Stu?

Hey there lad, just back to give you a beatin for old times sake. What ya say old chap...

just kiddin,,, I suppose we have had our disagreements but with Kuyt I suppose we agreed from day 1. I disliked Kuyt a lot last year as his movement, pace and skills were so limited. I remember a couple of friends making fun of me after I had talked all day of how Kuyt was, and then he scored 2. But I guess I got them in the end.

It is quite amazing how people actually gave him credit for the game at old trefford, in my book he:

made zero crosses
had zero shots on target
won zero free kicks
won zero corners
made zero dribbles

how you can credit a wing player with such stats is crazy. I reckon we need two strikers next year (as Kuyt and Voronin is horrible and Crouch only can work as an impact player for the last 15 minutes), one right winger and a left back.

It is going to be hard and expensive to find the necessary quality.

What is your prediction for the derby?

I only predict Europe, I've won 3 bets in europe this season, none in the premier league.

What happened to you anyway? You stopped posting for ages, thought you was dead. Lol (joke).

The place went down hill after you left, you stopped being allowed to debate and it become all politically correct with to many cryers who couldn't take being called a name.

Well. To be honest a lot of know nothing guys came about and the real debates died. I became discouraged.

I still follow LFC and I still have strong opinions about players, staff, formation, rival teams etc.

What happened to you? Have you been banned? They can't handle a bit of fire and passion in here?

And if you have received 4 warnings for your comments on this thread it is absolutely ridicoulus.

[maguskwt]

ok back to this "new system"... it seems as of now the weakness in this formation's getting more and more obvious...

when we play masch and alonso we seem to do ok, when we play masch and lucas we also seem to do ok, but when we play alonso and lucas, now that highlights the weakness of this formation. Alonso is somehow still struggling in the middle. I really don't know what happened to this guy who used to show class and calmness on the ball. Lucas shows moments of goodness but also erroneous moments, overhitting passes and sloppy passes. Even Gerrard gesticulated fustratingly at him for mishitting a simple pass back to him on a break (this shouldn't do good for his confidence). With alonso and lucas, we are simply too lightweight and cannot boss the midfield. So what happens is that Gerrard has to track back and do some midfield work, leaving torres isolated up front. Now when that happens it wouldn't be too bad if our wingers have more quality to carry the ball and link up with torres. But sadly enough our wingers are not. Babel runs straight like a 100m sprinter but moves sideways like a handicap. His mind is always set on trying something without full commitment...he often loses the ball to the opponent in the end. Kuyt on the right for me is slightly better. he wins the ball and he passes the ball, he puts in crosses, but he's not dangerous enough.

So, our 4-2-3-1 becomes very negative when alonso and lucas couldn't dominate the midfield. All in all, we don't have enough quality players to challenge for the title yet and whatever formation we come up with, we will do well if it's a suitable formation for our personel but there will always be some weakness that will be exposed. I don't really wanna praise the mancs but they  have far more superior players. If you watch their match against villa, their players have so much individual talent that giggs, ronaldo, rooney and tevez were all playing free role. they were interchanging positions so much that the villa defenders were all over the place. At times it seems like they were playing 4-2-4 instead of 4-4-2. As a result ronaldo scored 1, rooney 2 and tevez 1. Sadly we are not yet able to play like that. Who besides torres gets into goalscoring positions? Kuyt has started to do so abit but without any success. Gerrard scores goals from long range mostly because of his pure talent which is not gonna happen every game. And that's about it...

[RedBlood]

i think what rafa is doing with this formation is trying to get an attacking 4 but still keeping a solid foundation so we dont go all newcastley, i think at the moment we have torres and gerrad but we need the other 2 to really make this formation tick, i think rafa feels babel could be one of them with a little time and if so i agree but we definately need another winger/forward instead of kuyt and a couple of attacking fullbacks with the energy to get up and down the flanks.
personally i think we have a left back in emiliano insua but would try and sign alves at all costs

[Bad Bob]

ok back to this "new system"... it seems as of now the weakness in this formation's getting more and more obvious...

when we play masch and alonso we seem to do ok, when we play masch and lucas we also seem to do ok, but when we play alonso and lucas, now that highlights the weakness of this formation. Alonso is somehow still struggling in the middle. I really don't know what happened to this guy who used to show class and calmness on the ball. Lucas shows moments of goodness but also erroneous moments, overhitting passes and sloppy passes. Even Gerrard gesticulated fustratingly at him for mishitting a simple pass back to him on a break (this shouldn't do good for his confidence). With alonso and lucas, we are simply too lightweight and cannot boss the midfield. So what happens is that Gerrard has to track back and do some midfield work, leaving torres isolated up front. Now when that happens it wouldn't be too bad if our wingers have more quality to carry the ball and link up with torres. But sadly enough our wingers are not. Babel runs straight like a 100m sprinter but moves sideways like a handicap. His mind is always set on trying something without full commitment...he often loses the ball to the opponent in the end. Kuyt on the right for me is slightly better. he wins the ball and he passes the ball, he puts in crosses, but he's not dangerous enough.

So, our 4-2-3-1 becomes very negative when alonso and lucas couldn't dominate the midfield. All in all, we don't have enough quality players to challenge for the title yet and whatever formation we come up with, we will do well if it's a suitable formation for our personel but there will always be some weakness that will be exposed. I don't really wanna praise the mancs but they  have far more superior players. If you watch their match against villa, their players have so much individual talent that giggs, ronaldo, rooney and tevez were all playing free role. they were interchanging positions so much that the villa defenders were all over the place. At times it seems like they were playing 4-2-4 instead of 4-4-2. As a result ronaldo scored 1, rooney 2 and tevez 1. Sadly we are not yet able to play like that. Who besides torres gets into goalscoring positions? Kuyt has started to do so abit but without any success. Gerrard scores goals from long range mostly because of his pure talent which is not gonna happen every game. And that's about it...

Good post, mate.  I agree that the Alonso-Lucas combination didn't have quite the same steel yesterday and that our wide players aren't quite as tidy/creative with the ball to make the formation truly tick.  Red Blood's point about the fullbacks is key as well.  We need overlapping runs down the flanks to truly stretch defenses and to open up channels for the wingers to exploit.  Having Carragher at fullback is not going to help that but, then again, it was the derby so scrappiness is always going to be the order of the day.  To truly make this system work we need better quality on both flanks.

[stmichael]

I'm still not fully convinced by "the system" because we've only really seen it in operation against poorer sides or teams with ten men where Gerrard has had plenty of space to operate. I was worried that it might come unstuck against better opposition and that looked like it was happening against United even before Mascherano was sent off.

However it's still undoubtedly the best system for us at the moment with the players we have at our disposal.

[Judge]

the system is predictable at best, which is why we dont get better results against the better teams above us at present.

i would like to see more of a mix, with invention and to feet swift passing. a settled team is a better one thru the whole season, which is why i hate rotation (cue big mick )

passion to get the ball back is also what i would like to see more of. a team cant score against you if they dont have the ball. our system fails there a little, imo

[maypaxvobiscum]

the system is predictable at best, which is why we dont get better results against the better teams above us at present.

i would like to see more of a mix, with invention and to feet swift passing. a settled team is a better one thru the whole season, which is why i hate rotation (cue big mick )

passion to get the ball back is also what i would like to see more of. a team cant score against you if they dont have the ball. our system fails there a little, imo

1) kuyt to distract the keeper thus making him come out of his box. as soon as it happens, pass the ball to alonso.

2) during corners, scare opponents by threatening to pull down their shorts if they jump.

thats 2 for you judge. 

[god_bless_john_houlding]

How people can slag this system off is beyond me. But then again I see sense and truth rather than stupidity and patheticness like some.

We lost to a side top of the league, at their ground and for most of the game we had 10 men. Yet it's all the formations fault? No it's not. It's the players and staffs fault...why? OK this is why...the players showed no passion or belief (again) that they can beat a top side in the league. The players expected defeat from the word go and never really looked as if they wanted to win. Every 50/50 challenge United won. Every header United won. United won everything, playing pretty much the same system. The staff (mainly Benitez) should of realised this system wasn't working for this particular game and changed it sooner rather than later but he didn't because it was still 1-0 after an hour and we were still down to ten men which Benitez thinks is a good result because it's not an embarrassing defeat. But of course United go two and then three up while Benitez sticks to the system that clearly isn't working for this particular day. Now everyone will tell you that the biggest key to this system working is PACE something which Babel and Torres have in a bundance yet Benitez decides to bring Riise (slower than a snail) and Benayoun (slightly but only just quicker than Riise) on for Babel and Torres and then the masterstroke Kuyt (slow as ) goes up front

The system wasn't working because United knew how to counter it, because Ferguson is a great manager who got the better of Benitez in that game and their players wanted to win the game a lot more than ours. But it's not the systems fault because it's not the system who performs to that pathetic standard of football.

Also we outplayed Inter Milan over two legs with this system but I keep forgetting that these players suddenly become worth a million times more when Europe is involved and when it says Champions League next to a fixture they suddenly become superstars with a bit of grit between their teeth. Load of overpaid arrogant embarrassing ponses that we have at this club. They honestly think that all they have to do is just turn up to certain games and they'll win. This is proven by the fact that we had just a single point from our opening three in europe. One poxy point then because they realise they're not going to reach the further stages and get even more money in their pockets they decide to pull their finger out and do something about it, when in truth they shouldn't of been in that situation in the first place. I read a piece by Phil Thompson today and it said in it "we were on the coach coming home and we'd just lost a game but some of us will still smiling and laughing, then Tommy Smith walked to back of the coach and asked us "what do you have to smile about, you've just lost the game" That's what needs to be said to most of that current squad. They go around will little pride or love for the club and don't care because they're still picking up wage packets. Embarassing isn't a strong enough word for how some of those players are. They're not even fit to lace the boots of those in years gone by.

[Bad Bob]

The staff (mainly Benitez) should of realised this system wasn't working for this particular game and changed it sooner rather than later but he didn't because it was still 1-0 after an hour and we were still down to ten men which Benitez thinks is a good result because it's not an embarrassing defeat. But of course United go two and then three up while Benitez sticks to the system that clearly isn't working for this particular day. Now everyone will tell you that the biggest key to this system working is PACE something which Babel and Torres have in a bundance yet Benitez decides to bring Riise (slower than a snail) and Benayoun (slightly but only just quicker than Riise) on for Babel and Torres and then the masterstroke Kuyt (slow as ) goes up front

Some relevant points:

1) When you are down to 10 men you play 4-4-1.  End of.  You don't see how it goes for an hour and then try a different approach--you stick as many men behind the ball as you can and hope to nick one from a set piece.  It's ridiculous to blame Rafa for not changing things up as the game unfolded under those circumstances.

2) Babel offers very little help in terms of keeping possession which is what you need most (even more than pace) when you're down to 10 men, hence the Benayoun substitution.  Torres came off after their second to get a much needed rest given that he plays every match.

Bottom line: once Mascherano went off Rafa had very, very few options.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

so bob you're under the impression that you go 1-0 down in goals and players and you don't try and score you just soak up pressure and hope to nick one on the break?

OK let's just take that point..."on the break" what break do you have with Benayoun, Riise and Kuyt as the attacking three? Break...they'd be lucky to break sweat. The forward three should of been Gerrard, Babel and Torres that way you have a bit of pace to break on.

[Bad Bob]

so bob you're under the impression that you go 1-0 down in goals and players and you don't try and score you just soak up pressure and hope to nick one on the break?

OK let's just take that point..."on the break" what break do you have with Benayoun, Riise and Kuyt as the attacking three? Break...they'd be lucky to break sweat. The forward three should of been Gerrard, Babel and Torres that way you have a bit of pace to break on.

Babel didn't get a touch prior to the substitution and we couldn't keep the ball.  He's also a liability defensively and, for all of his pace, he's fairly easy to neutralize if defenders can match his pace (like United's can) and if they show him onto his weak foot.  The smart move was and is to bring Benayoun on.  He's good in possession, can track back and can bring teammates into play effectively.  It was the right substitution without question.