Liverpool FC Forum

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:13 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:and like most on here you take every word literally. I'll tell you what, don't read my posts and we'll get along fine because you don't seem to see any positives in any single player.

I see the positives in many players, I also see the weaknesses and glaring weaknesses.

I can see Torres and Gerrard are fantastic players with immense ability, I can see Reina, despite his weakness for crosses and claiminig the ball under pressure is one of the best keepers in the league and in the world.

I can also see that Liverpool FC lack the quality to win the premiership and am not blinded by rediculous favouratism.

You praise every player and only talk about the positives.

The only two players we have that are world class are Gerrard and Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina and Agger are excellent players but aren't in the top bracket and never will be. Beyond that the teams got very limited ability, in other words, put Gerrard and Torres in Everton's side and would they have a better team? I'd say yes all day long.

by **DRARREG8** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:14 am

the formation 4-5-1 is awesome but it need a hard working midfielders. the thing is that when you play with a one striker u should depend on the wings and the middle so we have to depend on babel and benayoun or any one else cuz we should vary our strikes once from the middle from alonso and gerrard and once from the wings because if the defence shuted down the middle we should open the wings. as we observed from the match against man utd that the wingers lack to the confidence and i don't know what is the reason cuz i know that babel is a star player but i'm confident that he is the player that we can depend on but he is always afraid from trying his luck so i think this is our main problem that we depend on two players or three and we have the ability to vary our style of play in the same match.

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:15 am

DRARREG8 wrote:the formation 4-5-1 is awesome but it need a hard working midfielders. the thing is that when you play with a one striker u should depend on the wings and the middle so we have to depend on babel and benayoun or any one else cuz we should vary our strikes once from the middle from alonso and gerrard and once from the wings because if the defence shuted down the middle we should open the wings. as we observed from the match against man utd that the wingers lack to the confidence and i don't know what is the reason cuz i know that babel is a star player but i'm confident that he is the player that we can depend on but he is always afraid from trying his luck so i think this is our main problem that we depend on two players or three and we have the ability to vary our style of play in the same match.

What the fuck??

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:33 am

Fo Dne wrote:
bigmick wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:When Agger arrived, he was disappointing, made one or two errors, but given time he's become the best defender from abroad that this league has seen since Hyypia. I don't think Skrtel is as good as Agger but that's because I think so highly of our danish centre half, I think given the time Skrtel will be good enough for us.

Agger is or was a good player, and was continuing to develop apace. I must confess though I think he has a long way to go to become the best foreign centre half in the League.

With blokes like Gallas, Toure, Vidic, Carvallho around (not saying BTW that Agger is arguably better than a couple of those) and fellas in the past like Stam and players of similar ilk, the Premiership has had some good centre halves along the way.

Agger is probably one of the best ball-playing centre halves of his generation there's no doubting that, the kid really is a smashing footballer. Developement though will come and will need to in his physical presence, his aerial ability etc. If and until that happens, he's always going to need a really top class no-nonsense defender alongside him to be seen at his very best. While probably not being actually the very top class Carragher filled the role ably and they looked like a good pairing when playing together. Worryingly however this hasn't been one of Jamies best seasons, and while I appreciate peoples opinion that it's "too early" to call Skyrtel, there are one or two worrying signs I think that he has that "standby" mode where he switches off and ball watches during games.

On the positive, he does look to have plenty of pace and can play a bit, and he does look like the "no-nonsense" type which Agger needs. Poor decision making though such as the first goal against Man Utd, or allowing Rooney to run off him while he watched a long punt from Van Der Saar fly seventy yards over his head are a concern. It maybe too early to definitively know one way or the other whether he will develop into a top-class centre back, but IMHO at least he is a fair distance short of being one right at this moment.

Skrtyl has no chance mate.

Simple as, as I said to you a million times, players don't learn to do this that or the other. They either have it in there game of they don't. Its that simple.

Other than that a good post.

I disagree with you here Stu about Skertel.

I remember having a similar discussion with you about Agger I think it was. Just before I go any further, I do like Agger but dont think hes a good as some people on here make him out to be, but he still has time.

And this is where I disagree with you about Skertel you see. Both him and Agger on the ball are sound, so as far as their technical abilities go, generally I'd say there both accomplished enough for this position. Hell there both better than Carragher with the ball at their feet.

But you've often said players dont become something they dont have, because they've neevr had it in the first place to begin with. But CH's are slightly different mate, and young ones at that. I'd say in Skertels case mentally he is still very raw, and does get caught ball watching an awful lot. Thats my biggest critic of him, and thats something he can learn and grow into. Technically he is very good, physically he is very good, he has pace which is a bonus. Its just the mental side where he still looks raw in positioning and anticipation which given time mi\ost young centre halves will develope into. Experiance is essential in this positon and Skertel will have to cut his teeth into this aspect of his game to learn from it. If you could combine Hyypias experiance to what Skertel is all about at the moment, you'd have a pretty fine CH on ya hands.

From coming where hes come from (some Eastern block country) and been thrown in at the deep end (which if he is good enough is fine by me) has coped pretty damn well in the short amount of time hes been here, I just dont think you can always call it that early on centre halfs.

Players like Kuyt, Pennant, Bennayoun, Voronin you can. Its easier, there technically ability and what they can do with the ball upfield is paramount to their respective positions and from watching those five play its easy to say their not upto LFC standard.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:36 am

yes Agger is better than all of them and he's a lot better than many more around europe.

Last season Carragher didn't put a foot wrong, he had Agger along side him all year. This year, we were top of the league when Agger was in the side, since then we're struggling to get fourth. Two years ago we won the FA Cup with Agger in the side, this year we're out to Barnsley without Daniel Agger.

Agger's a much better ball playing centre half than anything else in the league. He had one of the hardest jobs in the world by trying to step into the boots of Hyypia and he's done it with ease. What did Gallas have to do to make himself look good...replace Cygan? Vidic had to replace Mikele Sylvestre? And Carvalho had to replace Mario Melchiot? Hardly difficult to make yourself look good when you're replacing nobody of any quality anyway. Toure had a hard job trying to replace Tony Adams and he's done it to such an extent that he's a leading centre half in the league.

Agger and Toure are the best two out of the lot, with Agger nudging it. They also cost the least. Gallas has cost English clubs eight million, Carvalho was nearer 20 million and Vidic cost around 10 million. Agger cost five and you get a lot more from him.

He's the best centre half from abroad since Hyypia.

Another perfect example of how we overate our own players, its boll0ks. Toure and Gallas are by country miles ahead of Agger as a CH.

"He's the best centre half from abroad since Hyypia. "

:laugh:

by **RedBlood** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:40 am

Fo Dne wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:and like most on here you take every word literally. I'll tell you what, don't read my posts and we'll get along fine because you don't seem to see any positives in any single player.

I see the positives in many players, I also see the weaknesses and glaring weaknesses.

I can see Torres and Gerrard are fantastic players with immense ability, I can see Reina, despite his weakness for crosses and claiminig the ball under pressure is one of the best keepers in the league and in the world.

I can also see that Liverpool FC lack the quality to win the premiership and am not blinded by rediculous favouratism.

You praise every player and only talk about the positives.

The only two players we have that are world class are Gerrard and Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina and Agger are excellent players but aren't in the top bracket and never will be. Beyond that the teams got very limited ability, in other words, put Gerrard and Torres in Everton's side and would they have a better team? I'd say yes all day long.

one minute you say reina is one of the best in the world then you say he isnt world class loool

mascherano not world class?? fuc.king hell mate please

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:03 am

RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:and like most on here you take every word literally. I'll tell you what, don't read my posts and we'll get along fine because you don't seem to see any positives in any single player.

I see the positives in many players, I also see the weaknesses and glaring weaknesses.

I can see Torres and Gerrard are fantastic players with immense ability, I can see Reina, despite his weakness for crosses and claiminig the ball under pressure is one of the best keepers in the league and in the world.

I can also see that Liverpool FC lack the quality to win the premiership and am not blinded by rediculous favouratism.

You praise every player and only talk about the positives.

The only two players we have that are world class are Gerrard and Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina and Agger are excellent players but aren't in the top bracket and never will be. Beyond that the teams got very limited ability, in other words, put Gerrard and Torres in Everton's side and would they have a better team? I'd say yes all day long.

one minute you say reina is one of the best in the world then you say he isnt world class loool

mascherano not world class?? fuc.king hell mate please

Whats "loool"?

"Laugh out out out loud"??

Loool...

:kungfu:

by **RedBlood** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:09 am

Fo Dne wrote:
RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:and like most on here you take every word literally. I'll tell you what, don't read my posts and we'll get along fine because you don't seem to see any positives in any single player.

I see the positives in many players, I also see the weaknesses and glaring weaknesses.

I can see Torres and Gerrard are fantastic players with immense ability, I can see Reina, despite his weakness for crosses and claiminig the ball under pressure is one of the best keepers in the league and in the world.

I can also see that Liverpool FC lack the quality to win the premiership and am not blinded by rediculous favouratism.

You praise every player and only talk about the positives.

The only two players we have that are world class are Gerrard and Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina and Agger are excellent players but aren't in the top bracket and never will be. Beyond that the teams got very limited ability, in other words, put Gerrard and Torres in Everton's side and would they have a better team? I'd say yes all day long.

one minute you say reina is one of the best in the world then you say he isnt world class loool

mascherano not world class?? fuc.king hell mate please

Whats "loool"?

"Laugh out out out loud"??

Loool...

looool is when you see or hear something so ridiculous that lol doesnt cut it

basically you have realised what ti.t you made of yourself in your last post by suggesting reina is one of the best in the world but not world class and that mascherano is not world class, so you resort to pis.s poor attempts to put me down

once again you are an idiot

ps: looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:12 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
bigmick wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:When Agger arrived, he was disappointing, made one or two errors, but given time he's become the best defender from abroad that this league has seen since Hyypia. I don't think Skrtel is as good as Agger but that's because I think so highly of our danish centre half, I think given the time Skrtel will be good enough for us.

Agger is or was a good player, and was continuing to develop apace. I must confess though I think he has a long way to go to become the best foreign centre half in the League.

With blokes like Gallas, Toure, Vidic, Carvallho around (not saying BTW that Agger is arguably better than a couple of those) and fellas in the past like Stam and players of similar ilk, the Premiership has had some good centre halves along the way.

Agger is probably one of the best ball-playing centre halves of his generation there's no doubting that, the kid really is a smashing footballer. Developement though will come and will need to in his physical presence, his aerial ability etc. If and until that happens, he's always going to need a really top class no-nonsense defender alongside him to be seen at his very best. While probably not being actually the very top class Carragher filled the role ably and they looked like a good pairing when playing together. Worryingly however this hasn't been one of Jamies best seasons, and while I appreciate peoples opinion that it's "too early" to call Skyrtel, there are one or two worrying signs I think that he has that "standby" mode where he switches off and ball watches during games.

On the positive, he does look to have plenty of pace and can play a bit, and he does look like the "no-nonsense" type which Agger needs. Poor decision making though such as the first goal against Man Utd, or allowing Rooney to run off him while he watched a long punt from Van Der Saar fly seventy yards over his head are a concern. It maybe too early to definitively know one way or the other whether he will develop into a top-class centre back, but IMHO at least he is a fair distance short of being one right at this moment.

Skrtyl has no chance mate.

Simple as, as I said to you a million times, players don't learn to do this that or the other. They either have it in there game of they don't. Its that simple.

Other than that a good post.

I disagree with you here Stu about Skertel.

I remember having a similar discussion with you about Agger I think it was. Just before I go any further, I do like Agger but dont think hes a good as some people on here make him out to be, but he still has time.

And this is where I disagree with you about Skertel you see. Both him and Agger on the ball are sound, so as far as their technical abilities go, generally I'd say there both accomplished enough for this position. Hell there both better than Carragher with the ball at their feet.

But you've often said players dont become something they dont have, because they've neevr had it in the first place to begin with. But CH's are slightly different mate, and young ones at that. I'd say in Skertels case mentally he is still very raw, and does get caught ball watching an awful lot. Thats my biggest critic of him, and thats something he can learn and grow into. Technically he is very good, physically he is very good, he has pace which is a bonus. Its just the mental side where he still looks raw in positioning and anticipation which given time mi\ost young centre halves will develope into. Experiance is essential in this positon and Skertel will have to cut his teeth into this aspect of his game to learn from it. If you could combine Hyypias experiance to what Skertel is all about at the moment, you'd have a pretty fine CH on ya hands.

From coming where hes come from (some Eastern block country) and been thrown in at the deep end (which if he is good enough is fine by me) has coped pretty damn well in the short amount of time hes been here, I just dont think you can always call it that early on centre halfs.

Players like Kuyt, Pennant, Bennayoun, Voronin you can. Its easier, there technically ability and what they can do with the ball upfield is paramount to their respective positions and from watching those five play its easy to say their not upto LFC standard.

Rubbish. Experience doesn't give players something they never have. It never has and never will. It annoys me the amount "experts" go on about experience, it means very very little.

You either have it, or you don't as a player. Experience makes a good player better, it doesn't make average players good or even great for that matter.

All experience does is helps you to fine tune your skills and get the best out of yourself. Look at Ferdinand and Gerrard, Gerrard is still impatient and rushes things on occassion, Ferdinand STILL lacks concentration even though he's a fantastic centre half.

Players never gain something they don't have. Hyypia came over here as a 24/25 year old, he had it, simple as that. You can just see it, great players produce. Simple as that.

It doesn't matter whether you're a keeper, a centre back, a winger or forward. Football is football and players that aren't good enough won't all of a sudden become good enough no matter how many games they play. It seems to be everyones arguement, give him games, he'll improve, they never do. Does Torres need games? Did Alonso? Did Mascherano? Did Gerrard when he came through? Did Fowler, Owen? Rooney? The answers crystal, they just had it. Even Agger who is massively overated by our own, he's good, really good. You can see it from day one, you can also see he's never the best in the league.

All there is to say on the matter really.

by **RedBlood** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:15 am

All there is to say on the matter really. - Fo Dne Mar. 29 2008,02:12

well thats it then boys we might aswell close the thread :laugh:

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:19 am

RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:and like most on here you take every word literally. I'll tell you what, don't read my posts and we'll get along fine because you don't seem to see any positives in any single player.

I see the positives in many players, I also see the weaknesses and glaring weaknesses.

I can see Torres and Gerrard are fantastic players with immense ability, I can see Reina, despite his weakness for crosses and claiminig the ball under pressure is one of the best keepers in the league and in the world.

I can also see that Liverpool FC lack the quality to win the premiership and am not blinded by rediculous favouratism.

You praise every player and only talk about the positives.

The only two players we have that are world class are Gerrard and Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina and Agger are excellent players but aren't in the top bracket and never will be. Beyond that the teams got very limited ability, in other words, put Gerrard and Torres in Everton's side and would they have a better team? I'd say yes all day long.

one minute you say reina is one of the best in the world then you say he isnt world class loool

mascherano not world class?? fuc.king hell mate please

Whats "loool"?

"Laugh out out out loud"??

Loool...

looool is when you see or hear something so ridiculous that lol doesnt cut it

basically you have realised what ti.t you made of yourself in your last post by suggesting reina is one of the best in the world but not world class and that mascherano is not world class, so you resort to pis.s poor attempts to put me down

once again you are an idiot

ps: looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

When have I once put you down? You're the one who's called me an "Idiot" and a "pleb" in whatever thread I post in. I'm the one talking football while you're the one hurling the abuse kid so don't pull that one.

Whats quite funny about your one line posts is the amount of people who actually bother to reply to you. I can't remember one incident on this forum where anyone (with the exception of myself) has even bothered to acknowledge anything you say. With all due respect, you come across as a bit of a simpleton.

Laugh out out out out out out out out out out out out loud!

Or it is it Looooooooooooooool?

:talktothehand

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:21 am

RedBlood wrote:All there is to say on the matter really. - Fo Dne Mar. 29 2008,02:12

well thats it then boys we might aswell close the thread

Learn how to use the quote button...

Loooooooooooool

du u wnt me 2 tork like dis 4 u?

by **RedBlood** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:53 am

Fo Dne wrote:
RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
RedBlood wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:and like most on here you take every word literally. I'll tell you what, don't read my posts and we'll get along fine because you don't seem to see any positives in any single player.

I see the positives in many players, I also see the weaknesses and glaring weaknesses.

I can see Torres and Gerrard are fantastic players with immense ability, I can see Reina, despite his weakness for crosses and claiminig the ball under pressure is one of the best keepers in the league and in the world.

I can also see that Liverpool FC lack the quality to win the premiership and am not blinded by rediculous favouratism.

You praise every player and only talk about the positives.

The only two players we have that are world class are Gerrard and Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina and Agger are excellent players but aren't in the top bracket and never will be. Beyond that the teams got very limited ability, in other words, put Gerrard and Torres in Everton's side and would they have a better team? I'd say yes all day long.

one minute you say reina is one of the best in the world then you say he isnt world class loool

mascherano not world class?? fuc.king hell mate please

Whats "loool"?

"Laugh out out out loud"??

Loool...

looool is when you see or hear something so ridiculous that lol doesnt cut it

basically you have realised what ti.t you made of yourself in your last post by suggesting reina is one of the best in the world but not world class and that mascherano is not world class, so you resort to pis.s poor attempts to put me down

once again you are an idiot

ps: looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

When have I once put you down? You're the one who's called me an "Idiot" and a "pleb" in whatever thread I post in. I'm the one talking football while you're the one hurling the abuse kid so don't pull that one.

Whats quite funny about your one line posts is the amount of people who actually bother to reply to you. I can't remember one incident on this forum where anyone (with the exception of myself) has even bothered to acknowledge anything you say. With all due respect, you come across as a bit of a simpleton.

Laugh out out out out out out out out out out out out loud!

Or it is it Looooooooooooooool?

oh no i should kill myself now

the only reason people reply to your posts is because your an idiot and need to be told

unlike you i dont need peoples approval on an internet forum thats why if i was every banned i wouldnt come back on here like some internet forum junkie that just cant pack it in

by **RedBlood** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:59 am

Fo Dne wrote:
RedBlood wrote:All there is to say on the matter really. - Fo Dne Mar. 29 2008,02:12

well thats it then boys we might aswell close the thread

Learn how to use the quote button...

Loooooooooooool

du u wnt me 2 tork like dis 4 u?

no mate you can talk how you like and maybe while your at it go out and talk to some girls then maybe you wont be on an internet forum all night desperately wanting to be acknowledged looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

by **LFC2007** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:00 am

Fo Dne wrote:Even Agger who is massively overated by our own, he's good, really good. You can see it from day one, you can also see he's never the best in the league.

Funny that, I seem to recall you rating him as 'average' and in the same category as Kromkamp.

All there is to say on the matter really

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