Liverpool FC Forum

[Yari7]

Is it really neccesary to have 2 holding midfeilders. Would one holding midfeilder not be enough?

[cornetto1]

well its described as two holding midfielders but really its only masch who is the destroyer in there, alonso should be allowed to then get on the ball and spread it about, but we've seen very little of him at his best this season. If we had him on the form he was for us at the start then i think we'd be doing better. I can see alonso going in the summer purely because of lack of first team action and being at a point in his career where he just wants to be playing all the time. Thats where I think in his second year that Lucas can come to the fore and play a lot more regularly, we've see flashes of good stuff from him this year, it just takes him to have this first season to bed in and he'll be flying next year, similar to babel

[maypaxvobiscum]

i think we should rotate the formation  

oi, i asked that on page one second post matey

thief 

oh my god

sorry!!
wanna rotate ideas?

[maypaxvobiscum]

gerrard would be better off on the right hand side instead of kuyt. that would be
-----------reina
finnan-carra-agger-riise
-----xabi---mash
gerrard--benayoun--babel
--------torres

at least benayoun has the creativity and vision to create something unlike kuyt whose a pile of dung IMO. never rated him and never will. offers nothing more than being a barricade in front of crouch. if rafa isnt gonna use players like benayoun then why on earth buy them? every week i see kuyt play and its fecking depressing when i know someone else could do a much better job there.

[cornetto1]

a fair point, benayoun could be very good in there and could unlock a number of defences.

but play gerrard on the right and we're have to listen to media whining about "gerrard better in the middle, not being used right..blah blah blah" gives me a sore head thinking about it

[Judge]

i think we should rotate the formation  

oi, i asked that on page one second post matey

thief 

oh my god

sorry!!
wanna rotate ideas?

NO 


this thread like many others of the calibre should be merged under the category of the magic roundabout

[Bad Bob]

I'm still in "wait and see" mode with this system.  Anything that gets most of our best players on the pitch and fosters some sort of cohesion, as the formation seems to have done, is a good thing that's worth sticking with for the time being.  That said, it probably is papering over a few cracks (all systems will given some of the noted deficiencies in our squad) and may not allow us to match up with our top rivals as effectively.  It should be noted, however, that while we do need to be able to compete with said rivals in head-to-head matches, a proper title challenge really involves dispatching the lesser teams we face over the majority of our schedule.  If going 4-2-3-1 allows us to see off the likes of Boro and Bolton and Reading more effectively then I'm all for keeping it as the preferred system for most matches.

[Judge]

I'm still in "wait and see" mode with this system.  Then ill rotate my thoughts

[Fo Dne]

Great to see you back Stu, even if I only agree with half of your points.

Formation will not work with current players - Spot on, but I would add......... with our style of play as well.

Gerrard shouldn't play "in the hole" - spot on

Pennant good crosser and its the forwards fault - Pennant is just not good enough mate, too happy to just throw balls in the box whether anyone is there or not, rarely picks out a player when the option is there and wastes his final ball time after time.

Skrtle - I am not sure of yet mate (always takes me a while)

Babel - Your probably right

Arbeloa - spot on

Torres - you were spot on about him from day one mate

Carragher - Bit harsh imo, he needs a player who can read the game beside him, and then he's as good as anyone defensively.

As for Gareth Barry, he's a very good footballer but I just don't see him playing fullback or wing back anymore, and he hasn't the pace to play winger. So as we don't need a holding midfielder I don't think he will be on our wanted list come the end of the season mate.

Alonso - I think will go at the end of the season

Mascherano -  with Torres and Gerrard as our best 3 players this season, but we need more guile in the team than we have. We have no-one with real "game intelligence" at the moment.

Our real need is for a creative player with "brains".

Saint, wingers don't pick players out mate. They put crosses into the box, its that simple. Pennant has the ability to pick players out from wide positions, he will cut a ball back or put in a dangerous ball, when you just beat a player (any good winger will tell you) you cross to a space or area.

The strikers should do the rest by going and attacking the ball and making a good cross into a great one. Robbie used to do exactly that from McAteer and Bjornebye's crossing, Shearer uesd to do it from Ripley and Wilcox and Ferdinand used to do it from Sinclair, Gillespie and Ginola.

Its about getting the best out of players, we have no-one who will get the best out of Pennant anymore. Crouch, Kuyt and Voronin have never attacked in there lives and Torres although can only has limited ability in doing so and I wouldn't expect to see him do it regularly against the better sides as great as he is.

Skrtel or however the its spelt is just not upto it.Ball watches, positioning is poor, not good enough in the air and doesn't stamp his authority on the back line what so ever.

Arbeloa would be DECENT (any only decent) backup.

Torres I was unsure over till I seen him against Villa in the first game then knew we had a beast of a player.

Carragher is exactly what I said he from day one. A well drilled club player who knows his job, all the chopping and changing again clearly proves this as he's unable to cope with it. Carraghers fine when everything around him is because of his level of commitment and defensive ability but the second you take out the well drilled and comforts in his game he has a season like this one. He's not been as good this year as in previous years and thats down to the fact he's had chop and change next to him all the time.

Don't even start saying pace. Pace is all in football unless you know how to use it. Barry doesn't need pace, he's a class player and thats all that matters. A few years ago we had a team consisting of Morientes/Crouch, Fowler, Kewell, Alonso, Sissoko, Gerrard, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise and Reina, Gerrard, Sissoko and Kewell are the only players in that team that really had any "pace" and none of them are really what you'd call speed merchants yet that team acheived our highest points total in the premier league and finished 1 point off second, its about keeping the ball and having good players and a balance which is something we haven't got. The most important attributes in football are passing, touch and movement, Barry has all three in abundance. If you've got players who don't give the ball away good things happen, that team had Morientes, Fowler, Gerrard and Kewell going forward, all of which worked openings rather than give it away in a sloppy fasion, thats why we done so well and looked a brilliant side in that period, not to mention we had a better first 11.

Alonso probably will go, he's gone very stale at Liverpool unfortunately.

Our real needs are two full backs, a centre half, a left winger and a striker. It remains to be seen if Lucas can become that Scholes/Fabregas type player in the midfield we need, my heart says he could, my brain says not quite.

[cornetto1]

A point that Bad Bob made there about the lesser teams couldnt be truer. If you look at united, fair enough they have the odd freak result against smaller opposition, but win the majority of them. Which means when they come to the big head-to-head games, it's rarely imperative that they win the game, all they really need to do is stop the other team from gettin points and a draw suits them.

We've got ourselves into a decent position with the recent run of results, but because of previous dropped points (wigan, spurs at home) the more difficult games always become must win for us

[Toffeehater]

Torres and stevie were two of our main man in that formation and when manure countered us by putting 3 defensive mids carrick , anderson and scholes , i knew it would be a hard day out for the lads , torres got isolated and stevie was controlled well , we don't have enough creative players on the pitch and only babel was doing something and kuyt was defending , so out of 2 wide man only 1 could attack and manure marked out that flank and babel did well still , to be fair to kuyt , he was helping with the defending and could not really get a chance to attack , next season we need a more creative player or maybe 2

[Toffeehater]

Great to see you back Stu, even if I only agree with half of your points.

Formation will not work with current players - Spot on, but I would add......... with our style of play as well.

Gerrard shouldn't play "in the hole" - spot on

Pennant good crosser and its the forwards fault - Pennant is just not good enough mate, too happy to just throw balls in the box whether anyone is there or not, rarely picks out a player when the option is there and wastes his final ball time after time.

Skrtle - I am not sure of yet mate (always takes me a while)

Babel - Your probably right

Arbeloa - spot on

Torres - you were spot on about him from day one mate

Carragher - Bit harsh imo, he needs a player who can read the game beside him, and then he's as good as anyone defensively.

As for Gareth Barry, he's a very good footballer but I just don't see him playing fullback or wing back anymore, and he hasn't the pace to play winger. So as we don't need a holding midfielder I don't think he will be on our wanted list come the end of the season mate.

Alonso - I think will go at the end of the season

Mascherano -  with Torres and Gerrard as our best 3 players this season, but we need more guile in the team than we have. We have no-one with real "game intelligence" at the moment.

Our real need is for a creative player with "brains".

Saint, wingers don't pick players out mate. They put crosses into the box, its that simple. Pennant has the ability to pick players out from wide positions, he will cut a ball back or put in a dangerous ball, when you just beat a player (any good winger will tell you) you cross to a space or area.

The strikers should do the rest by going and attacking the ball and making a good cross into a great one. Robbie used to do exactly that from McAteer and Bjornebye's crossing, Shearer uesd to do it from Ripley and Wilcox and Ferdinand used to do it from Sinclair, Gillespie and Ginola.

Its about getting the best out of players, we have no-one who will get the best out of Pennant anymore. Crouch, Kuyt and Voronin have never attacked in there lives and Torres although can only has limited ability in doing so and I wouldn't expect to see him do it regularly against the better sides as great as he is.

Skrtel or however the its spelt is just not upto it.Ball watches, positioning is poor, not good enough in the air and doesn't stamp his authority on the back line what so ever.

Arbeloa would be DECENT (any only decent) backup.

Torres I was unsure over till I seen him against Villa in the first game then knew we had a beast of a player.

Carragher is exactly what I said he from day one. A well drilled club player who knows his job, all the chopping and changing again clearly proves this as he's unable to cope with it. Carraghers fine when everything around him is because of his level of commitment and defensive ability but the second you take out the well drilled and comforts in his game he has a season like this one. He's not been as good this year as in previous years and thats down to the fact he's had chop and change next to him all the time.

Don't even start saying pace. Pace is all in football unless you know how to use it. Barry doesn't need pace, he's a class player and thats all that matters. A few years ago we had a team consisting of Morientes/Crouch, Fowler, Kewell, Alonso, Sissoko, Gerrard, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise and Reina, Gerrard, Sissoko and Kewell are the only players in that team that really had any "pace" and none of them are really what you'd call speed merchants yet that team acheived our highest points total in the premier league and finished 1 point off second, its about keeping the ball and having good players and a balance which is something we haven't got. The most important attributes in football are passing, touch and movement, Barry has all three in abundance. If you've got players who don't give the ball away good things happen, that team had Morientes, Fowler, Gerrard and Kewell going forward, all of which worked openings rather than give it away in a sloppy fasion, thats why we done so well and looked a brilliant side in that period, not to mention we had a better first 11.

Alonso probably will go, he's gone very stale at Liverpool unfortunately.

Our real needs are two full backs, a centre half, a left winger and a striker. It remains to be seen if Lucas can become that Scholes/Fabregas type player in the midfield we need, my heart says he could, my brain says not quite.

Top top post lad , absolutely spot on , feel you are a bit harsh on skrtel seeing as he has done well in adapting had a cracker of a game against chelsea and this was a big game , never really did well but its his first season and he only joined in janurary , time will tell

[god_bless_john_houlding]

amazing how football changes eh. We go on a fantastic run of seven straight wins...don't care what you say, that's fantastic, and we're all pretty much loving this new system. We then lose a game to the team top of the table and their ground and straight away it's the same systems fault. Makes me laugh.

System wasn't at fault. Rotation wasn't at fault. Injuries weren't at fault. Yanks weren't at fault. Form wasn't at fault. Referee wasn't at fault.

Passion, pride, belief and desire was at fault. Our players looked as if they were expecting defeat and were happy to accept defeat.

Now I've always preferred to see two up front but I'm happy with the new system. It was two up front that took us 20 odd points behind and it was the new system that took us just eight points behind. I don't want to see Benitez start chopping and changing again, so I'd rather he stuck with this 4-2-3-1. So yes the system could be imporved and I'd prefer a 4-4-2 system because that's how I was brought up and that's what has won us trophies in the past but at the moment this system has been working fine so don't fix it if it isn't broke kinda thing.

As for the problems in the side, they lie firmly at the manager as far as I'm concerned. Money to burn he's had and he's brought one decent full back in during his time...Arbeloa. For me it's only a left back that is required unless Arbeloa plays over there and we bring a new right back in. I'm happy with Babel and Pennant but still think there's better out there (bentley, young, lennon) and another decent forward (steven fletcher)

[Fo Dne]

amazing how football changes eh. We go on a fantastic run of seven straight wins...don't care what you say, that's fantastic, and we're all pretty much loving this new system. We then lose a game to the team top of the table and their ground and straight away it's the same systems fault. Makes me laugh.

System wasn't at fault. Rotation wasn't at fault. Injuries weren't at fault. Yanks weren't at fault. Form wasn't at fault. Referee wasn't at fault.

Passion, pride, belief and desire was at fault. Our players looked as if they were expecting defeat and were happy to accept defeat.

Now I've always preferred to see two up front but I'm happy with the new system. It was two up front that took us 20 odd points behind and it was the new system that took us just eight points behind. I don't want to see Benitez start chopping and changing again, so I'd rather he stuck with this 4-2-3-1. So yes the system could be imporved and I'd prefer a 4-4-2 system because that's how I was brought up and that's what has won us trophies in the past but at the moment this system has been working fine so don't fix it if it isn't broke kinda thing.

As for the problems in the side, they lie firmly at the manager as far as I'm concerned. Money to burn he's had and he's brought one decent full back in during his time...Arbeloa. For me it's only a left back that is required unless Arbeloa plays over there and we bring a new right back in. I'm happy with Babel and Pennant but still think there's better out there (bentley, young, lennon) and another decent forward (steven fletcher)

Read my posts over the last few years, you'll find I saw exactly the same things. I was NEVER "loving this new system" and I've never ever once been a believer in stiffling your best player playing him in an advanced role when he's not suited to it.

Disagree on Bentley, Young and certainly Lennon who's nowhere near good enough.

Bentley may have the quality but we have a wide player in Gerrard.

Arbeloa's never good enough.

You don't half chat bubbles, you really do. Stick to cricket.

[Judge]

you only joined in march, how can one read your posts over the years?