Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:11 pm

Ade wrote:I think it was a smart tactical ploy by Rafa, and Mascherano proved him right by nullifying Lampard. Most of Chelsea's strength comes down the middle, and Masch is clearly a defensive midfielder of top quality. (Mikel's gonna be a monster too, by the looks of it.) They were reduced to humping long balls to Drogba, cos they couldn't get through.

I also think Rafa wanted to send a signal to Xabi - you've got to step it up mate.

Not sure what he'll do if it's Milan in the final, as although Maldini is at walking pace these days he is the master, so do you play pacey but slightly dopey Pennant wide right? If so, it's Gerrard and Masch in the middle for me, Masch to manmark Kaka. Alternative is to play Gerrard on the right flank and go for Maldini, and Xabi slightly forward of Masch, who can mark Kaka?.

If it's the Mancs, it's Gerrard right, to put the frighterners up Giggs and go at Evra, plus Xabi and Masch in the middle.

Happy headaches. Just hope those Manc zhite don't luck it tonight. Milan would be a cracking final

I suppose its a better option to discuss than should we play Cheyrou or Diao

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:14 pm

Ade wrote:
s@int wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:I havent read the other posts apart from the topic starters and just want to say it didnt surprise me that Xabi was left out last night, i actually predicted it after he played against Pompey.
It was the right decision as well and i will tell you why, Xabi has struggled all seasons in the higher tempo games, the likes of the derby Man United and Chelsea away, the reason being is that you dont get time on the ball.
He has looked like he is really struggling when someone is closing him down the second the ball reaches his feet. It takes away his passing game. Mascherano also struggled a little last night in similar circumstances with a few of hos passes under pressure going awry, but generally in posession he moves the ball quicker than Xabi.
Xabi still has a massive part to play at the club and imo will start the final no matter who we play due to the fact that we wont be 1-0 down from the start and needing to force the pace, so Stevie will more than likely be back on the right with Javier and Xabi in the middle.

Personally I think that if Pennant maintains ,or possibly improves his form, Xabi's place is more dependent on whether we play 1 or 2 up front. i.e.
2 up :-
Reina
Finnan Carra Agger Riise

Pennant Gerrard Masherano Kewell(hopefully )

Crouch Kuyt

1 UP

Reina
Finnan Carra Agger Riise

Pennant Alonso Masherano Kewell(hopefully )
Gerrard
Kuyt

That of course is dependent on Pennants form and Kewell's magical recovery!

Saint, do you really want Kewell playing in the final in 3 weeks time? He will not be match fit, and a half-fit Harry is like carrying a left-winger on a stretcher.

If he was fit, i'd love to see him there, but he won't be.

Not sure what the other lads would make of it either to see him 'arriving late' for the final.

Kewell to last first 20 mins, then throw on Zenden to do a Smicer, and finally bring Robbie on to score and get a good send off ! I'm getting sentimental in my old age

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:39 pm

I think Alonso has struggled with the virtual none-stop play over the last 2 years, and his not starting was more to do with fatigue than a drop in his value to the team, per-say.

Remember, up until the aquisition of Mascherano, there was not a single player who could sit infront of the defence and spray passes about all day, whilst avoiding the temptation to join in the attack. Hamann, as brilliant for us as he was, just could not do what Xabi has been doing for the past 3 years.

Mascherano can (although IMHO not to the same standard), so now Rafa is afforded the luxury of resting who I believe he sees as his protoge out on the field.

It is apparant to anyone with a set of eyes and a basic understanding of phyisical limitations, that Xabi was fooked from the word go this season, and despite this, he has still battled away, often criticised, but rarely poor.

I am sure you can ask any physician in the World, and they too will tell you that it is impossible to retain fitness and form when you are b*llocked to start with. It has an affect on everyone, but in varying degrees.

"Oh, but so and so has played more games, but he still performs to his best..." - This is a basic flaw in anyones argument.
Just because player A can do more than player B before fatigue kicks in, that doesn't mean it's player B's fault, or that they aren't fit enough.
Human beings have limitations, both physical aswell as mental. (Otherwise, we would all be able to fly, run at 1,000,000mph, calculate Infinity squared, and cure all diseases known to man.)

Riise - he's an example. He can run and run and run. But he can't hit pin-point balls 70 yards, can he? Not every time.
Fowler can finish better than anyone in the game today, but he can't outpace Theo Walcott.

Limitations affect every single thing on planet Earth.

Why should football players be any different?

I believe THAT is why Xabi hasn't been able to do the Hollywood stuff this season. But I'll tell you something for nothing - he's still the best player int he World at what he does, and I defy anyone to give a good arguement to the contrary.

The man is a magician. He will be back after a couple of months rest. :nod

by **Sabre** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:43 pm

Between his attributes I forgot to mention the tempo of the game. To decide when he has to send a long ball, or a short pass. When instead is better off to turn back and try something else. Look at him before receiving a pass, he has looked everywhere and when he gets the ball he knows where his team mates are.

At some point of this season, and not recently, he lacked that accuracy, and at the beginning of the season aswell.

Yes, sure he fails passes, so did Mascherano yesterday, and some were asking to haul him off (it's in the thread you can read it), some of them that created danger. But Mascha made so many and so good defensive helps, and so many good distributions, that his game was very good at the end. I'm of the school of thought that no matter what team you support, many fans of that team will see very good things about a player the first matches, then get tired of him.

It happened with Arbeloa. Some were very impressed at the beginning

Ace Ventura mentions he struggle in the high tempo games. I'd rephrase that. I think Alonso can struggle when he's severy marked as he hasn't dribling at all, and he's not pacy. But he'll turn back instead and put the ball to another close mate safely.

In those games, many people will say "He struggles", but IMHO when you mark a CM that heavily up in the pitch, you pay the bill later. In football, nothing is for free, and cancelling a player and making an effort for that (it has happened) also has a price.

Sorry to enter the discussion Ace Ventura mate

by **dawson99** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:43 pm

Rafa picked the best 11 for the game at hand. Masherano was class last night with his tackling and sorting things out.

If we get Milan it may well be alonso but you cant pick the starting 11 for the final ebfore we know who we are playing

by **Frat** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:44 pm

metalhead wrote:It really depends on who we play in the final! It depends on the tactics Rafa will do.

Maybe Rafa wants creativity in the line up, so he will include xabi alonso in there, or maybe (like always) he will play a cautious game by including mascherano.

I think if we meet AC Milan, He will definetly include Mascherano to close on Kaka!

mascherano don't have so much quality to stop kakà, I think Rafa will study the tactism a lot before take this decision..kakà's not at the same level of the last champions we have played

by **The Manhattan Project** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:21 am

Xabi's defining moment was when he kicked a ball from the Basque Country and it travelled across France, through the Channel Tunnel, up England's motorways, waited in traffic and tailbacks, stopped for a snack at a Happy Chef, then flew over the Anfield Road stand and landed in Newcastle's goal, giving us a victory.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:29 am

Now we know its Milan and Kaka we have to deal with, I am also wondering if Momo(fit and on form) might not be the best option to keep Kaka quiet. Great that we have such strength in midfield, just wish we had the same strength in depth up front.

by **Sabre** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:12 pm

Now that Gerrard's future is sealed in a new contract, one of the negotiations that concerns me more is the one of Xabi Alonso. Both because he's IMHO very good in his position and we should keep him, and because many rumours talk about the interest of clubs like Barcelona.

Any gossips about his future in the stadium those who go there? Does anybody of you fear that LFC might be tempted to sell him?

I know Rafa said that in some cases we'll have to wait after the final, but this one has me pretty concerned.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:32 pm

Sabre wrote:Now that Gerrard's future is sealed in a new contract, one of the negotiations that concerns me more is the one of Xabi Alonso. Both because he's IMHO very good in his position and we should keep him, and because many rumours talk about the interest of clubs like Barcelona.

Any gossips about his future in the stadium those who go there? Does anybody of you fear that LFC might be tempted to sell him?

I know Rafa said that in some cases we'll have to wait after the final, but this one has me pretty concerned.

no they wont sell alonso, you dont sell your best players.
in the local press its reported that along with gerrard and carragher alonso is the other big name benitez wants gillett and hicks to tie down to long contracts.
i think rafa will play xavi in centre mid in the final and play gerrard on the right.
united suffered because fletcher, carrick and surprisingly scholes couldnt string 3 decent passes together in midfield and its allright winning the ball but if you are going to give it back to the opposition straightaway it sort of defeats its purpose.
i think rafa will want as many `big time` players on the pitch as he can get and players with experience of pressure situations.
to be fair to the likes of zenden in the high pressure atmosphere of last tuesday you could see he`d played in world cup semi`s and champions league semi`s before.

by **Sabre** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:46 pm

Cheers for that report, it makes more calm.

Xabi is ambitious, but he's a clever lad too. He's in a great club, and if like the press say, he has the total confidence of Rafa to be important in the future, he'll stay in LFC many years as he has said in the 3 idioms he masters that he's bloody happy up there -- and even to me in a pub of the old part of San Sebastian

Players take this (the trust the manager have on them) a lot into consideration to stay in clubs. Good news that indeed.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:10 am

I heard today the first rumour that Xabi is off

I hope to god its not true, but supposedly a deal involving a Spanish striker(Eto'o, Torres or Villa ?) and Xabi has already been agreed in principle. The fact that Xabi was one of the few first team regulars to play against both Fulham and Portsmouth only increases my concerns. We should not be selling or part exchanging our best players.

Hopefully its all cr@p and once Xabi sees the size of the contract on offer he snatches Parry's hand off and signs for another 5 years.

This rumour is probably as reliable as one of Welsh Wizards by the way

by **112-1077774096** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:28 am

if he goes he goes, we do have strengh in midfield and as good as alonso can be when hes on form he should be allowed to go if he chooses to.

like i have mentioned before something is not quite right with alonso at the moment, i can see this with his attitude on the pitch and the fact that rafa has basically dropped him.

the fact you mention that a deal is already done saint, well its an idea that i have had myself that a deal has already been brokered for alonso and if we can get a quality forward in the deal then lets take it, we need a finisher and a creator

by **Sabre** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:15 am

like i have mentioned before something is not quite right with alonso at the moment, i can see this with his attitude on the pitch and the fact that rafa has basically dropped him.

Are you on a wind up? Joking? or quite simply spouting shíte?

You can see by TV that his attitude in the pitch is not quite correct? And you say Rafa has dropped him?

The next thing you're gonna say is that you're gonna buy LFC to deal with everything is wrong? :laugh:

Go to the real world, this is a serious section of the forum, FFS.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:23 am

and you can see his attitude is right from tv can you?

this is serious chat sabre, dont spoil it by reopening petty arguments

Liverpool FC Forum

Xabi alonso - Defining moment?

Who is online