Liverpool FC Forum

[Ade]

Gotta say, as an OOT, but an OOT since the mid-Seventies, this 'We're not English, we're Scouse' thing is obviously something I can't understand - I'm not a scouser, how could I?

But while I'm a big fan of scousers (the wit and warmth of being on the terraces with them/you lot in the 80s will live with me forever) a lot of the good fans I met weren't local lads, and it does drive a wedge through our support, in and outside the ground. Some of the hardliners who've been accused of hijacking the Reclaim the Kop movement would obviously be happy with this sentiment, and a whole load of fans – both scouse and OOT – would probably not go along with it.

My real point is, it's just a bit sad, a bit sad in a self-satisfied minority way. A bit sad in the same way as the 'Geordie nation' bolox whipped up by Sir John Hall in the mid-1990s, and taken on by every sobbing member of the Toon Army who sensed a TV camera panning their way in those momentous 4-3s, or when they threw away the title to Utd.

God hope we don't ever become as sad as that lot.

But the best word on it comes from this post on 365:


'And finally, please, for the love of God, give the whole "we're not English, we're Scouse" attitude a rest. It's meaningless. Scousers are not some kind of master race you know, you're English. If you don't want to be, then stop playing in the Premiership, which I think we can all agree is an English competition. Stop going on about being the most successful club in England. Stop paying taxes to the English government and stop claiming benefits. Otherwise, accept you're English, and just stop being so f**king tedious and precious'

Right, I'm just off to be fitted for a nice tin hat…

[Roger Red Hat]

time to take cover...

[Forever_Red]

I'm looking forward to reading some replies about this!

[LFC2007]

What's your point?

[hello_red]

Mafority of people i know arent arsed about the scouse not english thing. Just a bunch of hard liners. The idea of being seperate is an idealistic and impossible dream.

[kop11]

were not english we are SCOUSE!!!!!!

thats all i will say

[Ade]

What's your point?

My point is it doesn't encourage other fans to view us in a good light, and you can't say that's not an issue that we don't give a f*** about.

It creates the impression of a minority with a superiority complex - one not earnt, but a birthright. For me, it's all too reminiscent of the Toon Army, who are still a joke among a lot of fans in England, partly cos of the mass hysterics i mentioned earlier, but partly cos of their self-proclaimed 'best fans in the country' award. They're a joke.

I just feel this element of our support is heading that way, which would be a shame, cos our club and our fans get a lot of respect round the country and this does nothing to boost that.

By all means be proud of being scouse, but leave the separatist bolox to the Mancs and the Geordies

[Ace Ventura]

Stop paying taxes to the English government and stop claiming benefits.

I'm all up for giving up the right to say i am english if i can avoid paying taxes 

[dollface]

What's a scouse? Is it an English thing?

[Ade]

What's a scouse? Is it an English thing?

ah-hah!

[Lando_Griffin]

It's about personal preference Ade. You can't take away a person's right to distance themselves from the sh*tholes who bang their f*cking drums and blow their f*cking horns at every God-forsaken England international.

Personally, I f*cking hate the England set-up, and almost every c*nt who features in the squad. I'd happily p*ss all over 90% of the retards.

So I can understand why Scousers want to be known as just that.

[Lando_Griffin]

What's a scouse? Is it an English thing?

No, actually it derives from a German Sailor's dish, "Labskaus" which the city adopted on account of the thriving maritime aspect.

[adamnbarrett]

Sabre will like this 





We are not english, we are scouse.

Do you know why?

because we are not like those cockneys with all this 'england till i die' rubbish. We are different.

It's only scousers who would put club before country, instead of the other shite like "I'd do anything to play for my country."

We're Not English, We Are Scouse
Daniel Nicolson

Every other summer a strange phenomenon grips the nation. Fully grown men don face paint and wear bowler hats promoting down market tabloids. Women of all ages get overly excited and emotive about something that the vast majority of them detest and avoid at all other times. Young children beg their parents to decorate the house and car in an assortment of differently sized flags, patriotically proclaiming their new found, apparent, interest in all things national.

Despite what the media may peddle there isn't quite a blanket cover of nationwide partisanship. For in the city of Liverpool there is a resistance. Now whilst it would be way off the mark to argue that the whole city combats the urge to succumb to traipsing around pubs, City Centres and supermarkets draped in a St Georges cross - a significant amount of us do. And a great amount of these Scouse insurgents are Liverpool fans.

It must seem bizarre to an outsider. A little strange why people bearing the passport of a country, and officially the queens subjects feel so unpatriotic. There's a multitude of reasons why. None of which perhaps single handily advocates such an open display of apathy but collectively they act as a massive deterrent to support the football team representing England.

As custodians of the country's most successful team ever you may ask why would we ever harbour any desire to get behind another team? As Liverpudlians we've seen it all. Literally. Year on year our football urges are more than satisfied by our seasonal exploits. Recent runs that have culminated in the most dramatic matches ever; the Michael Owen and West Ham FA Cup finals, the UEFA Cup and of course the unforgettable evening in Istanbul. Our own on the pitch efforts have more than eclipsed anything the national team has achieved for generations.

The English team has more traditionally been the stronghold of fans representing lower division teams. Teams in a less fortunate position than us. An excuse for fans who rarely get to experience the joy of an extended run in knockout competitions, or indeed get the chance to witness their team play in another country. Having been almost permanent residents in European competitions for the past 40 years a viable reason for jaunt to the continent is never far away. Just one of the reasons why Liverpool have never really had an active following within the England ranks. Touts and grafters aside of course!

For most of us the urge for a dose of summer football is still there. However many people must look on in disgust at the suggestion that someone can enjoy a football tournament without actively seeking a team to win. And of course the natural draw for the majority of the public here and abroad is to the national team of their country. Some people like to take a closer look at the make up of a team; the players apparently representing the fans. At best we're lucky to have three or four Liverpool players vying for a place in the national squad in the months building up to the start of an international tournament. And I doubt anyone would like to deny any of our players any glory in their career. After all they're only doing their jobs. But think of their new team mates. The Rio Ferdinand's, John Terry's and Frank Lampard's of the world. The type of players that we loathe. Should we cheer them on? Should we sing their names? I'm going to spare mentioning self professed Scouse hater Gary Neville. But how any Kopite can get behind the first three players alone is beyond me. And I most definitely don't want them representing me.

Now how about the city of Liverpool. The city has always been different to the rest of the country. Unique. It's enviable geographical position ensured this. As gateway to Ireland and the Americas Liverpool gained status as the British Empire's top port. With it's back firmly turned on England, Liverpool is often interpreted as a insular enclave. And to a certain extent with regards to the rest of the nation that is true. But not to the world. The city opened it's arms to the globe. It didn't need the assistance of the rest of the country to develop into a jewel in the crown of the British Empire. The result? A cosmopolitan melting pot of people and cultures was established and blossomed over hundreds of years - still growing to this day. A city significantly different to any other urban centre in this land. A city to be proud of.

Perhaps it's jealously, or maybe the result of a lifetimes plethora of misinformation, but our city still endures unfair and outdated stereotypes perpetrated and prolonged by a small minority of the media and public. This is evident in football grounds up and down the country on a weekly basis. Whether it's a few hundred Portsmouth fans visiting Anfield for a winter mid-week match or (as it seems) each match at Old Trafford it seems that much of the nation takes great pride in ridiculing Scousers. Given this why should we join them hand in hand getting behind the national team? We maybe known as a city of wit but why should our humour extend to laughing at ourselves?

The tiresome, tedious jibes about stealing and unemployment that terrace crowds rejoice in when playing Liverpool are not forgotten by many a Scouser when we're expected to join sides with the undertakers of such drivel. Of course the ironic justice to it all is that many of these fans singing what they see as oh so witty chants come from places with far worse problems than Liverpool. Brummies chanting about unemployment when their own city is in state of economic and industrial decline. Mancunians rejoicing in nursery-rhyme-like chants about criminality when their city boasts the rather questionable tag of "UK Capital of Crime".

Of course this is going slightly off the topic, but I'm just reiterating the point that for many Scousers the disdain shown by much of the country throughout the year is not forgotten when the general public expects us to join their bi-annual show of strength. An ill-feeling also still exists to this day regarding the treatment the city suffered under the Thatcher government. I'll leave an in depth explanation to someone more qualified to speak on the subject but animosity and resentment still exists in a lot of Scouse quarters as a result of the the Tory regime that brought hardship to 1980's Merseyside.

For many the circus that associates itself with the national team is more than enough to undertake a self-imposed press ban. Each time an international tournament comes around a laughable hysteria is created and the gullible general public fall for it. Perhaps for a few Liverpool fans, always considered that little bit more knowledgeable than the rest, see themselves as above the media's 'build them up to knock 'em down' tactics.

I'm not going to pretend that collectively us LFC fans are angels. We're not. Far from it. However the behaviour that followers of England often demonstrate both home and abroad is quite frankly nothing short of embarrassing. The racism, bullying and general small time attitude seen over the years, and as recently as the last World Cup would not be tolerated at Liverpool Football Club - and the thought of being associated with this attitude both at home and by our compatriots on the continent is repulsive to lot of us.

So there you go. That wasn't a lecture. Nor was it a set of rules. It was simply a little insight that will hopefully give a few people some understanding of why some Liverpool fans find it difficult to get behind the national team. Remember, for many people like me it's not that we want England to get beat. We just don't want them to win!


Daniel Nicolson

question answered?

Another thing.....

Gotta say, as an OOT, but an OOT since the mid-Seventies, this 'We're not English, we're Scouse' thing is obviously something I can't understand - I'm not a scouser, how could I?

exactly. You are an OOT so you wouldn't understand. But try understanding it instead of telling us it's wrong.

[tubby]

What's a scouse? Is it an English thing?

No, actually it derives from a German Sailor's dish, "Labskaus" which the city adopted on account of the thriving maritime aspect.

You learn something new every day 

Thanks mate I never knew that.

[scouser 'til I die]

the simple thing is everyone stereotypes liverpool, saying that we all rob our grandmothers and all this . The biggest example is the Sun's scandalous stories about the Hillsbrough disaster. It is pretty tiring and annoying and at times its as though we are a separate nation to england because it feels that they don't want "our kind" around here. The press are to blame as well. We seem to be highlighted as one of the worst involving crime etc. even though it is worse in Manchester and even other places. I for one am sick and tired (i no not all people of england are like this) of all this harsh treatment, just because we have a different accent, we have different clothing sense or we don't live in a perfect world but its like that anywhere else, but we seem to be the ones being blamed for it and get skitted for it. So I for one would not like to be near a cockney or a mancunian who thinks that are city is a piece of , because it is the best city ever in my opinion.

If you lived in this city you would understand. You don't, so don't comment on it thank you