Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:35 am

Since the start of the season Rafa has choosen this 4-5-1 formation that seems to be getting everybody down, every forum, newspaper you read most fans are crying out for the good old fashioned 4-4-2.
The first game of the season against Boro we should have played 4-4-2 we had a lot of games under our belt by then, we where fitter than them and should have picked up the full 3 points, but Rafa was being cautious cause of the results from last season and a lot of fans and Rafa are saying, well its better than last season Ill settle for a point.

Where has this settle for a point come from?
Its 2 points lost, against Boro, Spurs, Brum.
Why is it people think this is ok? When its clearly not.
We are Liverpool F.C. we are the Champions of Europe the last time I checked England was part of Europe is it not?
So whats the problem?

If we suffer a defeat the same old excuses come out, Oh it was bad refereeing decitions, oh we had injuries, or it was just plain old bad luck.
I think its neither of these 3 this season, I think its the negative tactics that the team are playing.
We all know Rafa loved this 4-5-1 formation at Valencia, but Garcia is not Aimar, Riise or Zenden are not Vincente, so why play a system with the wrong personell.

The strengths of the players we have should dictate the system we play not the other way around.

Firstly he said in one interview that this is not his team yet by which I assume he meant that he hasn’t as yet brought in all the players he needs, which begs the question that if he doesn’t feel we have the right players to play the system then why are we playing it?

This is not a Rafa slag fest, but he is not immune to a little critism when things arnt working out, if last sunday was not a wake up call to rafa/ Paco and the players then I dont know what is its time to change the formation and go with 4-4-2 but I fear these tactics will NOT be changed and Rafa will wait till January till he buys these wingers to fit into this system.
He seems like a stubborn bugger when he wants to be and wont admit when he is wrong and swallow his pride for the sake of the side, I cant see him giving Cisse a run of games either when we clearly need goals. I also expect Morientes to start against Blackburn, I just hope he is not upfront on his own 3 points needed please in every game from now till January, we have nearly everyone back from injury and we can match any outfit in the prem on our day.
Time to start winning guys.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:56 am

lynds i agree with you 100% on this, its a shame though that some people will say you not loyal or some other complete bollox.

these things need to be said, all is not well

by **66-1120597113** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:30 am

peewee wrote:lynds i agree with you 100% on this, its a shame though that some people will say you not loyal or some other complete bollox.

these things need to be said, all is not well

Fu.ck up needleknob :buttrock

by **teamleader1** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:40 am

I think that Rafa will stick to his guns and persist with the lone striker-
Rafa needs to get the whole team use to the system and hopefully come jan we will get the players he needs to make it work
I think in his mind he believes that its better to recruit new players into the new system if its been in place for a little while
Its a system that everyone has to master not just the forward line, so maybe a little hurt now will pay off big time in the new year?
Dont forget our slant on one up front is totally different from Rafas- he sees the 5-1 constantly switching to 3-3 and it worked for him before and provided great football
Hes building up to this and I think we must be patient
dont forget if we had chelseas cash we would have the players in place now
Its frustrating for us all but in the long run we could all be grateful to Rafa for his bull headedness

by **66-1120597113** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:46 am

teamleader1 wrote:I think that Rafa will stick to his guns and persist with the lone striker-
Rafa needs to get the whole team use to the system and hopefully come jan we will get the players he needs to make it work
I think in his mind he believes that its better to recruit new players into the new system if its been in place for a little while
Its a system that everyone has to master not just the forward line, so maybe a little hurt now will pay off big time in the new year?
Dont forget our slant on one up front is totally different from Rafas- he sees the 5-1 constantly switching to 3-3 and it worked for him before and provided great football
Hes building up to this and I think we must be patient
dont forget if we had chelseas cash we would have the players in place now
Its frustrating for us all but in the long run we could all be grateful to Rafa for his bull headedness

i think a lot butt im pizzd and need bed :pirate

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:01 am

Well Im glad you started this thread,I bet you dont get any whinging ,critising idiots moaning about this thread.

I agree that he is a stubborn bloke and he may need to tinker with the formation if results dont start going our way . There is no point at all in playing this way unless we are picking up points to go with it,at the moment we are not but im sure eveyone we tell us it needs to take time to bed this formation down,which it does ,but not with the current crop of players we have.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:14 am

Also people keep saying but at Valencia this that and the other, we are not Valencia this is England your not aloud to play football against some teams in the prem, who kick the bollox out of you or park a bus infront of goal.
Rafa won the La Liga twice with a very classy Valencia side our team are not Valencia that team was full with class players.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:16 am

Bamaga man wrote:Well Im glad you started this thread,I bet you dont get any whinging ,critising idiots moaning about this thread.

You will be wrong mate, Ill get slated to death for it, but it has to be said

by **andy_g** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:44 am

i know what you're saying lynds and i agree with your points but i reckon the truth is pretty much what teamleader said. i really don't see benitez changing his style of playing or his choice of formations and if the reason for this is that he wants the team to get used to the system so the new players can slot in then it makes a lot of sense.

the question is whether we'll get these new players or not. benitez must be a demon poker player because at the moment its like going all in on a pair of threes, if it comes off it'll be amazing but if another couple of threes don't come along you're in deep shit.

but i'm still a long way off the 'in rafa we trust' brigade, at least as far as the premiership is concerned. and its ridiculous that so often this board is like the old soviet union where you question the leader and you're an enemy of the state. to earn my trust benitez has to do some clever dealing in the january window and make this system work.

by **teamleader1** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:27 am

andy_g wrote:i know what you're saying lynds and i agree with your points but i reckon the truth is pretty much what teamleader said. i really don't see benitez changing his style of playing or his choice of formations and if the reason for this is that he wants the team to get used to the system so the new players can slot in then it makes a lot of sense.

the question is whether we'll get these new players or not. benitez must be a demon poker player because at the moment its like going all in on a pair of threes, if it comes off it'll be amazing but if another couple of threes don't come along you're in deep shit.

I agree its a gamble Andy and if Im honest I would like to see 2 up front every game

But if gonzalos gets his work permit and kewell rises from the ashes plus if the other jan targets come off- Rafa is obviously privy to this type of inside information
weve only lost one and if we do pick up a few wins then confidence will grow in the new system
I agree with a lot of the points made and am certainly far from happy with the lack of points, but only time will tell if the gamble will pay off m8

IMHO

by **davo_LFC** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:43 am

i think rafa will start playing 4-4-2 against the likes of blackburn,i think he was just using the 4-5-1 in difficult games like against chelski and manusa. wether he will play cisse am not too sure but he will get his chance before jan

by **teamleader1** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:08 pm

davo_LFC wrote:i think rafa will start playing 4-4-2 against the likes of blackburn,i think he was just using the 4-5-1 in difficult games like against chelski and manusa. wether he will play cisse am not too sure but he will get his chance before jan

I agree to a point Davo
but I think he will start most games 4-5-1 and hope to slip into
4-3-3 at every given opportunity- obviously the 5-1 will hold firm against the stronger teams for much longer periods with the 3-3 coming to the fore as we get a strangle hold on the game
against the weaker sides it should hopefully yield many goalscoring opportunities
This is my slant on how Rafa sees the future

by **davo_LFC** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:48 pm

yeah i think when he gets the 2 wingers he will most probably play the 4-5-1/4-3-3 but until then i think he might start using 4-4-2 against the lesser team coz we currently dont have the players to suit the system he wants to use

by **BOODIDDY** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:55 pm

ciggy is spot on with her statments. When houllier won the treble everyone said he had this magical plan and was then given too much of a free reign. He was as stubborn as they came and wouldn't change his philosophy. He went and rafa has come in and done a wonderful first season in europe and not bad in prem considering squad depth. But, i believe that his success from last year is hindering peoples vision on his prem knowledge. We need to change the system and fast because otherwise charlton, spurs bolton will be too far away for us to catch in jan and imo im not sure whether things will change in jan because we all know that teams hike prices up they dont want to lose players mid season and the likes of simao and joaquin maybe dont want to move countries with only 6 months left to a world cup that could be very important.

So, the players might not arrive or not be the ones we want and ultimately not good enough. So rafa needs to change the system and fast. Garcia (one of my faves) is a euro player but in the prem we must go 442 and put cisse up with crouch and get kewell gerrard alonso momo in midfield and i believe that gerrard is gonna have to go right sided to help us out just now.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:09 pm

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:Also people keep saying but at Valencia this that and the other, we are not Valencia this is England your not aloud to play football against some teams in the prem, who kick the bollox out of you or park a bus infront of goal.

Couldn't have put it better myself....

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:Another thing since Crouch has come into the team, is it my imagination or are we playing an awful lot of long balls just cause he's tall, cant see Crouch getting over 10 goals this season if Im honest, what is puzzelling we let a striker go for doing more Baros.

i also can't believe we let baros go for a :censored:

like crouch..... All those morons who said he scored 15 goals for southampton and all...i guess they are happy now.

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