Leonmc0708 wrote:Jesus christ, how has this turned into a political debate of the boringest proportions ?
Its not anti establishment, just pro scouse.
We cant stand side by side next to people who have called us theives, accused us of eating rats for treats and tediously told us of our perceived unemployment problems for years and unite. Not on your nelly.
Its not a political thing though, its football.
One City, One Team; Liverpool.
And this rubbish about OOT's is even as much of a myth as the unemployment issue.
Liverpool is a melting pot of so many different cultures and backgrounds, welcomed when the city was the biggest port of the British Empire, and still welcomed to this day. As scousers we are made up of Scouse, Irish, Scottish, American and African blood, merchants and sailors and everything in between. At times the people who have the biggest problem with coming from outside the city seems to be those from outside the city limits.
Read internet forums across the web and its reaching paranoia levels. RTK, an excellent incentive born out of frustration at the lack of atmosphere and class of some of our newer and younger fans hasnt helped, but its not anti OOT, its exactly the opposite. We welcome you to our city and invite you to join us worshipping at our cathederal, but we want you to learn the ways of the football club, and indeed the Kop. Get your education from the Kop, in the exact same way that all other Liverpool fans before you did, wether they where from Liverpool, London, Ireland or beyond.
On the England team, a media controlled team, comprised of players who irritate and anger us in equal measure week in week out which insists on over using and under employing our players in equal measure and that more often than not returns to us players with horrendous injuries from meaningless friendlies is not what interests us. Not now and not ever.
Its not political.
Its not geographical.
Its about the values and traditions of the greatest team in the land, and a city scousers beleive to be the greatest in the land also.
Fair post Leon. Jesus, this got bigger than I thought when i posted it on Friday afternoon (i don't have a computer at home, so i couldn't log on over the weekend. Just read it now.)
My original post was not about the choice between supporting Liverpool FC over England, and who you care more about. I've been a red since 1976, and I remember crying my eyes out when the Mancs beat us in the 1977 FA Cup Final – i've still never cried over England.
For me, I'd hate to have seen Beckham lift the World Cup last summer, I'd hate to see John terry lift it, but in the long-term I'd still rather see that England won the world cup in 2006 or whenever, in the hope that the game – at a national and club level – can return to some kind of sanity and that we won't be looking at one World Cup in 50 years of trying. Support the country, not the current overpaid, overrated celebs wearing the shirt.
My point, as OOT, was that the 'we're scouse, not English' thing is not a football stance, but an anti-English nation thing. It disappoints me (why not be both?) mainly cos it's two fingers up to the fans who aren't Scousers. Like I said earlier, it's a birthright - 'we' haven't got it, 'you' have. But waving it seems like someone trying to block your entry to the club, a club that means as much to me in my heart Leon as it does to you.
I don't wanna get emotional about it, but I was at Hillsborough and what I saw there changed my life. I'm a different person because of it. A lot of the fans who died there, or who were injured or psychologically damaged, were not Scousers. So no one can tell me I don't care about Liverpool as much as some 16-year-old from Fazakerley just cos i never sat on my grandad's knee and heard the stories of old. It's about 30 years of my life, jubilation, disappointment and nearly dying at 19 - no one's gonna take that away from me.
At the moment, I just feel there's a growing element of our support who are blaming all non-Scousers who've supported the club for decades for the jester hat glory hunters who arrived after Istanbul. I just don't wanna set that element grow.
As for the Thatcher argument - damn right, but it wasn't just Liverpool. That woman did more damage to the country than the Luftwaffe ever managed to - whole swathes of England outside of London (and parts of London would make Liverpool look like Surrey these days, thanks to her).
Still, good debate over these pages - glad to see that people have not been afraid to argue about it from both sides without resorting to aggro or insults.
Maybe that's because we're all Liverpool fans…
