Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ace Ventura** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:49 am

I think a lot of this is getting blown out of proportion. As far as i can see it mostly its about scousers disassociating themselves with the cringe worthy nationalism thats portrayed by the majority of our country when major tournaments come along. The god save the queen songs and rule britannia songs just seem so naff to me and probably to alot of people but they still get belted out every England game as well as the f'ckin annoying brass band.
The fact that in this decade the England selection process for the squad and the actual team is a joke doesnt help, centred around media darlings who happen to be southerners like Beckham, JT (which i despise by the way-why cant he jus be called John Terry) Lampard and Ferdinand, all of them having performed really poorly for England often and always certainties to play.
England fans are patriotic and proud to be supporting there country, scousers love there own city and are proud when they are travelling abroad supporting their club, cant see whats wrong with that. The people are different than in other cities as they would be, every city will be different. If scousers choose to be all for the city or there club rather than for the country that should be there own perogative.
I am not totally sure about this but ask a Liverpool or even an Everton supporter what they would rather....there club to win the league or England to win the world cup, what would the answer be ? I am certain the club to win the league.
Ask a cockney if they would prefer the league or the world cup...i am again only guessing here but feel the world cup would be given as a reply by the majority.
Personal preference it is.
By the way i am from Birkenhead so am NOT a scouser but despise all this England rubbish meself, not since euro 96 when i was still a bit of a kid have i had any kind of buzz of excitement watching an England match. Now they are an annoying distraction.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:09 am

You're right, Ace. It all is getting blown out of proportion. It's just odd for someone like me, an outsider, to see something like this be turned into a political football (no pun intended). It's interesting for me to hear views I never thought I'd hear when it comes to opinions on the national side. It is cringeworthy to hear a national anthem being sung 2 or 3 times, and sometimes more, during a game of football while it's still being played, and that brass fooking band needs new f*cking tunes as well. It's always The Great Escape. I mean, it's a brass band, right? Why not some Barry White, or Paul Simon's You Can Call Me Al rendition?

by **Rafa D** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:48 am

I aint a fucking scouser, I'm from Birkenhead

This has been blown way out of proportion.

by **The Ace1983** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:30 am

Bamaga man wrote:
but I consider myself British, not English

And you've lost your identity straight away.

Do you mind explaining that. Apparently I am one of those people who a comment like that is lost upon.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:09 pm

The Ace1983 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
but I consider myself British, not English

And you've lost your identity straight away.

Do you mind explaining that. Apparently I am one of those people who a comment like that is lost upon.

Well can you explain to me why you consider yourself British and not English ?

by **daxy1** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:24 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:I aint a fucking scouser, I'm from Birkenhead

This has been blown way out of proportion.

shut the fukc up you wool!....

im from birkenhead to but it's club first country second for me!

by **The Ace1983** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:32 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
The Ace1983 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
but I consider myself British, not English

And you've lost your identity straight away.

Do you mind explaining that. Apparently I am one of those people who a comment like that is lost upon.

Well can you explain to me why you consider yourself British and not English ?

I can certainly try.

I was born in London to a scouser and a scot. My real name, in full is made up of a anglosaxon first name, scots middle name and a norman surname. Though i live in England, my family has a home in Scotland and I am priviledged enough to be able to wear four tartans. There is also irish blood in veins. I support the English football team (when McClaren isn't managing them, and after Liverpool) but I support the Scottish Rugby team (which will probably make this a depressing world cup but at least I am not French).

They say that home is where the heart is and there is a great deal of my heart above the border. I treasure the union between England and Scotland because it unites the history of my family and myself.

Being English is just as important to me as being Scottish, and the only name for that is British. If someone asked me to choose between the two, I could not do it and I would refuse to do so.

If you think that this strips me of the right to an identity then I am sorry if it offends you, but I shall not change it because it is my choice. If you ever see a flag flying over my house, it will be that of the union between St. George and St. Andrew. Or the jolly roger, but that's just because it is so blatently the best flag EVER. But my identity is not defined by a piece of cloth, but by my mind, my action and my words.

I am British. I am a Liverpool fan. And I am damn proud of both of these facts.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:02 pm

The Ace1983 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
The Ace1983 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
but I consider myself British, not English

And you've lost your identity straight away.

Do you mind explaining that. Apparently I am one of those people who a comment like that is lost upon.

Well can you explain to me why you consider yourself British and not English ?

I can certainly try.

I was born in London to a scouser and a scot. My real name, in full is made up of a anglosaxon first name, scots middle name and a norman surname. Though i live in England, my family has a home in Scotland and I am priviledged enough to be able to wear four tartans. There is also irish blood in veins. I support the English football team (when McClaren isn't managing them, and after Liverpool) but I support the Scottish Rugby team (which will probably make this a depressing world cup but at least I am not French).

They say that home is where the heart is and there is a great deal of my heart above the border. I treasure the union between England and Scotland because it unites the history of my family and myself.

Being English is just as important to me as being Scottish, and the only name for that is British. If someone asked me to choose between the two, I could not do it and I would refuse to do so.

If you think that this strips me of the right to an identity then I am sorry if it offends you, but I shall not change it because it is my choice. If you ever see a flag flying over my house, it will be that of the union between St. George and St. Andrew. Or the jolly roger, but that's just because it is so blatently the best flag EVER. But my identity is not defined by a piece of cloth, but by my mind, my action and my words.

I am British. I am a Liverpool fan. And I am damn proud of both of these facts.

Fair enough.

I suppose you are British

It doesnt offend me atall, I just think that being English through and through gives me more of an identity, to which I stand by my country.

When I hear club over country thats fine, I prefer my club over country (football). But when I hear this "we're not English we're Scouse" I feel very embarissed for those who scream that from the rooftops. But those same supporters will mock "Chavs" like myself, Chelsea fans, Arsenal fans, West Ham fans and Spurs fans for bringing a St.George flag along to one of there matches. Their laughed off for being proud of being English, and these "Scouse not English" idiots have the audacity to mock them.

Also to tell you the truth, when does the average Englishman get the chance to celebrate his Englishness ? St. Georges day no ! We dont really, apart from sporting events such as Cricket, Rugby and football. They are the only times we get to celebrate our proud nation, so I cant honestly knock any Englishman whether he be a Chelsea fan at the Bridge, or an OAP at the Cricket for holding the St. George cross up.

Their English and proud, I'm English and proud, but to say your not English when infact you are is utter tosh.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:15 pm

Bm a st georges flag has no place at anfield , just like it has no place at old trafford or stamford bridge , that's the point being made , we are not the english national team . Now nobody is saying to you or anyone else to stop being proud of being english , so please pay us the same respect and allow us to be proud of liverpool (the city) or of being scouse.

by **adamnbarrett** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:20 pm

The Grudge wrote:Have to say that when i hear the term 'We're not English we are scouse'
It makes me cringe!

Theres no problem being proud of your home town/city and being proud of your roots regardless of where your from.But until Liverpool becomes and independant state scousers are as English as someone from Leeds or London and will be looked upon by the rest of the country and world as just that.
Its fair to say that 99% of scousers are happy to be English and the ones that say we're not English we are scouse embaress their fellow scousers and more so themselves.Sadly they are too thick to see how stupid,shallow and narrow minded they appear and how much they let the city down.

To me this is a whole different arguement than the club vs country thing!

Would you ever see Carra or Gerrard saying'Im not English i am scouse'?

No because they have a brain and are not idiots!

wrong.

There would be a media out cry and cause a bunch of hassle that they don't need. That's why they don't and also maybe they wanted to win things like the world cup that are not possible with Liverpool.

Let me ask you, if they are as patriotic as you think. Why do neither of them sing the national anthem when the teams line up? (bearing in mind that Gerrard does now because he was slated by the media for not doing so)

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:23 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Bm a st georges flag has no place at anfield , just like it has no place at old trafford or stamford bridge , that's the point being made , we are not the english national team . Now nobody is saying to you or anyone else to stop being proud of being english , so please pay us the same respect and allow us to be proud of liverpool (the city) or of being scouse.

I am re-read through my posts, I dont knock you for being Scouse I respect you for that, I just dont understand those who claim there Scouse but not English. That IMO is ridiculous.

The St.George cross may not be welcome at Anfield, but thats your opinion it shouldnt be welcomed around other grounds in ENGLAND.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:29 pm

i am not sure people claim they are scouse and not english mate, i am scouse and i am english. in people when people ask where i am from, i tell them 'liverpool', i dont say england unless they have never heard of liverpool (which considering the majority of thais are liverpool fans is unlikely)

the fact is i am proud to be scouse first and proud to be english second. as for football liverpool come first way ahead of england. however rugby and cricket etc i like to watch england.

there is just something about the whole england setup where the same old underachievers get trotted out every game even whilst injured, rather than have a team based on performances at the time rather that 'rio had a good game once' and 'i know rooney has done nothing for england but he is the best in the world' bollox. these players have not performed at international level for a long time and their appearances are based on who they play for

by **The Ace1983** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:33 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
The Ace1983 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
The Ace1983 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
but I consider myself British, not English

And you've lost your identity straight away.

Do you mind explaining that. Apparently I am one of those people who a comment like that is lost upon.

Well can you explain to me why you consider yourself British and not English ?

I can certainly try.

I was born in London to a scouser and a scot. My real name, in full is made up of a anglosaxon first name, scots middle name and a norman surname. Though i live in England, my family has a home in Scotland and I am priviledged enough to be able to wear four tartans. There is also irish blood in veins. I support the English football team (when McClaren isn't managing them, and after Liverpool) but I support the Scottish Rugby team (which will probably make this a depressing world cup but at least I am not French).

They say that home is where the heart is and there is a great deal of my heart above the border. I treasure the union between England and Scotland because it unites the history of my family and myself.

Being English is just as important to me as being Scottish, and the only name for that is British. If someone asked me to choose between the two, I could not do it and I would refuse to do so.

If you think that this strips me of the right to an identity then I am sorry if it offends you, but I shall not change it because it is my choice. If you ever see a flag flying over my house, it will be that of the union between St. George and St. Andrew. Or the jolly roger, but that's just because it is so blatently the best flag EVER. But my identity is not defined by a piece of cloth, but by my mind, my action and my words.

I am British. I am a Liverpool fan. And I am damn proud of both of these facts.

Fair enough.

I suppose you are British

It doesnt offend me atall, I just think that being English through and through gives me more of an identity, to which I stand by my country.

When I hear club over country thats fine, I prefer my club over country (football). But when I hear this "we're not English we're Scouse" I feel very embarissed for those who scream that from the rooftops. But those same supporters will mock "Chavs" like myself, Chelsea fans, Arsenal fans, West Ham fans and Spurs fans for bringing a St.George flag along to one of there matches. Their laughed off for being proud of being English, and these "Scouse not English" idiots have the audacity to mock them.

Also to tell you the truth, when does the average Englishman get the chance to celebrate his Englishness ? St. Georges day no ! We dont really, apart from sporting events such as Cricket, Rugby and football. They are the only times we get to celebrate our proud nation, so I cant honestly knock any Englishman whether he be a Chelsea fan at the Bridge, or an OAP at the Cricket for holding the St. George cross up.

Their English and proud, I'm English and proud, but to say your not English when infact you are is utter tosh.

You are as entitled to your nationality as I am, and one man's tosh is another man's birth-right. When the Union flag is taken down from the houses of parliament, Buck palace and Balmoral, I'll have a decision to make I suppose. But until then I will always write on any form that I am British.

As for the scousers who deny their nationality, that too is their choice, and a choice protected by their freedom. I'm not too fond of the idea outside of football, though it is not my place to judge.

Liverpool is disenfranchised by the rest of England for reasons I am not quite sure of. It is quite a unique place, it has one of those accents that you either love or hate, and it has its own history and heritage. The stuff about all scouser's being tealeafs is tantamount to racism frankly, but it is the rest of England that doles out this unwarrented discrimination. The Irish (both northern and republican) seem to favour Liverpool over any other place in this country, Scots and Welsh too. My Scottish relatives always remind me that the first XI men to ever pull on the red shirt were all dram drinkers like themselves. While the rest of the United Kingdom and Ireland find great affinity with Liverpool, the rest of England are constantly putting it down, so I can understand why some scousers find distance between themselves and the rest of the country. Especially when Manchester is the next big town.

But like I said, I don't know enough about it really, at least from the scouse side. Each man's reasons are his own, and we must respect that.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:33 pm

peewee wrote:i am not sure people claim they are scouse and not english mate, i am scouse and i am english. in people when people ask where i am from, i tell them 'liverpool', i dont say england unless they have never heard of liverpool (which considering the majority of thais are liverpool fans is unlikely)

the fact is i am proud to be scouse first and proud to be english second. as for football liverpool come first way ahead of england. however rugby and cricket etc i like to watch england.

there is just something about the whole england setup where the same old underachievers get trotted out every game even whilst injured, rather than have a team based on performances at the time rather that 'rio had a good game once' and 'i know rooney has done nothing for england but he is the best in the world' bollox. these players have not performed at international level for a long time and their appearances are based on who they play for

I agree with what your saying Peewee. And I mean no disrespect to Scousers when airing my views, but IMO just logical observations.

BTW when I'm abroad and asked where I'm from I say 'London' if they;ve never heard of it then I tell em England

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:33 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Bm a st georges flag has no place at anfield , just like it has no place at old trafford or stamford bridge , that's the point being made , we are not the english national team . Now nobody is saying to you or anyone else to stop being proud of being english , so please pay us the same respect and allow us to be proud of liverpool (the city) or of being scouse.

I don’t feel anyone is saying you shouldn’t be proud of your city/hometown and favour the English NT over your chosen club. I don’t feel anyone is saying you shouldn’t feel scouse or proud of being one, but to the people outside of Liverpool who see this ‘we’re not English we are Scouse’ mentality, end up believing Liverpudlians are deluded, ignorant people when this is not the case for everyone.

There always has to be a choice between who a supporter supports more, his club or his country, why is this? I refuse to choose, because to me both are important, I want England to win trophies and I want Liverpool to win trophies, I do not see why there always needs to be a choice between one or the other.

I have just as much passion for my club as I do for country and that will never change and I dislike all these categories people put themselves in, to me an English person is an English person, and it doesn’t matter if they come from Kirkby or Cornwall.

If a majority of Liverpudlians do not want to associate themselves with England, then I suggest a group of representatives lobby Parliament to have Liverpool erased from the English coastline. There is no point belonging to England, when a person(s) heart and mind is not in favour of England.

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The 'we're not english, we're scouse' stuff - Bit sad really

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