Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:06 am

Its the others that we worry about, they think its cool to go to Anfield with an England face paint on, or a mad jester hat, or a gorrilla suit, or mad wigs ten times bigger than the Harry Enfield one.

Now cmon why?

Your going to watch your team why dress like a f[B]u[/]ckin clown?
Im made up our Adams carrying on my traditions cause I say the same.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:08 am

adamnbarrett wrote:fact is mate.

All england has done is poke jibes at Liverpool, mocking us and our city. They don't really want to be associated with us "theiving scouse bastards who get all the money we spend on council tax from the dole"

That's how people see Liverpool and it hurts because Liverpool is not the capital of crime. It is the capital of culture. Maybe we are the capital of culture because we are not like the rest of the country? The fact we are different?

Therein lies the mystery behind 'we are not english we are scouse'. We are different, we are not a bunch of soccer am watching idiots who chant eas-eh all game.

We innovate. Others just imitate.

Everyone in all walks of life is mocked at some point; stereotypes will always exist in society. As I have said in another thread, I rarely go to Anfield as the several times I have been to the stadium, I have been rudely spoken to by a local Liverpool fan or in some cases more than one fan. It doesn’t mean to say I am going to switch my support to West Ham United.

You are stereotyping, you are of the belief that everyone outside of Liverpool dislikes the city and uses such old aged stereotypes to describe you which is simply untrue. In fact the only insults I have heard about Liverpool have come in a few meaningless stand up comedy shows and within the football circles.

As I have said Liverpool is a nice place, I have enjoyed taking in the culture of Liverpool and I have enjoyed the matches I have attended in the past, however I’m pretty sure Scousers use stereotypes against people from outside of Liverpool.

I’ve heard a few Scousers in my time mocking Londoners, calling them chavs, mocking their accents, mocking the city and the characteristics of Londoners, so it’s not all one sided. Ignorance exists in everybody to certain degrees and every community is ignorant.

When Scousers organise methods such as RTK this makes Liverpool an unappealing place for certain people, it gives off a hostile feeling, that anyone outside of Liverpool is not entitled to sit on the Kop terrace. It could be argued that Scousers are trying to victimise those who do not live within Liverpool, which is ironic given the circumstances.

Liverpool is the capital of culture, because it was founded on culture. Most of the stunningly old architecture in Liverpool has been made by the hands, sweat and blood of African-Caribbean slaves. At one point, Liverpool controlled over 80% of England’s slavery and around 38% of European slavery. The city in which you inhabit was built on immigration and cultural differences. Therefore it’s very fitting that Liverpool is given such an accolade, in contrast to say London.

Well if you are going to go through life with a chip on shoulder and the belief you are ‘Scouse, not English’ then expect to be the butt of certain people’s jokes. How can Liverpool be accepted in England when it does it utmost to prevent it being accepted? Liverpudlians cannot denounce themselves from England and then complain when England turn around and stick its middle finger up at Liverpudlians.

As for your point about the innovation, this is true, Liverpool is home of artistic innovation, such movements as the Mersey beat movement highlight this for all to see.

by **adamnbarrett** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:09 am

dawson99 wrote:someimtes it sounds like you are better fans than us. not bigger fans, but better fans.

All i ever get is abuse "why not support local team" blah blah blah.

id love to be surrounded by loads of liverpool fans but it aint that easy. my folks never liked football, had no older brothers, and when you are 4 or 5 and watching football geography doesnt come into it.

no one else understands why i cheer on benayoun tackling terry or something like that.

id rather liverpool won anything than england winning anything. id rather we did the double over cheatski than england winning the world cup. but in scousers eyes i'll never be seen as a proper fan, and that sucks... but do i stop supporting? do i !

That's the attitude you should have.

You're a scouser at heart. That's all that counts.

But some don't see that. We have a certain section of our support that our fans should be scouse and scouse only. Some that judge as soon as they hear a non-scouse accent. Unfortunately this has spread a little because there's probably some who've just jumped on this bandwagon to make themselves look like better fans. Also there are those who have had a bad experience with a glory hunter and now just assume every ooter is a glory hunter.

It's a shame. But this has only really started since we did get alot of bandwagon fans post-istanbul.

by **adamnbarrett** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:11 am

Dundalk wrote:I see the the message coming across as political saying you are part of a country but want to be seen as some thing else

This will tell you all you need to know

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:13 am

Ciggy wrote:[B]u[B/]ckin clown?

Our Adam is only young and defending what he believes is right.
And he is and me as a scouser has to support him because I know what he's getting at .
The people in this topic that are saying he is wrong are not scouse fair enough, but we sort of know you lot

Its the others that we worry about, they think its cool to go to Anfield with an England face paint on, or a mad jester hat, or a gorrilla suit, or mad wigs ten times bigger than the Harry Enfield one.

Now cmon why?

Your going to watch your team why dress like a f[B]u[/]ckin clown?
Im made up our Adams carrying on my traditions cause I say the same.

I have know idea why people dress like that, I'm embarissed for them also. Numpties.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:16 am

I love Liverpool to be successfull, but sometimes I wish we wernt for tha amount of knobs that jump on the train.
The amount of tw@ts that have jumped on the Liverpool train since we won in 005 is unbelievable and is dilluting our own fans by getting tickets.

So I hope we win feck all :;):

Imagine we win the league all the manc and chelsea cling ons doesnt bare thinking about.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:19 am

Ciggy wrote:Infact fuck it whilst we are at it my mother scrubbed steps at 5 o'clock in the morning to dress me when she didnt have a shirt on her back.
I had buckskin leather shoes a leather coat, my mother had nothing 2 dresses and a pair of mocasins.
She got a job with BAT built her way up into a great job to provide for me, fantasic job to put it planly.

Thatcher shut the company down.
Like she did to nearly every big buisness on Merseyside.
Tory feckin kunt cant wait for that arl hag to die what a tw@t.
That woman ruined Liverpool ruined it.
And the daugheter can feck off aswell trying to get scarps out of Hells Kitchen cause they are skint no mark kunts.

Arl tw@t that Maggie Thatcher the worst thing that ever happened to this city.

You’re story is one that leaves me feeling quite saddened, but not surprised and my dad’s best friend lost his home and his small electrical business in London because of Thatcher’s anti-working class agenda. Millions of people suffered at the hands of Thatcher’s zero tolerance towards her enemy the ‘working class’. London wasn’t all a bed of roses; you only have to look at the poll tax riots of 1990 to see that Londoners were discontent with life under Thatcher.

It’s time to forget about Thatcher and move on, after all she left office some seventeen years ago and life in Liverpool seems to be on the mend and the European Capital of Culture accolade highlights this.

Now I am off to bed, I have wasted too much time on this discussion, but those who say this issue is plainly down to football are lying through their teeth. This discussion is politically charged IMO.

by **Dundalk** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:38 am

adamnbarrett wrote:
Dundalk wrote:I see the the message coming across as political saying you are part of a country but want to be seen as some thing else

This will tell you all you need to know

I have read through that web site many times before Adam, I can see were you are coming from on this one and fair play to you for standing up for what you believe in but Im afraid Im with Woof on this one.....

Everyone to their one opinion.

by **red37** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:39 am

Im not sure if there ever will be a time to forget the legacy that Thatcher has left behind..never mind forgive it.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:39 am

I think this is a non-issue. There is no great shame in re-affirming your regional heritage. The club must be driven locally by it's own people, they are the foundation of the club.

At the same time, scousers recognise that every internationally renowned club will have its fair share of 'oot'ers' who come to visit. It's not as if Anfield has turned into the prawn sandwich brigade.

Saying, 'we're not English, we're scouse' is hardly a divisive mechanism, and in no way is it a demonstration of hostility towards oot'ers. It's just re-affirming local pride, which is how it should be.

The perception by some that Liverpool is persecuted or victimised by the rest of the country however, is wrong.

by **RedorDead** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:39 am

adamnbarrett wrote:
Dundalk wrote:
adamnbarrett wrote:
dawson99 wrote:sorry adam but that isnt how all people see you.
thats the same percentage that see irish as alcoholics, scottish as deep fry loving drunk skints and welsh as sheep $

its a missed perception that all that london papers do is have digs at liverpool, culture, football whatever. thats just a narrow minded view from you if thats what you think the rest of the public think of liverpool.

Fact is from people ive talked to:

the further up north you get the friendlier the people get

liverpool is a great city, with great people

liverpool play great football finally again (a lot of gooners respect us)

so what if 1 in a 1000 say u r whatever, they'll all be darwin award candidates anyway

I know that isn't the case with some (mainly football fans) beleive what they hear on the terraces and make their mind up from that when all of it is stereotyping.

The 'we are not, english we are scouse' is not about nationality, it's about football only really for me. We don't want to be part of a national football team that says that we are this and that.

Well then sing about football because that is not the message that is coming across

just out of interest....

from your own point of view, how do you see the message coming across and I'll tell you whether you've got it bang on or not.

adam...the way this is coming across from some is that scousers hate the rest of england. scousers feel that the rest of england hate them and that scousers generally want to disassociate themselves with England as a whole.
From some posts on here it is nothing to do with football but to do with a sense of anger at central government in London letting them down two decades ago.
I sympathise with the sentiment that Thatchers government destroyed northern industry and cost a lot of good working class people their living but what gives Liverpool the nod over Sheffield, South Wales and the other industrial towns? Towns like Portsmouth on the south coast suffered too.
I don't want to alienate myself from the scousers on here, I really am very proud to support Liverpool FC and love the city of Liverpool and it's people but some of the comments here just seem over the top.
I hear a lot of talk about the blue "bitters" being Everton but some posts on here seem more bitter than anything I have heard before....and yes I do realise you have a right to feel aggrieved, politically and in your treatment in the press over Hillsborough but decades have passed since and times have changed.
Someone metioned that Liverpool is perceived as a beautiful, developing, modern and clutural city...that is true. Despite what some might think England is proud of Liverpool. England is proud of all it's beautiful cities and rolling country side and history. It's only a shame that a minority go against that grain and drive a wedge between the local's of various parts of teh country.

by **Dundalk** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:41 am

LFC2007 wrote:I think this is a non-issue. There is no great shame in re-affirming your regional heritage. The club must be driven locally by it's own people, they are the foundation of the club.

At the same time, scousers recognise that every internationally renowned club will have its fair share of 'oot'ers' who come to visit. It's not as if Anfield has turned into the prawn sandwich brigade.

Saying, 'we're not English, we're scouse' is hardly a divisive mechanism, and in no way is it a demonstration of hostility towards oot'ers. It's just re-affirming local pride, which is how it should be.

The perception by some that Liverpool is persecuted or victimised by the rest of the country however, is wrong.

Well said.

by **The Bench** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:53 am

The topic has been driven totally off track. It's not about where you're from, it's not about how much you love LFC. It's a thing that is ingrained in the city of Liverpool.

The sense of pride and the defence of that pride is a passion ingrained in the people of the city of Liverpool.

The team that everyone supports is the same team. The cities we all live in are not.

There are many liverpool fans who understand the stance, many who don't. From both camps will be people from Liverpool and others from other places.

Real fans love the team through hell and high water. Whatever the city they live in.

You might not agree with the stance and see it as seperatism, and some do take it to that level, most don't. Those that don't, however, will still be very apathetic as to the fortunes of the national team, cos they've seen success more through their own club than they'll ever see through their country.

The second point of many posts is the pure lack of understanding of the Liverpool match goer. I totally agree that we're different, and those that turn up in stupid hats with tv inspired identikit football songs just don't get it. There are far more that do get it who can never get to the game and many scousers are angry about this more than where you're from.

Learn the songs, learn the culture. If you don't get it, don't go the match, or if you do, DO NOT try to make it a soccer am(yawn) day out. That is definitely not what its about. Its a Passion, with a unique standpoint that we need to preserve. Maybe not all would agree with the methods but if someone doesn't take a stance, will we not just be another soulless mass, infiltrated by a lack of knowledge?

I've tried not to comment on the wider issues of separitism and keep it based on following a team we all proclaim to love. Hope this came across.

YNWA

by **Ciggy** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:05 am

I dont really care I love you all you are forgiven, apart from Stu the Red who is a wool anyway

Go fourth my woollybacks and multiply :cool:

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:05 am

Jesus christ, how has this turned into a political debate of the boringest proportions ?

Its not anti establishment, just pro scouse.

We cant stand side by side next to people who have called us theives, accused us of eating rats for treats and tediously told us of our perceived unemployment problems for years and unite. Not on your nelly.

Its not a political thing though, its football.

One City, One Team; Liverpool.

And this rubbish about OOT's is even as much of a myth as the unemployment issue.

Liverpool is a melting pot of so many different cultures and backgrounds, welcomed when the city was the biggest port of the British Empire, and still welcomed to this day. As scousers we are made up of Scouse, Irish, Scottish, American and African blood, merchants and sailors and everything in between. At times the people who have the biggest problem with coming from outside the city seems to be those from outside the city limits.

Read internet forums across the web and its reaching paranoia levels. RTK, an excellent incentive born out of frustration at the lack of atmosphere and class of some of our newer and younger fans hasnt helped, but its not anti OOT, its exactly the opposite. We welcome you to our city and invite you to join us worshipping at our cathederal, but we want you to learn the ways of the football club, and indeed the Kop. Get your education from the Kop, in the exact same way that all other Liverpool fans before you did, wether they where from Liverpool, London, Ireland or beyond.

On the England team, a media controlled team, comprised of players who irritate and anger us in equal measure week in week out which insists on over using and under employing our players in equal measure and that more often than not returns to us players with horrendous injuries from meaningless friendlies is not what interests us. Not now and not ever.

Its not political.

Its not geographical.

Its about the values and traditions of the greatest team in the land, and a city scousers beleive to be the greatest in the land also.

Liverpool FC Forum

The 'we're not english, we're scouse' stuff - Bit sad really

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