Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:38 pm

You say there compatible, on paper maybe. But its been put to the test enough times to show it has never really sparked even the most rosey tinted lunetter wearer could see that.

Maybe if Xabi left, Gerrard wouldnt go back to the middle, but I'd like to think otherwise because I cant see any other area on the pitch where Gerrard is as good.

Fact. The team, not squad Sabre has largely been built around Alonso. The spine of the team consists of Reina, Carra, Alonso and Kuyt. Alonso has been at the center of the midfield for long time now, and IMO the team has been built around him when it should of possibly been Gerrard, thats my opinon.

No, I can't accept that as a fact without an explanation. The FACT that Alonso is the most especific midfielder of the squad, and by especific I mean not versatile, doesn't mean the squad is built around him.

If what I explained before is not valid arguement, here you have another one. Gerrard hasn't been moved around due to Alonso: Rafa says that until Mascherano arrived ALonso was the only holding mid we had because "Gerrard and Sissoko like to attack more". That's a quote more or less, I could find it.

Which means their roles are different. And which means Gerrard and Alonso do not compete for the same spot in the squad.

When Alonso and Gerrard played together, you say it didn't work. It didn't work because they play together or because the surrounding team alongside them didn't work together? It's a tough question, and it would be difficult to know the answer.

For me Gerrard has been played his not favourite position because of the greater good of the team. Should we have a proper RM and AM, then Gerrard would play in CM with no doubts. Meaning, if there's 2 places for CM, one is for Gerrard, and the other one, with another role, for Alonso or Mascherano. But Gerrard would have his spot secured, IMHO.

You see, I think Gerrard has been moved because Rafa relies a lot on his capabilities, not because he has to accomodate him somewhere. Time will tell who's right.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:39 pm

davo_LFC wrote:The thing with alonso is that he is far far more effective when he has quality around him, with two top class wingers and some strikers who can actually show some movement upfront a la eto'o then he would have a greater impact, it seems to me like he doesnt have enough options most of the time and that is largely down to some of the sh.ite he has to play with. Better players will get the best out of xabi and losing him would be a massive massive mistake in my eyes.

^^^^^^^^
This will bells on.

(EDIT: sorry Sabre, I meant to point to a different post

)

by **Sabre** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:48 pm

What does mean bells on? I hope I don't start an arguement because I think Gerrard is fúcking good wherever he plays, and Alonso is less versatile! :laugh:

I just can't understand how some people think that, when it's obvious gerrard is the best player of the squad. His position is CM (not holding mid), but his "problem" is that he's so complete he can do a job in the right and as AM. He's bloody good!

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:53 pm

I meant that I agree wholeheartedly with the post above. Unfortunately, I was so slow posting that about 20 posts got inbetween my arrows and the post I was pointing to. :laugh:

by **destro** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:53 pm

Sabre wrote:What does mean bells on?

It is a saying that basically means you agree with someone. Like saying 'with a cherry on top' its a way of saying i agree there is not a lot to add and thats the finishing touch

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:54 pm

I agree with Bamaga, the Gerrard - Alonso partnership hasn't worked, Rafa seems to agree with Bamaga as well, as he never seems to play them together without a "REAL" defensive midfielder playing as well.ie Hamman or Mascherano. He prefered to play Sissoko with Alonso, and once Mascherano came he was the chosen partner for either Gerrard or Alonso.

by **gato_busta** » Mon May 28, 2007 4:14 pm

I really don't understand why some people are so eager for Xabi to leave. He has been one of the best players on the team since he joined and It would be a huge mistake for us to sell him. As Sabre said, you don't improve the team by getting rid of your best players. At the moment we only have two holding midfield players on the team in Xabi and Mascherano. Sissoko is not a holding midfielder, never has and never will. He is a center mid, who takes care of breaking up play from high up the field, preventing plays from starting to put it in a different way. Both Xabi and Mascherano bring something different to the team, Xabi having great vision to spot players and sending those wonderful passes we know he can do while Mascherano is a quick defensive player, good on man marking, regaining the ball and stopping play. They can play together in a 4-5-1, 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 with 2 holding midfielders on pay, or if only one is to play it will be better for rotation.

If we were to sell Alonso, that would leave Mascherano as the only holding mid in the team. If he gets injured then we would probably have to put Gerrard in his position or maybe Leiva who is still unproven in the team. In that case, I believe we would be wasting Gerrard in that position and taking a huge risk by playing Leiva there. We can't become a better team by selling an asset such as Xabi, especially since we know that Rafa wants to rotate the squad and we now know that we have two world class holding midfielders in the team!

On another note, next season we have Leiva (central mid) and Leto (right wing) comming into the team, both 20 years old. We also have players like Hammill, Anderson, Lindfield and other youth players who will be 19 come next season. Some of them will have first team chances while others won't. IMO Sissoko should stay on the team too as he is only 21 and is already a proven player in the team. I really don't see him staying with us after next season, but he still has a role to play until the new players settle in.

Finally, I really don't see a reason to sell players now that we have new owners. Money is not an issue now as they have stated they will back Benitez to improve the team. We know Benitez will get rid of players that are not improving the team (Gonzales?) and at the moment, with our current squad, I don't believe there are any of this type of players left for which adding new players will bring more depth to our squad.

by **hello_red** » Mon May 28, 2007 4:43 pm

i have a gut feeling that if Alonso left, and i would be gutted dont get me wrong, we will have a fracking great go at the premiership. becasue the money brought will be a make weight for one or two quality players that needs to be brought to the club. not bothered about names just proven goal scorers who can cut the mustard.

if alaonso left also it would mean that Mascha and Gerrard would be the preferred midfield partnership and that my friends is a title winning partnership if ever i saw one! With Sissoko and Lucas as the main understudies.

We already have a rock solid defence, superb midfield. The attacking options are limited but we already have 3 quality players in Kuyt, Pennant and Crouch. Bring in some new attackingblood and watch this team be all it can be.

This team needs the the best players in every position in the country, and the second best players in the country as there understudies. Its the Liverpool way and give it a few years i feel this will happen again!

If the money from Alonso will help this then bye bye. Love the guy but him and Gerrard lack something and him and Mascha are to defensive.

Ther are my views on the matter.]

Thanks

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 28, 2007 4:46 pm

I don't think anyone "wants" to get rid of Alonso, but if we need to sacrifice one of our "big" players to strengthen in other areas he would be the obvious choice. Reina , Carra and Gerrard must stay, which leaves only Alonso or perhaps Sissoko depending on interest and fee.

I think some people are expecting too much from our new owners, I don't think they will be giving Rafa an open cheque book. He will get a transfer fund and if he wishes to suppliment that, he will have to sell. Obviously it may be better to sell someone who is on a large contract than someone on a small contract.

by **gato_busta** » Mon May 28, 2007 5:01 pm

Form what I see this is who we have for next season as of now in each position

Goalkeepers- Reina, Carson, Padelli
Central defenders- Carragher, Agger, Hyppia
Right back- Finnan, Arbeloa
Left back- Riise, Aurelio
Holding mid- Mascherano, Xabi
Central mid- Gerrard, Leiva, Sissoko
Right wing- Pennant, Leto
Left wing- Kewell
Atacking mid- Garcia
Forward- Crouch, Kuyt, Bellamy, Voronin

We know Gerrard can play on the right, Riise han play on the left, Garcia can cover both positions, and a few other players can be moved around to cover whatever is needed. With these players plus maybe youth players who will have a few games, I really think we need 2, maybe 3 high quality players. Rafa is not a man that will pay 40 million pounds for a striker, even if he is given the money to do so. I do believe he will have around 40 million to spend, half of that going for a new striker, and the remaining ammount for another player to play on the left wing and probably another defender.

by **Jan Cuelemans** » Mon May 28, 2007 5:21 pm

I think that Alonso is the one Spanish (if not any foreign player) to buy into what is "Liverpool F.C" & if you was to ask me last season if it woulld be a good idea to exchange him for any other player then I woulld have said a resounding no.

However this season he has not been as productive but if the player has the desire to stay then I would keep him, as one off season does not make him a lesser player.

So I would like to see him stay.

by **redtrader74** » Mon May 28, 2007 6:01 pm

Firstly everyone needs to understand that Xabi has not had a bad season, he has been below his best, something which Gerrrad has been also, but somehow managed player of the season again, wtf? Oh i forgot we can't criticise him. Xabi has not been finding killer passes this season, again it is patently clear why, there is not one player infront of him with pace and movement.

Gerrards all action play depends largely on his own effort, whereas Xabi needs good players infront of him to release the ball, stretch the play and make space. WE are one of the slowest teams in the prem rarely breaking with speed. Lets imagine him in the Arsenal team, ffs he'd probably get an assist each game.

If we have no plans to buy a top class fuel injected striker or have a fit Kewell, then fair enough lets sell him because a large part of Xabi's game will go unused in our team.

If we swapped Xabi for Eto, then who is going to put in the clever passes for Eto to score? Not really Gerrards strength, Mascherano, i don't think so. Also can people stop saying we have a replacement in Masher, THE ONLY CERTAIN PERIOD WE HAVE HIM IS 1 MORE YEAR.

BTW i cannot understand anyone wanting Kuyt to go, i'll admit that i don't think he is top class, but is an ideal sqaud man. He has had ONE season, scored goals around 1 in 3 and has shown masses of commitment and effort. Again lets see what he can do in season two with better options around him, plus a fit Kewell and Garcia, two players which Xabi has missed a lot aswell.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:03 pm

If we swapped Xabi for Eto, then who is going to put in the clever passes for Eto to score? Not really Gerrards strength, Mascherano, i don't think so.

Not really Alonso's strength either mate, Alonso made 1 assist all season. So not many clever passes from him either!

by **redtrader74** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:37 pm

s@int wrote:
If we swapped Xabi for Eto, then who is going to put in the clever passes for Eto to score? Not really Gerrards strength, Mascherano, i don't think so.

Not really Alonso's strength either mate, Alonso made 1 assist all season. So not many clever passes from him either!

An assist means that a goal has been scored,my point exactly, the forwards are not good enough to utilise the best of Xabis talent, which are passing and vision.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:52 pm

So what people are saying is that most of Xabi's best work goes unnoticed, and its because we have bad forwards that he's only made one assist. Who's fault is it that he's slow - gods?

So last season when he made 6 assists it was because we had much better strikers I suppose?

:laugh:

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