Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Grudge** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:32 pm

WHY exactly??

I dunno mate..and im being as honest as i can be in saying that.

by **Red @ Heart** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:41 pm

ROTATION ROTATION ROTATION
ROTATION ROTATION ROTATION
ROTATION ROTATION ROTATION

by **red187** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:45 pm

I visit this forum at least once a day but find myself posting very rarely,Ive found it hard not to post on this subject. This rotation debate is allowing our players who are underperforming to hide behind an excuse. How can rotating players once or twice a week be the reason for Crouch or Gerard to continuously play poorly. These players train with each other day in day out, have practice matches on regular basis. This is where players should be developing an understanding with each other, not in the pressurized atmosphere that is a premiership or champions league match. We are Liverpool supporters, widely regarded as some of the most well informed and fair-minded in world of football. Why are we allowing our opinions to be molded by the Anti-Rafa media. Can anyone say that if our players were at the top of their game we would have lost last night, I doubt it. Our captain fantastic is playing well below the high standards that he sets for himself, so hopefully Rafa can mange one more piece of rotation and 'rest' our captain for the benefit of the team and the player himself.

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:50 pm

redtrader74 wrote:Why? well has anybody here had a bad day at work, or a bad week or month? I'm sure that everyone has. Why can't that just be the reason, we've played poorly and then lost confidence, and therefore play a little worse. All teams have a bad patch during the course of a season, its how they recover, and how quickly that is important. Its down to Rafa, and the senior players to sort it out.

Sure that's happenned to all of us redtrader...... But the ENTIRE team bar one? At the SAME time for the last few games in a row?

I think that's stretching the realms of coincidence just a wee bit, mate....

by **red187** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:11 pm

Still havent got the hand of this

by **red187** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:12 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:I believe sensible rotation is the right way to go, but EVERY game we should be playing

Reina
Carragher
Agger
Gerrard
Torres

and I would think that players such as

Pennant
Finnan
Risse should be playing MOST games

At home we should not be concerned with what the oppositions strengths are, we should make them worry about what are strenghths are..

Am I losing faith in Rafa.. not yet, am I concerned.. Yes I am!

This is a perfect example of the media influencing our thoughts, apart from injuries Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Agger & Gerard have all started the majority of our games. Torres is a great player but he is still adapting to English football, I for one would like to see him bedded in gently, we need him to come to terms with English football, not to be forced into making quick adjustments in his game that will inpact the player he could be in seasons to come. Plus he is still 23 no matter the amount of pressure that was on his shoulders when he was at athletico, we as LFC should not expect him to cope with the same just yet

by **redtrader74** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:45 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Why? well has anybody here had a bad day at work, or a bad week or month? I'm sure that everyone has. Why can't that just be the reason, we've played poorly and then lost confidence, and therefore play a little worse. All teams have a bad patch during the course of a season, its how they recover, and how quickly that is important. Its down to Rafa, and the senior players to sort it out.

Sure that's happenned to all of us redtrader...... But the ENTIRE team bar one? At the SAME time for the last few games in a row?

I think that's stretching the realms of coincidence just a wee bit, mate....

Thats not quite true, the entire team has not played badly for a few weeks, yesterday yes, but previously i would say individually in each game the performances ranged from poor, below par, average, good.

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:53 pm

LittleHobo wrote:
Sabre wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:why are we soo far away from valenica under rafa it hurts?

we are like the opposite of his valencia team

Yes, we're far from Valencia.

They reached the CL final once, not twice, and they lost it.

Their coach left Valencia and joined Liverpool, a common thing to see when a coach does his work well, he gets promoted to a bigger club.

I remember Valencia losing under Rafa aswell. They were not invincible, and they won the league by one point IIRC, I'm sure we'll win it by 4!

Honestly, they were not above in their game. Of course yes yesterday, we were poor, but not overall.

the way they played though i mean

amazing ball retention

i think we lack that aimar type player that rafa had

I'm not sure how many games you've watched us play under Rafa, but our ball retention has mostly been top class apart from our last few games. I'd say we're up there with the best of them when it comes to keep ball when we're on our game. I think most people are now just baffled as to what it is that's causing us to play so poorly. I know I am. But as the poll suggests, most agree it's Rafa's rotation policy. I'm included.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:30 pm

red187 wrote:I visit this forum at least once a day but find myself posting very rarely,Ive found it hard not to post on this subject. This rotation debate is allowing our players who are underperforming to hide behind an excuse. How can rotating players once or twice a week be the reason for Crouch or Gerard to continuously play poorly. These players train with each other day in day out, have practice matches on regular basis. This is where players should be developing an understanding with each other, not in the pressurized atmosphere that is a premiership or champions league match. We are Liverpool supporters, widely regarded as some of the most well informed and fair-minded in world of football. Why are we allowing our opinions to be molded by the Anti-Rafa media. Can anyone say that if our players were at the top of their game we would have lost last night, I doubt it. Our captain fantastic is playing well below the high standards that he sets for himself, so hopefully Rafa can mange one more piece of rotation and 'rest' our captain for the benefit of the team and the player himself.

Absolute sense.

At last. :nod

by **woof woof !** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:37 pm

Absolute sense ?

So we're looking at a central pairing of Sissoko and Mascherano for the Spurs game ?

After his performance against Marseille I'd be amazed if we saw Sissoko in the starting lineup and Gerrard on the bench.

That wouldn't be Absolute sense , it would be total madness.

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:07 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
The Grudge wrote:Last nights performance was purely down to the players on the pitch!
Raffa can only lead them to the white line and after that its up to them to perform..its a question of whether they want it more than opponents,last night they looked as if they all wanted to be somewhere else.We looked like a team with problems,im beginning to wonder if all is ok in the dressing room at times and if the players are actually commited to Raffas ideas and way of thginking.

Marsielle wanted it more from the off and deserved all 3 points..we deserved what we got,nothing!
I dont know how any of our ten outfield players could walk in to training today with their heads up,they should be ashamed of that effort.

I could'nt believe what i was watching last night,The french were first to every ball every time our players fought for nothing,it was hard to watch.Im not blaming just him but Sissoko in particular was sh.ite,he done nothong positive all night!

Overall it may not be the end of the world because we still have 4 more group matches and if we win all 13 points should be enough..but if we play like last night we dont deserve it.

In answer to the poll:D
I blame the players because they did not try enough,Benitez has a hard motivating job to do though as he is failing to get them up for it!

In one.

The fault lies at the feet of the players who have simply not performed.

I deliberately left the players off the list and added other hoping someone would point it out.

You have hit the nail on the head with you comments Judge Our players never even crossed the white line last night and alot of them have been doing it for a few weeks

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:59 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
The Grudge wrote:Last nights performance was purely down to the players on the pitch!
Raffa can only lead them to the white line and after that its up to them to perform..its a question of whether they want it more than opponents,last night they looked as if they all wanted to be somewhere else.We looked like a team with problems,im beginning to wonder if all is ok in the dressing room at times and if the players are actually commited to Raffas ideas and way of thginking.

Marsielle wanted it more from the off and deserved all 3 points..we deserved what we got,nothing!
I dont know how any of our ten outfield players could walk in to training today with their heads up,they should be ashamed of that effort.

I could'nt believe what i was watching last night,The french were first to every ball every time our players fought for nothing,it was hard to watch.Im not blaming just him but Sissoko in particular was sh.ite,he done nothong positive all night!

Overall it may not be the end of the world because we still have 4 more group matches and if we win all 13 points should be enough..but if we play like last night we dont deserve it.

In answer to the poll:D
I blame the players because they did not try enough,Benitez has a hard motivating job to do though as he is failing to get them up for it!

In one.

The fault lies at the feet of the players who have simply not performed.

I deliberately left the players off the list and added other hoping someone would point it out.

You have hit the nail on the head with you comments Judge Our players never even crossed the white line last night and alot of them have been doing it for a few weeks

Leonmc0708 quoted The Grudge.

You said Judge was right ?

WTF ?

by **dawson99** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:05 pm

i thought she was saying we should judge the players...

by **Reinas No.1 Fan** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:05 pm

Not a fan of complete rotation, sure you can rest some players for some matches, but as far as I am concerned playing crouch ahead of Voronin or Kuyt is a crime, he is just completely useless.

I really wish we get rid of him.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:32 pm

LittleHobo wrote:why are we soo far away from valenica under rafa it hurts?

we are like the opposite of his valencia team

Valencia played a continental style of football, which is suited to Spanish, French, Italian leagues, where there is more time on the ball for individual creativity and aerobatics. In the Premiership it’s much scrappier, faster tempos and more physical. It's near enough impossible to implement the same style of play in two deeply contrasting leagues.

The problem for me is a lack of momentum, which ties in with rotation, I don’t see rotation as an overall problem, but Rafa abuses it more often than not. For example, Pennant is playing very well, Rafa will then leave him out for a game and then surprise, surprise his momentum shifts some what.

It’s not only rotation, the team do not seem be playing coherently and effectively as a month ago. I’m not sure what the problems are, I’ve read some people’s conspiracy theories that the players are performing poorly to force Rafa’s hand, but such comments seem rather fabricated to say the very least.

My conclusion is that the players need to perform better and the manager needs to admit when he is wrong and not be afraid to change things. Rafa needs to realise he’ll get a lot more respect for showing pragmatism than the dogmatic ideals he constantly employs, regardless if they are consistently successful or not.

I’m a fan of Rafa, but even some doubt has started seeping into my mind regarding the team ever being rich in success under his tenure.

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