Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:20 pm

stmichael wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:I remember when Alonso and Gerrard were paired together, and when Gerrard went wondering up field. On occasions Gerrard would get caught out of positon leaving Xabi to deal with the attack. Firstly I remember Gerrard getting the lions share of the blame for this. I remember Lando, saying something like Xabi has to try and wipe Gerrards @rse. Fingers were pointed because we were vulnrable and exposed IMO with Xabi. That didnt happen when Gerrard partnered Hamman, Hamman was better at dealing with these types of defensive situations than Alonso is IMO. Thats why there ' holding mids'. Like I said Xabi isnt, to operate a midfield effectively with Xabi in it, you'll need both Mascha and Gerrard alongside him through the middle. But if you played a flat four midfield I think Masha and Gerrard could possibly be the better pairing.

First half in Istanbul is the case in point. Kaka ran riot in that first half. As soon as Hamann came on the game changed and Kaka hardly got a kick in the second half.

I think Alonso is top quality but I don't like the way that Rafa has used him as our most defensive midfielder at times. Alonso is far better when he influences the play further up the pitch. In his first season with us he was more attacking, often popping up on the edge of the box joining in with attacks (like against Arsenal at home when he scored one of our goals of the season).

Come Athens, Mascherano is the man to mark Kaka. We need Alonso on the creative side of things because we can't rely on Gerrard to create everything, especially if Kewell doesn't start.

by **redtrader74** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:22 pm

Although i think Mascherano has played quite well, we have not seen enough of him, he is very new to the club, so it is very likely that he his playing within himself. I get that impression from his interview on the champions league programme,( its avail to see on a new thread), and i thought he came across a very genuine humble person, and good character.

Comparisons with Alonso are therefore difficult and i think they are different types of player, i firmly believe that Xabi plays too deep sometimes, maybe Rafas discision, but he really could add to the attacking due to his excellent passing, vision and rarely used but effective shot.

IMHO i think Xabi is one of those players that looks, and is, better when he plays with better players. EG Ronaldo will always look good because he runs very fast with the ball, Gerrard can look good with average players as he has marauding runs, tough tackles, but i think Alonso needs to play with wingers and forwards who have very good movement and pace to really show the best of his passing and vision. Imagine him inplace of Carrick.....

This new season should see us acquire 1-2 top players join in the forward department that most agree is our weakest department, and i am sure we will then see Xabi at his best.

I would like to see xabi and Masha with two wingers and Stevie behind a striker it would be a decent option away from home.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:50 pm

To take the emphasis away from Alonso for a moment, I think Liverpool have too many players that offer virtually no goal threat and this desperately needs to be resolved. Pennant whilst his form has improved has scored 1, on the other wing we have had a mixed bag of players who have perhaps scored about 8 between them. (just a guess) Central we have Xabi 4, Momo 0, Mascherano 0 Zenden 0 and GERRARD 14.(no idea of the split between roles)

If they were creating loads of chances that our strikers were converting, this wouldn't be such a problem but we have failed to score in 17 games this season, 11 league games, and in many of these games we were the better team, but still managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory because we couldnt score!

This is further exacerbated by our dependance on goals from elsewhere when we opt for 1 striker etc.

by **stmichael** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:01 pm

s@int wrote:To take the emphasis away from Alonso for a moment, I think Liverpool have too many players that offer virtually no goal threat and this desperately needs to be resolved. Pennant whilst his form has improved has scored 1, on the other wing we have had a mixed bag of players who have perhaps scored about 8 between them. (just a guess) Central we have Xabi 4, Momo 0, Mascherano 0 Zenden 0 and GERRARD 14.(no idea of the split between roles)

If they were creating loads of chances that our strikers were converting, this wouldn't be such a problem but we have failed to score in 17 games this season, 11 league games, and in many of these games we were the better team, but still managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory because we couldnt score!

This is further exacerbated by our dependance on goals from elsewhere when we opt for 1 striker etc.

It's certainly an issue when you see that Ronaldo has scored one less goal than our whole entire midfield. It's also a problem of our attacking set up and not personal imo, we should have tried playing with either Kuyt or Crouch upfront and Garcia playing as the second striker and not a fifth midfielder. He's never a wide player in a million years. Similar to the set up we played in the 4-1 victory against Arsenal, but instead of Gerrard in the hole, have Garcia linking play in that role but have him slightly more attacking.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:12 pm

stmichael wrote:
s@int wrote:To take the emphasis away from Alonso for a moment, I think Liverpool have too many players that offer virtually no goal threat and this desperately needs to be resolved. Pennant whilst his form has improved has scored 1, on the other wing we have had a mixed bag of players who have perhaps scored about 8 between them. (just a guess) Central we have Xabi 4, Momo 0, Mascherano 0 Zenden 0 and GERRARD 14.(no idea of the split between roles)

If they were creating loads of chances that our strikers were converting, this wouldn't be such a problem but we have failed to score in 17 games this season, 11 league games, and in many of these games we were the better team, but still managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory because we couldnt score!

This is further exacerbated by our dependance on goals from elsewhere when we opt for 1 striker etc.

It's certainly an issue when you see that Ronaldo has scored one less goal than our whole entire midfield. It's also a problem of our attacking set up and not personal imo, we should have tried playing with either Kuyt or Crouch upfront and Garcia playing as the second striker and not a fifth midfielder. He's never a wide player in a million years. Similar to the set up we played in the 4-1 victory against Arsenal, but instead of Gerrard in the hole, have Garcia linking play in that role but have him slightly more attacking.

While I agree with you on Garcia, I think to say its not personnel is way off the mark. Pennant has scored 12 goals in over 150 games 0.06 goals per game, Alonso 20 goals in over 200 games 0.09 goals per game ,Zenden 57 goals in over 250 games 0.16 and Sissoko 0. Hardly unexpected that they have difficulty scoring going off their previous form.

by **Ade** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:20 pm

Some excellent points on here, especially on this page.

I think one is especially accurate, in saying that we don't have the right balance even if we have an embarrassment of riches. We're trying to work out who complements who the best in the middle; whether Stevie is happy or not happy playing wide right, or in the hole; whether Gonzo isn't up to it, or still adjusting; whether Kewell is the second coming or beyond fixing.

Rafa, having assembled the best central midfield quartet in Europe, is now stuck with the problem of keeping them happy. It takes time, but it would be madness to sell any of them now.

I've suspected all season that Rafa is slowly reverting to type and the formation that won him La Liga - a 4-2-3-1. Some people will argue that you can't win the Prem with that line-up, but Chelsea have looked good with it the past two seasons and have gone backwards this year trying to play a 4-4-2 with Sheva and Drogba.

With Masch and Alonso in front of the back four, you have a defensive shield and a deep-lying playmaker that could give you the platform to win a world-cup. In front of those two, Gerrard in the centre, and two quality wingers (a fit and rehabbed Kewell on the left, and someone, for me, better than Pennant out right), with a top-class striker like Villa or Eto'o. Crouch would fit into this plan, like Carew did at Valencia. He's going nowhere, but Bellamy doesn't have the brains to make it work, and I can see him going in the summer.

this gives us a fluid, interchangeable formation with power and vision all over - Stevie bombing through the middle, crosses and goals from the wings, and you can keep the best of Xabi without looking to him for goals. Masch will become a world star, the new Makelele.

I also think Rafa will start with something like this, maybe more a flat 4-5-1, in Athens, but if he does go 4-4-2 I'd bet on Masch getting the nod ahead of Xabi.

by **ConnO'var** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:52 pm

peewee wrote:listen guys, there really is no point discussing alonso, sabre will never admit to alonsos faults (and he does have them), i think alonso wont be here next season, but hey thats my opinion and i hope i am wrong, he is a decent player.

can we afford to do without him? well my answer to that is 'have we won the leauge with him?' so yes we can afford to do without him, i prefer to see mash in the starting line up with gerrard central, gerrard is not wide player, he isnt a winger so what the point in him being there just so we can shoe horn alonso or sissoko into the team.

i think the loss of alonso wont be a bad thing for the club, i think it would be a blessing in disguise

Rafael Benitez arrived at LFC June 2004.
Xabi Alonso signed for LFC August 2004.

Sabre joined newkit October 2004....

Coincidence?.... I think not.

by **ConnO'var** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:03 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
peewee wrote:listen guys, there really is no point discussing alonso, sabre will never admit to alonsos faults (and he does have them), i think alonso wont be here next season, but hey thats my opinion and i hope i am wrong, he is a decent player.

can we afford to do without him? well my answer to that is 'have we won the leauge with him?' so yes we can afford to do without him, i prefer to see mash in the starting line up with gerrard central, gerrard is not wide player, he isnt a winger so what the point in him being there just so we can shoe horn alonso or sissoko into the team.

i think the loss of alonso wont be a bad thing for the club, i think it would be a blessing in disguise

Rafael Benitez arrived at LFC June 2004.
Xabi Alonso signed for LFC August 2004.

Sabre joined newkit October 2004....

Coincidence?.... I think not.

But jokes aside......

Xabi has to be one of the most cultured central midfielders around at the moment in terms of talent..... But he hasn't been up to his high standards of the previous two seasons and IMO has not been the same player this season.....

With the players we currently have in central midfield we have an abundance of riches (Lucas notwithstanding of course as I have not seen him in action before..... but 8 million quid and a golden ball winner already does not sound to me that he's been bought for the future.... )

Stevie
Xabi
Mascherano
Momo
Lucas

with the exception of Momo, that's 4 class CMs on our books..... 4 into 2 doesn't quite add up.... and It would be tough to keep 4 world beaters happy if the roles are to be shared..... at most 3.....

as such, I can see us cashing in on one..... Masch and Lucas are new.... gerrard has just signed a new contract.... that leaves Xabi.....

Who knows, he may well be on the way out.... as much as it pains me to say it...

by **grayghost** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:16 pm

I like Alonso as much as the next red but why do we have so many central midfeilders you can not keep all them happy. SG will not go 1 more season on the wing it was a season wasted from a personal performance point off view for him he has not bean the same since he was shoved on to the right. Xabi will leave Liverpool for Barca come the transfer window and we will get Etoo. And stevi G will play in the centre with Masherino.

by **scouser 'til I die** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:25 pm

The charlton game sums up how much of a necessity he is in the squad, without him we have no shape, no co-ordination and no fluency. People who think we should sell alonso should :censored:

off

by **grayghost** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:36 pm

scouser 'til I die wrote:The charlton game sums up how much of a necessity he is in the squad, without him we have no shape, no co-ordination and no fluency. People who think we should sell alonso should off

Everyone has there own opinons mate

by **ConnO'var** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:44 pm

grayghost wrote:
scouser 'til I die wrote:The charlton game sums up how much of a necessity he is in the squad, without him we have no shape, no co-ordination and no fluency. People who think we should sell alonso should off

Everyone has there own opinons mate

Why bother replying, mate?

There'll always be those who're arrogant enough to think that only their opinions matter and resort to abuse if others disagree...

Just ignore him....

btw.... i disagree with you....

Selling xabi will set us back.... unless we get someone else to strengthen us in other areas in the pitch..... a part exchange for eto'o or messi would be nice wouldn't you say.....

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:57 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
peewee wrote:listen guys, there really is no point discussing alonso, sabre will never admit to alonsos faults (and he does have them), i think alonso wont be here next season, but hey thats my opinion and i hope i am wrong, he is a decent player.

can we afford to do without him? well my answer to that is 'have we won the leauge with him?' so yes we can afford to do without him, i prefer to see mash in the starting line up with gerrard central, gerrard is not wide player, he isnt a winger so what the point in him being there just so we can shoe horn alonso or sissoko into the team.

i think the loss of alonso wont be a bad thing for the club, i think it would be a blessing in disguise

Rafael Benitez arrived at LFC June 2004.
Xabi Alonso signed for LFC August 2004.

Sabre joined newkit October 2004....

Coincidence?.... I think not.

by **welsh wizzard** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:50 pm

I said it a long time ago!!

Alonso is a good player but he is over rated. Masch is a much better player has more quality and next season you will see the real masch! We all know that Having Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko, and now Mascherano, that all these players will not fit into two. This is why Alonso will move to Barcelona with cash in exchange for Etto.

Alonso has been well below par this season.

He is a good player but not a world class player.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue May 15, 2007 9:52 pm

Everyone hoping we swap Alonso for Eto'o should remember that there is absolutely no guarantee that Eto'o will be a success in England and/or for us. Morientes was, and still is, class in Spain but most of us were happy to see the back of him after 1.5 seasons of underachievement. Shevchenko has looked a shadow of his former self this season, just as Crespo had in previous years for Chelsea. We're talking world class strikers here who have failed to settle and find form in England. How utterly ridiculous would we look if Alonso was reminding us of his class at the Nou Camp while Eto'o was warming our bench? Be careful what you wish for.

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