Liverpool FC Forum

by **AjaxMan** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:36 pm

Hello. I am from Holland and I'm a fan of Ajax. I think Liverpool has paid far too much when they really pay 20 million euro's. You only pay such money for players with good statistics. Babel doesn't score a lot of goals and he doesn't give a lot of assists.

But still everyone can see Babel has talent. Dutch people see him as a player like Henry. He is extremely fast, strong and has the ability to get past defenders like Arjen Robben en Robin van Persie. The problems are his ball control in small spaces, his cross, his left foot and especially, his shots on goal. I hate to say it as 'Ajacied', but Feyenoord- and PSV-fans are laughing about his shots 20 meters wide in the stands. He shoots with too much power and to little technique.

Babel's best position is attacker in 4-4-2. He needs space for his runs. That's why in Holland he's not the star. In Ajax 4-3-3 he doesn't have the space for his actions. When Liverpool plays him in the centre they need to play defensive football, but I don't think that's a problem with a coward coach like Benitez. In Holland we don't like defensive coaches like Benitez and Mourinho, but for a player like Babel it's fantastic. Now he can really play at his best.

When Liverpool wants to play attacking style, they need to play Babel at the leftside. There he can get the ball in the outside of the pitch, dribble inside with his better right foot and make the opponent choose. They can't just let him dribble to the goal. That creates danger.

So I think Babel still has to learn a lot. You can't expect goals and assists already. That's why in Holland everyone thought it was better for Babel to stay at Ajax for one or two more years. but Ajax will never get more than 20 million euro's for Babel, that's impossible. That's why they let him go so easily.

I wish Babel all the best in England and I hope he will become a world class player there. But I am not sure if he'll really succeeds.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:42 pm

AjaxMan wrote:a coward coach like Benitez. In Holland we don't like defensive coaches like Benitez and Mourinho

Perhaps that's why the dutch league is so poor? You could do with a Benitez or a Mourinho!

Maybe "coward" was lost in translation, Benitez is perhaps a little negative, but you have to put it in the context of the players we have - maybe now with Torres, Babel and another signing or two we can be more offensive especially away from home. Anyone who read Tomkins' article on Torres will know my point.

by **maguskwt** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:43 pm

even though i'm very glad that we're going to sign babel... one concern is we haven't signed a proper winger at all... like LFC2007 mentioned babel is a left sided attacker or second striker not a winger... benayoun is not a winger either...

are we going to play 4-3-3 i wonder... might not be bad if we do so...

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:46 pm

AjaxMan wrote:that's a problem with a coward coach like Benitez. In Holland we don't like defensive coaches like Benitez and Mourinho

They don't come more defensive--excuse me, I suppose that should be 'cowardly'--than Ronald Koeman! PSV made us look positively swash-buckling in the CL quarter-finals.

by **maguskwt** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:51 pm

AjaxMan wrote:In Holland we don't like defensive coaches like Benitez and Mourinho, but for a player like Babel it's fantastic. Now he can really play at his best.

anyone who says benitez is a defensive coach (same goes for mourinho actually) is naive... sometimes he can be a bit too careful in the premier league... but he's not a defensive coach... look at our home games agains't arsenal in the PL and chelsea inthe CL... and the away game at barcelona...

by **AjaxMan** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:00 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
AjaxMan wrote:a coward coach like Benitez. In Holland we don't like defensive coaches like Benitez and Mourinho

Perhaps that's why the dutch league is so poor? You could do with a Benitez or a Mourinho!

Maybe "coward" was lost in translation, Benitez is perhaps a little negative, but you have to put it in the context of the players we have - maybe now with Torres, Babel and another signing or two we can be more offensive especially away from home. Anyone who read Tomkins' article on Torres will know my point.

No, I really mean a coach afraid of losing and playing for safe. People go to the stadium to see a good match, not to see two teams defending and hoping for one quick sneaky goal.

The Dutch league is poor? But every year the 'so called' big clubs from England come to Holland to buy players... Our league is full of talent. You should watch Huntelaar, Sneijder, Heitinga, Emanuelson, Schaars, Donk, Drenthe, De Zeeuw..

That's because in Holland we give youth players chances to become good players. In England they only buy foreigners. But what when there's no money anymore in English football? Then there's nothing, because there's no basis of talented youth.

The problem in Holland's Eredivisie is money. We can't compete with the big countries, so we can't keep our stars in the Eredivisie.

That's also the problem with Babel. Babel is not the star of the Eredivisie. He is just a big talent, like many others. In the national team he has players like Van Nistelrooy, Huntelaar, Kuyt, Van Persie, Robben and Castelen before him.

by **AjaxMan** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:03 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
AjaxMan wrote:that's a problem with a coward coach like Benitez. In Holland we don't like defensive coaches like Benitez and Mourinho

They don't come more defensive--excuse me, I suppose that should be 'cowardly'--than Ronald Koeman! PSV made us look positively swash-buckling in the CL quarter-finals.

I agree. PSV and especially Koeman are a shame for Dutch football. They only buy players, give no chances to talents and play defensive football. Even in the national league. Do you know Koeman is fired at Ajax for his defensive football?

He played 3-5-2 at Ajax... :help

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 pm

AjaxMan wrote:No, I really mean a coach afraid of losing and playing for safe. People go to the stadium to see a good match, not to see two teams defending and hoping for one quick sneaky goal.

The Dutch league is poor? But every year the 'so called' big clubs from England come to Holland to buy players... Our league is full of talent. You should watch Huntelaar, Sneijder, Heitinga, Emanuelson, Schaars, Donk, Drenthe, De Zeeuw..

That's because in Holland we give youth players chances to become good players. In England they only buy foreigners. But what when there's no money anymore in English football? Then there's nothing, because there's no basis of talented youth.

The problem in Holland's Eredivisie is money. We can't compete with the big countries, so we can't keep our stars in the Eredivisie.

That's also the problem with Babel. Babel is not the star of the Eredivisie. He is just a big talent, like many others. In the national team he has players like Van Nistelrooy, Huntelaar, Kuyt, Van Persie, Robben and Castelen before him.

People go to a game to watch their team win, ideally it would be an open attacking game with flair but that is not always the case. I suggest you watch some of our home games then you may understand that we do attack and we don't hold back. Perhaps you will watch Liverpool vs. PSV and understand this also.

I'd also suggest you take note of Koeman, one of the most defensive coaches in Europe.

The Dutch league is poor, yes. It has quality players, as does the Portuguese league and the Brazilian league - but they are also poor in comparison to the major european leagues.
Other than Ajax, PSV and AZ your league is poor in quality. Even those teams can barely compete at a european level.

The Premier League p!sses on the Eredvisie, it doesn't compare.

by **puroresu** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:10 pm

AjaxMan wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
AjaxMan wrote:a coward coach like Benitez. In Holland we don't like defensive coaches like Benitez and Mourinho

Perhaps that's why the dutch league is so poor? You could do with a Benitez or a Mourinho!

Maybe "coward" was lost in translation, Benitez is perhaps a little negative, but you have to put it in the context of the players we have - maybe now with Torres, Babel and another signing or two we can be more offensive especially away from home. Anyone who read Tomkins' article on Torres will know my point.

No, I really mean a coach afraid of losing and playing for safe. People go to the stadium to see a good match, not to see two teams defending and hoping for one quick sneaky goal.

The Dutch league is poor? But every year the 'so called' big clubs from England come to Holland to buy players... Our league is full of talent. You should watch Huntelaar, Sneijder, Heitinga, Emanuelson, Schaars, Donk, Drenthe, De Zeeuw..

That's because in Holland we give youth players chances to become good players. In England they only buy foreigners. But what when there's no money anymore in English football? Then there's nothing, because there's no basis of talented youth.

The problem in Holland's Eredivisie is money. We can't compete with the big countries, so we can't keep our stars in the Eredivisie.

That's also the problem with Babel. Babel is not the star of the Eredivisie. He is just a big talent, like many others. In the national team he has players like Van Nistelrooy, Huntelaar, Kuyt, Van Persie, Robben and Castelen before him.

good point. i use the same argument when people diss the french league. every year there clubs are raided 4 talent.

English clubs struggle to produce good players. Its quite disgraceful that the amount of money spent on academies ha produced so little.

Did u think the Atlantic league was a good idea? The best clubs from Holland, Scoland, Portugal, Turkey, Belgium etc in one league.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:14 pm

puroresu wrote:good point. i use the same argument when people diss the french league. every year there clubs are raided 4 talent.

English clubs struggle to produce good players. Its quite disgraceful that the amount of money spent on academies ha produced so little.

Did u think the Atlantic league was a good idea? The best clubs from Holland, Scoland, Portugal, Turkey, Belgium etc in one league.

You would make that point, I've never seen you compliment anything British.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:15 pm

guy on talksport from holland say babel is like a young henry

left wing, cutting in......fast, skillfull

heres hoping

by **Dutchsky** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:23 pm

LittleHobo wrote:guy on talksport from holland say babel is like a young henry

left wing, cutting in......fast, skillfull

heres hoping

well he ain't

but you never know what happens....

atm he is a 'one trick pony'

and his stats aren't too good yet....
stats 2004 - 2007
73 played 14 scored (league)

Guess he needs another 3 - 4 yrs to reach full potential.

by **destro** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:23 pm

Just watched clips of him on the ever reliable Youtube, he looks really,really quick both with and without the ball has two good feet and isn't bad in the air.

Yes i know any player can look decent on there, but it wasnt so much the mini goal compilation but the pace that the guy has, Bellamy proved pace isnt always everything as did Cisse, but if he can time his runs and STAY ONSIDE he will be IMO a pretty decent acquisition to the squad.

He needs to stop that celebration though, almost 14 million for a player who ends up breaking his neck celebrating a goal is not good business

by **Beerbaron** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:32 pm

Think we've taken the biggest risk off the transfer season by far,think we just paid way over the odds for this lad.Espically when we need wingers so badly,the only bit of sence i can see in paying that much money for him,is if Rafa plans on shaking up the formation next year an going with 3 up front,got a strong feeling he might do that+go 4-3-3 next year.Look at the players we have+the players we've signed,the best players we have at the club would only fit into this system.The 4 usual lads at the back,Xabi,Mascarhano+Stevie in the middle+Babel,Kuyt+Torres up top.Otherwise dont see how we could have paid that much for him,unless im missing something..which i usually do i suppose!

by **AjaxMan** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:35 pm

LFC2007 wrote:I'd also suggest you take note of Koeman, one of the most defensive coaches in Europe.

The Dutch league is poor, yes. It has quality players, as does the Portuguese league and the Brazilian league - but they are also poor in comparison to the major european leagues.
Other than Ajax, PSV and AZ your league is poor in quality. Even those teams can barely compete at a european level.

The Premier League p!sses on the Eredvisie, it doesn't compare.

The problem is: there's no opportunity for developing winning teams, because every year the best players are signed by wealthy clubs. Ajax could have had a great team when they did keep all their stars last years:

Trabelsi (went to Man City)
Grygera (Juventus)
Van der Meyde (Internazionale)
Van der Vaart (Hamburger SV)
De Jong (Hamburger SV)
Chivu (AS Roma)
Ibrahimovic (Juventus)
Maxwell (Internazionale)
Pienaar (Borussia Dortmund)
Mido (AS Roma)
Babel (Liverpool)
De Mul (Sevilla)

Same story for PSV. Ooijer, Alex, Lee, Park, Bouma, Van Bommel, Vogel, Vennegoor of Hesselink, Robben, Kezman, Rommedahl all left the club.

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