Liverpool FC Forum

by **murphy0151** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:26 pm

Oh sh it!!!!!! Im watching Everton now. And I thought i was a blue for a second and ive just voted for Hysel. Sorry lads.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:21 pm

murphy0151 wrote:Oh sh it!!!!!! Im watching Everton now. And I thought i was a blue for a second and ive just voted for Hysel. Sorry lads.

Sorry to admit I cheered them home. got me bet up like.

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:32 pm

Whats you problem Leon lad dont like woman posting
Listen it was a spelling mistake no need to make a song and dance about it. oh and by the way just cause you dont like a new thread dont go throwing your rattle out of you pram

by **murphy0151** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:40 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Whats you problem Leon lad dont like woman posting
Listen it was a spelling mistake no need to make a song and dance about it. oh and by the way just cause you dont like a new thread dont go throwing your rattle out of you pram

Yeah Leon ya big baby.

Now ya bets up fella our ya going to give me that 20 quid ya owe me?

I wanted them to go threw aswell mate. Im not bitter, im just a gobshiiiite.

by **roberto green** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:05 am

LittleHobo wrote:why are we soo far away from valenica under rafa it hurts?

we are like the opposite of his valencia team

we are like an opposite to eveything since his main man Paco has left!!

by **Woollyback** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:11 am

i blame it on the boogie

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:11 am

NANNY RED wrote:Whats you problem Leon lad dont like woman posting
Listen it was a spelling mistake no need to make a song and dance about it. oh and by the way just cause you dont like a new thread dont go throwing your rattle out of you pram

Not so much a spelling mistake just poor grammar.

by **whylongball?** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:12 am

No option for players?
No option for Rafa's training method?
I think the team need to go back to basic of passing and movement..And maybe watch a lot of tapes of Arsenal games

by **Rafalution** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:07 am

Why on earth is everyone focusing on rotation being the reason for the disappointing displays ?
The press and media simply say it's down to rotation as it's poor journalism on their behalf. In this country the press simply look for the foreigner who does something different to their ideals then jump on it's back as being the reason for why results are not going the way we want. Next thing you know everyone is citing it as the definitive reason results are not working out as we think they should.

All I can say to those of you who cite rotation as being the reason behind the slump is simply to look at Crouch in his first season when Benitez didn't rotate him much in an effort to help him score his first goal. Was it rotation then which meant Crouchy couldn't hit a barn door from 1 yard for several weeks when he was playing week in week out in the premiership or simply the fact he was playing :censored:

?
People lose sight of the fact we have been rotating heavily since Rafa came here yet I didn't see anyone complaining about the rotation when we won the champions league.

The fans are so fickle and cannot seem to realise that even if Rafa played a settled team week in week out, as soon as someone has a bad game everyone will be jumping up and down saying how we need to change the team as the players are not performing and so and so would do a better job.....

I'm glad I'm not Rafa because with support like this who needs enemies....!

by **The Ace1983** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:30 am

Leon, dude you missed it. Sorry but the real reason, I fear, though right under Rafa's nose, you've missed. I was all in favour of it when I first saw it. It reminded me of the old european porn movies you could see on the german channels on the old Sky tv. But now, it's just the bristles of doom.

It's his beard! It's Rafa's beard! It's destroying us! Though glorious it was, now it paints itself blue in the night! We must bring forth the clippers of Saroth'sar and expunge these feckund whisps from Rafa's chin! They are the devil! Pure evil, I tell you! Only when the Goatee of Doom is destroyed will the light come back!...

by **Wilhelmsson** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:33 am

Rafalution wrote:Why on earth is everyone focusing on rotation being the reason for the disappointing displays ?
The press and media simply say it's down to rotation as it's poor journalism on their behalf. In this country the press simply look for the foreigner who does something different to their ideals then jump on it's back as being the reason for why results are not going the way we want. Next thing you know everyone is citing it as the definitive reason results are not working out as we think they should.

All I can say to those of you who cite rotation as being the reason behind the slump is simply to look at Crouch in his first season when Benitez didn't rotate him much in an effort to help him score his first goal. Was it rotation then which meant Crouchy couldn't hit a barn door from 1 yard for several weeks when he was playing week in week out in the premiership or simply the fact he was playing ?
People lose sight of the fact we have been rotating heavily since Rafa came here yet I didn't see anyone complaining about the rotation when we won the champions league.

The fans are so fickle and cannot seem to realise that even if Rafa played a settled team week in week out, as soon as someone has a bad game everyone will be jumping up and down saying how we need to change the team as the players are not performing and so and so would do a better job.....

I'm glad I'm not Rafa because with support like this who needs enemies....!

I’d like to address a few of your points:

1) It’s inaccurate to naturally make assumptions that those who do not support the notion of rotation take every word a journalist types as if it were text from a gospel.

2) Rotation does work, when it’s not abused, sensible and pragmatic rotation centred on fatigue, injury and suspension works. Even playing a weakened side at home against teams in the lower foot of the table can work.

Making 67 changes in 12 matches does not work IMO and the fans are witness to this. There will a section of supporters that will support Rafa until he is no longer manager and refuse to acknowledge that there is little wrong about making such mass changes on a regular basis and there will be some fans that see such rotation as a harmful hindrance.

3) The Champions League was almost two and a half years ago and whilst it will forever live in my memory, such an achievement does not immune Benitez from criticism and four seasons of using rotation in the manner which Rafa has done tells its own story IMO. The club has never looked capable of winning the league under Rafa and rotation is just one of the many problems and blockages for the club, no matter how small or how large a problem, it’s still proving to be a problem IMO. Rotation under Rafa is being used too frequently and far too often and there needs to be continuity with such change and there isn’t.

4) What’s with this term fickle? Is it even a word? I didn’t hear of such a word until I came to this forum? Is it fickle to want to see the best for team? Is it fickle to have an opinion which differs to the manager? Is it fickle to feel frustrated when your team isn’t performing?

There will be some sections of the fan base that will always criticise Rafa and there are certain sections that dislike Rafa, but please do not confuse those who dare to disagree with Rafa with those who snipe at Rafa at every given opportunity. If you are happy with rotation and feel Rafa is making constant progress then that’s your prerogative and I respect it, but in return you must respect opinions which differ to yours or the manager.

by **tommycockles** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:34 am

i voted 'other' as i just think we just played sh.it! You can blame it on rotation but bar one or two players it was pretty much a usual team- and still a team that should ahve won. Sissoko had a nightmare, as did everyone else - we had no-midfield which meant the strikers couldn't get involved our defence was pinned back so deep they couldn't get up to support or overlap the wingers (did we have wingers). I could explain who i'd rather have had in the team but then that's just be me rotating to squad. Yes Rotation may have had an influence but frankly we played cr.ap and didn't deserve a point. Hopefully this'll give us and Rafa a kick up the backside. Don't forget we were nearly out against Olympiakos but looked what happened- there's still plenty of games!

by **bigmick** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:35 am

Rafalution wrote:Why on earth is everyone focusing on rotation being the reason for the disappointing displays ?
The press and media simply say it's down to rotation as it's poor journalism on their behalf. In this country the press simply look for the foreigner who does something different to their ideals then jump on it's back as being the reason for why results are not going the way we want. Next thing you know everyone is citing it as the definitive reason results are not working out as we think they should.

All I can say to those of you who cite rotation as being the reason behind the slump is simply to look at Crouch in his first season when Benitez didn't rotate him much in an effort to help him score his first goal. Was it rotation then which meant Crouchy couldn't hit a barn door from 1 yard for several weeks when he was playing week in week out in the premiership or simply the fact he was playing ?
People lose sight of the fact we have been rotating heavily since Rafa came here yet I didn't see anyone complaining about the rotation when we won the champions league.

The fans are so fickle and cannot seem to realise that even if Rafa played a settled team week in week out, as soon as someone has a bad game everyone will be jumping up and down saying how we need to change the team as the players are not performing and so and so would do a better job.....

I'm glad I'm not Rafa because with support like this who needs enemies....!

Hmmm, you can't have it both ways matey. If rotation is feck all to do with us playing sh!te at the moment, its hard to take seriously an argument which suggests we won the Champions League because of it. It either effects the perfomance of the team or it doesn't, and neither side can just pick outn the good bits to suit.

FWIW I think rotation played some part in our triumph to be fair. Like last season we barely played a serious first team towards the end of the campaign so it's reasonable to assume the players were a bit fresher on the way to the final. In both games however we were comfortably outstayed (to use a bit of horseracing parlance) by the Italians so I wouldn't get too carried away with the leaping around like Gazelles's theory.

This thing about it being some sort of conspiricy theory bandied about by the tabloids and Andy Gray which has been picked up by the fans baffles me a bit as well. If the figures are correct, we've made 67 alterations to the team in 12 games. It's an absolutely staggering statistic, and given that the goalkeeper is rarely rotated means that we are changing somewhere between five and six outfield players per game on average. That's over half the team, every game.

Now I know the pro-rotationists will deny until they are blue in the face that it has any effect whatsoever on fluency, understanding, anticipation etc ("they are professionals, they should be able to trap a ball and pass it to somebody in a red shirt" etc etc) but if that is the way to go, why aren't Man Utd and Arsenal and Chelsea doing it? "But they rotate as well". Yes they do, they rest players within the framework of a core of a team.

Maybe Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho before he fecked off read the tabloids, listened to Andy Gray and decided to jump on the bandwagon as well by not rotating as much as Rafa. Maybe every pundit on the news, in the media is also jumping on the bandwagon. Maybe 67 changes in 12 games (and consider for a moment we kept the same line-up in the first two) is about right. Maybe, everyboy is wrong except for the manager and a few die hards who still cling to the hope that you can change half the team every game and still play like a football team.

There is also another possibility though. Maybe, just maybe, we are overdoing it (rotation), just by a tinsy bit. Maybe, you never know.

by **Leonmc0708** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:46 am

NANNY RED wrote:Whats you problem Leon lad dont like woman posting
Listen it was a spelling mistake no need to make a song and dance about it. oh and by the way just cause you dont like a new thread dont go throwing your rattle out of you pram

Didnt know you where female.

Didnt really make a song and dance otherwise I would have posted:

Nanny Red; her ink she did smidge
She meant the grudge, but posted Judge
She talks some good stuff, this is true
But mostly she just posts loads of poo

Back two three four side two three four back two three fourfinally, on your point about closing the thread, you posted this:

I posted this article in the Liverpool v Marseille thread but i thought it should have a thread of its own.

Kinda self explanatory No ?

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:47 am

bigmick wrote:
Rafalution wrote:Why on earth is everyone focusing on rotation being the reason for the disappointing displays ?
The press and media simply say it's down to rotation as it's poor journalism on their behalf. In this country the press simply look for the foreigner who does something different to their ideals then jump on it's back as being the reason for why results are not going the way we want. Next thing you know everyone is citing it as the definitive reason results are not working out as we think they should.

All I can say to those of you who cite rotation as being the reason behind the slump is simply to look at Crouch in his first season when Benitez didn't rotate him much in an effort to help him score his first goal. Was it rotation then which meant Crouchy couldn't hit a barn door from 1 yard for several weeks when he was playing week in week out in the premiership or simply the fact he was playing ?
People lose sight of the fact we have been rotating heavily since Rafa came here yet I didn't see anyone complaining about the rotation when we won the champions league.

The fans are so fickle and cannot seem to realise that even if Rafa played a settled team week in week out, as soon as someone has a bad game everyone will be jumping up and down saying how we need to change the team as the players are not performing and so and so would do a better job.....

I'm glad I'm not Rafa because with support like this who needs enemies....!

Hmmm, you can't have it both ways matey. If rotation is feck all to do with us playing sh!te at the moment, its hard to take seriously an argument which suggests we won the Champions League because of it. It either effects the perfomance of the team or it doesn't, and neither side can just pick outn the good bits to suit.

FWIW I think rotation played some part in our triumph to be fair. Like last season we barely played a serious first team towards the end of the campaign so it's reasonable to assume the players were a bit fresher on the way to the final. In both games however we were comfortably outstayed (to use a bit of horseracing parlance) by the Italians so I wouldn't get too carried away with the leaping around like Gazelles's theory.

This thing about it being some sort of conspiricy theory bandied about by the tabloids and Andy Gray which has been picked up by the fans baffles me a bit as well. If the figures are correct, we've made 67 alterations to the team in 12 games. It's an absolutely staggering statistic, and given that the goalkeeper is rarely rotated means that we are changing somewhere between five and six outfield players per game on average. That's over half the team, every game.

Now I know the pro-rotationists will deny until they are blue in the face that it has any effect whatsoever on fluency, understanding, anticipation etc ("they are professionals, they should be able to trap a ball and pass it to somebody in a red shirt" etc etc) but if that is the way to go, why aren't Man Utd and Arsenal and Chelsea doing it? "But they rotate as well". Yes they do, they rest players within the framework of a core of a team.

Maybe Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho before he fecked off read the tabloids, listened to Andy Gray and decided to jump on the bandwagon as well by not rotating as much as Rafa. Maybe every pundit on the news, in the media is also jumping on the bandwagon. Maybe 67 changes in 12 games (and consider for a moment we kept the same line-up in the first two) is about right. Maybe, everyboy is wrong except for the manager and a few die hards who still cling to the hope that you can change half the team every game and still play like a football team.

There is also another possibility though. Maybe, just maybe, we are overdoing it (rotation), just by a tinsy bit. Maybe, you never know.

Well Micky I dont think you need anyone else fighting for 'our' corner, you're doing a great job on your own fella. Good post.

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