Liverpool FC Forum

5 stars wrote:I thought I'd post this here...

If you look at the results comparison now and this time last season, is not as bad as it looks at first glance.  We have played the four hardest away fixtures already, unfortunately we have not been able to take any points home.

You look at the start to the previous season, we played both Manchester United and Chelsea.  The difference being we played them at home.  We only managed to get a draw against this Manchester United, and received a embarrassing defeat against Chelsea.  When we did play to return fixture we lost on both occasions, and only managed one point out six in the meetings with them. 

So if this season we can beat both of them at home we would take away five more points than it did last season, considering we are only four points behind atm what we were this time last year, it makes for interesting reading.

10 out of 10 for effort mate 

Rafa-Dodd wrote:I resisted so far as to post in this thread, as it may lose me some friends - but we have got to stop this Rafa bashing right now.

  Yes we have not performed at all this season, we have not had that stand out performance and our lack of goals is worrying. Gerrard doesn't look right, same with Carra for me as well. He is half the player he was last year and he needs to start reading the game better. Gonzo been average along with Pennant and Alonso has been shocking in some games. Even Pepe has been a shadow of himself from last year. But don't you think Rafa knows this?

   I am absolutely gutted at how are season is going, I had high hopes after the last two years but it seems we are fighting a losing battle this year for the league and in all honesty I would take 4th now. However for people to criticise Rafa and suggest he should go is bordering on insanity. I have seen people, suggest he is "tactically inept", "losing the plot" and "turning into Houllier". These are typical knee jerk reactions of a modern day fan. They expect results straight away and if they dont get them, they turn against the team and the manager.

Some of you are sounding ridiculous:

1) To suggest we sell Alonso is absurd. He is quality, he is in very poor form but to sell one of our best players and passers of the ball is downright stupid.

2) Gerrard is not bigger than the club. Someone actually commented that Rafa should go because he is playing Gerrard out of position. However good Stevie G is, he plays where the manager sees fit. If I was Rafa I would play him in the middle with Momo, but as I dont have a european cup and f.a cup winners medal - I will leave that decision to the manager.


  We have been poor, I admit it but the suggestions that Rafa should go are absurd and I am ashamed they are coming from a fellow red. Liverpools motto is "You'll Never Walk Alone" and we should stick by the team through thick and thin.

We never publically criticise our own, Shanks instilled that and Rafa is following the script. He knows whats wrong and he is trying to fix it. Rafa brought us our 5th European Cup and our best ever Premiership performance last year. We were so consistent last year and we were confident going into every game. I know people in todays game cannot live on past glories but this fella saved a sinking ship and the lack of respect for him in this thread is shocking.

  We're Liverpool Football Club, yes, we struggling but it should be all hands on deck trying to get the team out of this mess, not condemning the man and players as failures because they stuggling to get their groove back.

TOP POST. I couldn't agree more

Rafa-Dodd wrote:I resisted so far as to post in this thread, as it may lose me some friends - but we have got to stop this Rafa bashing right now.

  Yes we have not performed at all this season, we have not had that stand out performance and our lack of goals is worrying. Gerrard doesn't look right, same with Carra for me as well. He is half the player he was last year and he needs to start reading the game better. Gonzo been average along with Pennant and Alonso has been shocking in some games. Even Pepe has been a shadow of himself from last year. But don't you think Rafa knows this?

   I am absolutely gutted at how are season is going, I had high hopes after the last two years but it seems we are fighting a losing battle this year for the league and in all honesty I would take 4th now. However for people to criticise Rafa and suggest he should go is bordering on insanity. I have seen people, suggest he is "tactically inept", "losing the plot" and "turning into Houllier". These are typical knee jerk reactions of a modern day fan. They expect results straight away and if they dont get them, they turn against the team and the manager.

Some of you are sounding ridiculous:

1) To suggest we sell Alonso is absurd. He is quality, he is in very poor form but to sell one of our best players and passers of the ball is downright stupid.

2) Gerrard is not bigger than the club. Someone actually commented that Rafa should go because he is playing Gerrard out of position. However good Stevie G is, he plays where the manager sees fit. If I was Rafa I would play him in the middle with Momo, but as I dont have a european cup and f.a cup winners medal - I will leave that decision to the manager.


  We have been poor, I admit it but the suggestions that Rafa should go are absurd and I am ashamed they are coming from a fellow red. Liverpools motto is "You'll Never Walk Alone" and we should stick by the team through thick and thin.

We never publically criticise our own, Shanks instilled that and Rafa is following the script. He knows whats wrong and he is trying to fix it. Rafa brought us our 5th European Cup and our best ever Premiership performance last year. We were so consistent last year and we were confident going into every game. I know people in todays game cannot live on past glories but this fella saved a sinking ship and the lack of respect for him in this thread is shocking.

  We're Liverpool Football Club, yes, we struggling but it should be all hands on deck trying to get the team out of this mess, not condemning the man and players as failures because they stuggling to get their groove back.

  a fine post rafa-dodd.

I agree completely, I posted in this thread early on, and cant believe what I'm reading regarding rafa/alonso out (I think it was just the hobo and ConnO'var who were saying that though)

I do believe however that excessive and unneccesary rotation is harming our performances - i'm not one of these that jumps on the bandwagon claiming 'rotation is the cause of all our problems, stop rotating and we will win every game'. blah blah blah. 

I do believe that it affects peoples sub-conscious, when they can do everything they possibly can, and then get dropped for the next big game  - ala crouch. A magnificent scoring run at the start of the season, confidence at an all-time high and he has more starts on the bench than he does on the pitch. He seams third choice - even when kuyt/bellamy is not fit.

Switching gerrards starting position has not made him play badly - there are clearly other things on his mind, or a simple lack of confidence on the pitch - he is missing that hard-tackle that we know and love and there is another thread devoted to it - but i digress... the rotation of his position, imo, doesn't help, he played 4 different positions in 6 games at one point and i think the constant changing unsettled him. - but that is not the cause of our captains loss of form - it just hasn't helped.

I dont think we have any easy games coming up to help - because no games are easy when you're struggling for confidence and form, but hard work, detirmination and grind will see us get a couple of wins under our belt and then we will be back.

YNWA

lou93 wrote:I want to see gerrard in the middle an see alonso out wide give that a chance. it might work

I think Alonso's eyes would be like those in your avatar if he played out wide.     

ConnO'var wrote:

Redman in wales wrote:

Rafa-Dodd wrote:I resisted so far as to post in this thread, as it may lose me some friends - but we have got to stop this Rafa bashing right now.

  Yes we have not performed at all this season, we have not had that stand out performance and our lack of goals is worrying. Gerrard doesn't look right, same with Carra for me as well. He is half the player he was last year and he needs to start reading the game better. Gonzo been average along with Pennant and Alonso has been shocking in some games. Even Pepe has been a shadow of himself from last year. But don't you think Rafa knows this?

   I am absolutely gutted at how are season is going, I had high hopes after the last two years but it seems we are fighting a losing battle this year for the league and in all honesty I would take 4th now. However for people to criticise Rafa and suggest he should go is bordering on insanity. I have seen people, suggest he is "tactically inept", "losing the plot" and "turning into Houllier". These are typical knee jerk reactions of a modern day fan. They expect results straight away and if they dont get them, they turn against the team and the manager.

Some of you are sounding ridiculous:

1) To suggest we sell Alonso is absurd. He is quality, he is in very poor form but to sell one of our best players and passers of the ball is downright stupid.

2) Gerrard is not bigger than the club. Someone actually commented that Rafa should go because he is playing Gerrard out of position. However good Stevie G is, he plays where the manager sees fit. If I was Rafa I would play him in the middle with Momo, but as I dont have a european cup and f.a cup winners medal - I will leave that decision to the manager.


  We have been poor, I admit it but the suggestions that Rafa should go are absurd and I am ashamed they are coming from a fellow red. Liverpools motto is "You'll Never Walk Alone" and we should stick by the team through thick and thin.

We never publically criticise our own, Shanks instilled that and Rafa is following the script. He knows whats wrong and he is trying to fix it. Rafa brought us our 5th European Cup and our best ever Premiership performance last year. We were so consistent last year and we were confident going into every game. I know people in todays game cannot live on past glories but this fella saved a sinking ship and the lack of respect for him in this thread is shocking.

  We're Liverpool Football Club, yes, we struggling but it should be all hands on deck trying to get the team out of this mess, not condemning the man and players as failures because they stuggling to get their groove back.

  a fine post rafa-dodd.

I agree completely, I posted in this thread early on, and cant believe what I'm reading regarding rafa/alonso out (I think it was just the hobo and ConnO'var who were saying that though)

I do believe however that excessive and unneccesary rotation is harming our performances - i'm not one of these that jumps on the bandwagon claiming 'rotation is the cause of all our problems, stop rotating and we will win every game'. blah blah blah. 

I do believe that it affects peoples sub-conscious, when they can do everything they possibly can, and then get dropped for the next big game  - ala crouch. A magnificent scoring run at the start of the season, confidence at an all-time high and he has more starts on the bench than he does on the pitch. He seams third choice - even when kuyt/bellamy is not fit.

Switching gerrards starting position has not made him play badly - there are clearly other things on his mind, or a simple lack of confidence on the pitch - he is missing that hard-tackle that we know and love and there is another thread devoted to it - but i digress... the rotation of his position, imo, doesn't help, he played 4 different positions in 6 games at one point and i think the constant changing unsettled him. - but that is not the cause of our captains loss of form - it just hasn't helped.

I dont think we have any easy games coming up to help - because no games are easy when you're struggling for confidence and form, but hard work, detirmination and grind will see us get a couple of wins under our belt and then we will be back.

YNWA

I stand by what I said earlier mate....

I don't think he's as tactically savvy as we 1st thought he was..... Rafa has failed to comprehend that passion and heart plays an important role in winning the premiership.... it's not all about chess..... the players are more than just pieces designed to perform specific moves.....

I hate to say it but Fergie got it right yesterday with Fletcher.... the guy's a mongrel with no real footballing gifts, but he IS blessed with a big heart and he outmuscled and irritated our midfield on his own and generally made a nuisance of himself and left our engine room totally out of rhythm and bereft of ideas.....

And this is not the 1st time it has happenned to us this season.... Sheffield Utd and Everton did exactly the same thing with good results and yet Rafa has apparently learnt little from these two disasterous excursions....

He is also persisting with Little Luis from the start when his discipline is questionable in a hard grafting game.... The boy is best used comming off the bench.. you have to ask why is Rafa doing that when we have Crouch who's been in goal scoring form and is likely to cause Vidic and Ferdinand problems.... Even Fowler, who is apparently off-form and out of favour, would have done better than Luis.

I have no issues with Alonso in central midfield and frankly calls for his head are bang out of order.... He is our most cultured midfielder by far..... Rafa has to find a way to get him, Momo and Gerrard in the centre of the park at the same time in a 4-5-1 or 5-3-2...... Else, if he persists with a 4-4-2, Momo needs to come off the bench.....

Personally I'd go for a 5-3-2 as I don't rate Pennant on the right.... Finnan and either Aurelio or Riise as the Wingbacks should do for the moment.... after all Finnan was a former RM.....

The way we are and have been playing is a downright disgrace.... no fluidity in attack.... just humping up long balls and hoping for a scorcher from distance ..... whatever happened to the passing game for which we were once revered around Europe?? Our strikers are not scoring simply because we don't feed them with enuff chances.... they are being bypassed all the time..... and this is not a new phenomenon... we've had strikers of the calibre of Morientes, Cisse (ok... maybe not cisse...  ) , and Kuyt who were scoring for fun in other teams, play for us and end up on barren spells..... This cannot be a coincidence but to me points directly at the tactics we are currently employing.... Like most everyone who watched Kuyt on his debut, I was bleeding excited at the prospect of him wreaking havoc in opposition defences in future games.... But look at how he's doing now.... feeding of scraps and looking like the shadow of the player I thought he would be.... For Christ sakes, our top scorer last year was a right midfielder.... and most of his strikes were from distance.... what ever happened to our threat in front of goal???

Can this be all be down to the players themselves?? No heart??
I don't think so..... good players do not become average overnight.....

We need to take a long look at our tactics and start to understand why other teams no longer fear us and know that they can bully us in the middle of the park..... We no longer have an enforcer the likes of Souey, McMahon et al to "steel us up" so to speak..... and do not possess the passing game that can make lesser opponents shiver in their boots.....

Everyone now knows that if they get one goal ahead then they are in with a shout for 3 points as we don't have the weapons to come back aside from Gerrard (who's looking like a pale shadow of himself at the mo) and possibly Riise from distance.....

Look at the other big 3 clubs. Every team outside of the top 8 will expect to lose to them because...

1. Arsenal plays with a grace and fluidity that is a joy to behold and b!tch to play against.
2. Man Utd is as gritty as ever and their direct approach down the wings and pace in attack still make them a potent force.
3. Chelsea will stifle everyone else and ground out results due to the quality of their players.

What has happenned to us? Or rather who has happened to us? And what do we do about it?





MY ANSWER:
Rafa and his tactics happened to us.

SOLUTION?
Maybe it's time for a change...

NiftyNeil wrote:Something does appear wrong at the moment, and to be honest , I was thinking this morning before reading this thread - Has Rafa lost the dressing room?
We have the players, we have the ability but not the application - that normally points to one thing.
If Rafa has lost the dressing room, we'd have to look at the reasons why. Gerrard being played out wide on the left and right? Subsequently Gerrard's influences over the rest of the team? Constant rotation (a player plays well then gets dropped)?

Having given it some serious thought though, it would be ludicrous to think that Rafa really has lost the dressing room. Players don't lose confidence in their manager overnight, especially after two silver lined seasons.

I do think there is something wrong with Gerrard at the moment though. What it is, I can only speculate. Gerrard is the jewel in our crown, and if the jewel isn't shining, then the crown looks cheap and tacky. Rafa needs to sort this out pronto! If Gerrard's got a problem with Rafa, then it needs settling, otherwise Stevie must go. If he's got marriage problems, then he needs to start leaving his problems at home.

And finally, credit where credit's due - you've got to respect what Alex Ferguson has done at Man Utd. I was thinking that he was beginning to lose the plot over the last couple of years, but last season he dumped two of United's best ever players in Keane and Van Nistelrooy. That has paid dividends since, and you've got to applaud someone with balls that big.

Thehobo wrote:i personally want xavi alonso sold

real madrid will pay 10 million for him, then get in a midfielder who isnt one dimensional (possibly nolan, possibly joey barton)

sissoko is good as a holding role type midfielder

alonso cant tackle so isnt a holding role mid, and cant make dynamic off the ball runs as good centre mids need to

if you watch alonso he barely moves all game. the lad was good when he first came over cause his passing was a breath of fresh air, but he hasnt improved since then and has become a very static one trick pony (and his trick is bad at the moment)