Liverpool FC Forum

[Bad Bob]

I agree completely with your last paragraph Badbob especially as the alternative is Zenden rather than Hamann.

I wont argue my other points again(seems a bit pointless )

As for point 3 which I failed to explain properly. The point I was trying to make is.... for England he received good service and played well and was M.O.M., for Liverpool due to Alonso's poor form he hasnt. Although as you rightly say Gerrard receives the ball from other sources than Alonso, I would argue that its the great passes from Alonso that have tended to free Gerrard in the past,rather than the passes from Finnan, when they usually try to work the ball more.

Gerrard has only played in the centre on a couple of occasions at most, so its hardly fair to blame him for Alonso's poor form!

Bigmicks posts, I agree with completely. I was just trying to defend Gerrard to some extent, rather than pushing for positional changes or the dropping of Alonso.

I know you're not one for dropping Alonso, mate, so I'm not really debating with you per se--more like using your post to make somes points about Alonso. 

In fact, we're both right: both have been below their best, both have had an influence on the other's form--although neither is responsible for the other's drop in form--and both need to get back to their best ASAP if we are to improve.

Like Big Mick, I like the way we played last year with Sissoko and Alonso in the middle and Gerrard on the right.  Persisting with that approach only makes sense, though, if all three are playing in the way they were last year.  Clearly they're not.  Moving Stevie back inside is a possible solution for the short term because, at the end of the day, he has the ability to be our best and most influential player as long as he's fully involved in the game (and not isolated out wide).  If this happens, though, Sissoko is the player that must give way, to allow Gerrard to pair Alonso in the midfield.  In addition, Stevie must be reminded that a central midfielder's job description includes tracking back and tackling (as Ace Ventura has said in another thread).  I guess we'll see what happens come Saturday.

[account deleted by request]

Its worrying when we are having to spend our time trying to defend two of our best players. I preferred it when the only players under pressure were Morientes and Cisse!

[davo_LFC]

Am with taff on the rotation lark. I think all the top managers who have big squads do it, maybe not to the extent of rafa but i think people are using it as a scapegoat at the moment, i know that it isnt the best of ideas when hes chopping and changing 4+ positions and tinkering with the core of the team but i think he will nip that in the bud soon.

My suspicion is that he was only doing it because of injuries and world cup hang overs, the boys had one tough pre season and that might have had an affect aswell, hopefully we will feel the benefits towards the business end of the season.

I think we will see a settled team shortly with the main spine of the team and 1 or 2 positions rotated regularly, last season it was similar, the team wasnt settled at the beginning of last season but then he settled with the spine positions of the team and rotated around them and we went on a pure run. No one complained about rotation then, all the 100 unchanged teams is well over hyped.

On SPN it said today that the likes of wenger have named only 1 or 0 unchanged teams in the last 12+ games so others do it aswell.

Watch, shortly we will have a settled team and we will start winning games again. Rafa's not thick, and hes certainly not tactically inept as some people have mentioned, he knows what hes doing and he will deliver.

Am not gonna lie and say everythings rosey coz its not but i have complete faith in rafa and the team, i like everyone else have been really disappointed with recent performances (thought we were unlucky in some games e.g. chavski) and its totally not good enough especially performances like the one against the mancs, that was hurtful, but we can bounce back and tw@t the likes of them later in the season.

The players need to have more pride in the shirt and try ALOT harder and i think they will.

[Scottbot]

That said, if there was to be a re-think by Rafa (which I don't think there will be, at least not on this one) then why is everybody talking of Gerrard OR Alonso? I agree with Bamaga in the sense that if you are going to play him in the centre you would definately play him with Alonso. Alonso is a natural holding midfielder and Gerrard is a natural impact midfielder so there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that they couldn't play together.

On paper Gerrard and Alonso in the middle sounds like the dream ticket but i think their partnership has a long way to go. They played poorly together in the last home game to Blackburn. It wasn't that Gerrard was getting stranded up the pitch leaving Alonso overmatched as was highlighted earlier in the thread. There seemed to be a lack of understanding between the two of them with both players seeemingly trying to play the same role. I spent the whole game thinking how much we were missing Sissoko in the middle. I know it was only one game and they haven't played central in a 4-4-2 that often. Can anyone think of any/many games where they have played well as a central-two over the last couple of seasons?

[Rush Job]

if Alves does come in January where does that leave stevie     its no secret Rafa prefers Xabi and Momo in the middle.          if he wasn`t so versatile it wouldn`t be an isue, the fact is he can win a game single handed from a number of possitions like all world class players.

[66-1112520797]

Conversely, Gerrard has contributed to Alonso's poor form when they've played together in the centre because--as you have noted yourself, mate--Stevie's not been as all-action as in the past.  The Galatasaray game was a great example, with Gerrard often stranded upfield when the Turks countered, leaving Alonso alone to plug the massive gaps in CM.  In fact, Rafa was forced to bring Sissoko on late to shore up the central midfield which should not be necessary if Stevie is fulfilling all of his obligations as a central midfielder

Thats one game you've highlited where you lay blame on Gerrard for not doing his job and tracking back, fair enough. I think people have got to stop looking at Gerrard and Alonso, neither of them (possibly apart from the one game you noted) effect eachothers form. Its soley down to the individual how he performs, you cant blame Alonsos form if he's being left exposed. Obviously though you cant blame Gerrards presence in midfield for Alonsos wayward passes neither, thats where Alonso hasnt been at his best and thats not Gerrards fault. But I'm not advocating Alonso be dropped because like you the "subtle" challenges he makes, the off the ball work that seemingly goes unoticed by most is a vital element to the midfield.
What I am saying though is Gerrard should be paired with Alonso in the middle, if Rafa were to give Stevie the strict instructions before games to track back like he used to the pair would complement eachother perfectly, and IMO Gerrard would find his form quicker and have more impact on matches when driving the team from the middle.

[account deleted by request]

Conversely, Gerrard has contributed to Alonso's poor form when they've played together in the centre because--as you have noted yourself, mate--Stevie's not been as all-action as in the past.  The Galatasaray game was a great example, with Gerrard often stranded upfield when the Turks countered, leaving Alonso alone to plug the massive gaps in CM.  In fact, Rafa was forced to bring Sissoko on late to shore up the central midfield which should not be necessary if Stevie is fulfilling all of his obligations as a central midfielder

Thats one game you've highlited where you lay blame on Gerrard for not doing his job and tracking back, fair enough. I think people have got to stop looking at Gerrard and Alonso, neither of them (possibly apart from the one game you noted) effect eachothers form. Its soley down to the individual how he performs, you cant blame Alonsos form if he's being left exposed. Obviously though you cant blame Gerrards presence in midfield for Alonsos wayward passes neither, thats where Alonso hasnt been at his best and thats not Gerrards fault. But I'm not advocating Alonso be dropped because like you the "subtle" challenges he makes, the off the ball work that seemingly goes unoticed by most is a vital element to the midfield.
What I am saying though is Gerrard should be paired with Alonso in the middle, if Rafa were to give Stevie the strict instructions before games to track back like he used to the pair would complement eachother perfectly, and IMO Gerrard would find his form quicker and have more impact on matches when driving the team from the middle.

I think Rafa started to lose faith in Gerrard and Alonso as a regular central midfield pairing during the CL winning run. Due to injuries and suspensions they only played once together after Christmas before the final that season, due to Alonso's broken ankle and the cheap booking against Chelsea. Before Christmas Gerrard also missed  games as he had a broken foot etc.

Then came the final and our midfield was over run by Milan until Hamann came on. The next season(last) Gerrard gets moved out to the right.