Will rafa remain stubborn till january?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby woof woof ! » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:44 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Firstly  I was under the considered opinion that Rafa was given 5 years to produce a team capable of playing  progressive winning football ,and not a honeymoon period that consists  of just one season  and a handful of games .
It was only a matter of time when the  whiners couldn’t refrain from biting their tongues  any longer and poured their scorn  in Rafa’s  direction .

Hold up Beergoggles, no one is whining or pouring scorn in Rafa's direction . I have merely pointed out that in my opinion domestically Rafa's performance has been like the team ,very average . Why does that make me a whiner ? and why should I bite my tongue ? You seem more put out that I have said something negative about Rafa rather than trying to refute the gist of my observation which once again for the record is ,domestically Rafa's performance ,like the team has been very average. I'm not expecting overnight success , I am however expecting a team that looks as though it's capable of scoring goals and winning a game .
Perhaps you think the team is playing well and living up to your expectations ? fair enough ,we all set our own standards .
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Postby A.B. » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:05 pm

Benitez will stick with the 4-5-1 formation unless something drastic happens. Gerrard is injured but he can still use the 4-5-1 formation.

We've used the 4-4-2 formation on two occasions in the season thus far. The first time was against CSKA Sofia at Anfield, which was the game we ended up losing.

The second time was in the first-half against Tottenham, and in that first-half we did feck all. It wasn't until the second-half in where we converted back to the 4-5-1 that we started playing better and created chances/opportunities to score.
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Postby parchpea » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:22 pm

Rafas gospel is the 4-5-1 and its how he made his name. This formation gave him great success at Valencia, and he was able to build a team around it in Spain and conquer the mighty teams against the odds. Whether this tactic will work here is ofcourse another matter. For sure he will give it a go, and who can blame him on the back of his feats in La Liga. Right now his tried and tested idea is looking kinda flaky. Hes banking on Crouch being the new Carew and Garcia the makeshift Aimar. It just aint happening. I guess he will persist a while because hes set his stall out and gambled on this formation. I thought we sold our best forward in Baros. Infact he may have worked well off Crouch as he does with Koeller for the Czech. But he cashed him in, which surprised me. Right now Rafas gameplan looks like its teetering on the edge of failure. The question presently is will he persist and be stubborn, or hold his hands up in failure and send out a new look Liverpool. Only he knows that  :glare:
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Postby andy_g » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:24 pm

davo_LFC wrote:any1 get saturdays echo,that contains everything you need to know about rafas ambitions. just have faith,he needs time to deliver the goods coz he inherited a :censored: poor squad and there is no quick fix,infact rafa winning the CL was before schedule so imagine what he can do when he has his own complete squad :D

what is all this crap about benitez inheriting a *insert favourite expletive here* poor squad. it seems to be another of the unthinking mantras that crops up in any discussion about the manager. the poor squad consisted of gerrard, carragher, riise, dudek, hamman, finnan, hyppia, cisse etc etc - in fact the core of the team that went out and beat ac milan to win the european cup. a squad of which a large number had won domestic honours as well as done reasonably well in europe and numbering many established internationals. not the greatest squad in world football it has to be said, but a poor squad? never.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:03 am

andy_g wrote:
davo_LFC wrote:any1 get saturdays echo,that contains everything you need to know about rafas ambitions. just have faith,he needs time to deliver the goods coz he inherited a :censored: poor squad and there is no quick fix,infact rafa winning the CL was before schedule so imagine what he can do when he has his own complete squad :D

what is all this crap about benitez inheriting a *insert favourite expletive here* poor squad. it seems to be another of the unthinking mantras that crops up in any discussion about the manager. the poor squad consisted of gerrard, carragher, riise, dudek, hamman, finnan, hyppia, cisse etc etc - in fact the core of the team that went out and beat ac milan to win the european cup. a squad of which a large number had won domestic honours as well as done reasonably well in europe and numbering many established internationals. not the greatest squad in world football it has to be said, but a poor squad? never.

He said squad, not starting 11. You can have the best starting 11 in the world and win feck all once injuries get a grip. Thats where your squad comes in.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:07 am

Whats all this b*llocks about Baros!?! Not too long ago the general consensus was that Milan was a steaming pile of horse-sh*t, with the team play of a weasel and the finishing ability of a hamster. He didn't score in the final 4 months of last season, and only started banging goals in pre-season so he could get a better pay-packet at his new club. He's a gutless w*nker, and the fact he's gone should be a point of rejoyce for us all.
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Postby A.B. » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:24 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Whats all this b*llocks about Baros!?! Not too long ago the general consensus was that Milan was a steaming pile of horse-sh*t, with the team play of a weasel and the finishing ability of a hamster. He didn't score in the final 4 months of last season, and only started banging goals in pre-season so he could get a better pay-packet at his new club. He's a gutless w*nker, and the fact he's gone should be a point of rejoyce for us all.

Nail on head. Right to the point and a little bit of emotion thrown into it.  :D
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Postby Ciggy » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:50 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Whats all this b*llocks about Baros!?! Not too long ago the general consensus was that Milan was a steaming pile of horse-sh*t, with the team play of a weasel and the finishing ability of a hamster. He didn't score in the final 4 months of last season, and only started banging goals in pre-season so he could get a better pay-packet at his new club. He's a gutless w*nker, and the fact he's gone should be a point of rejoyce for us all.

I never slated Baros and I didnt want him to leave either, I think we really miss him, watching him the other night against Holland he was MOTM his work rate is 110%.
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Postby andy_g » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:55 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
andy_g wrote:
davo_LFC wrote:any1 get saturdays echo,that contains everything you need to know about rafas ambitions. just have faith,he needs time to deliver the goods coz he inherited a :censored: poor squad and there is no quick fix,infact rafa winning the CL was before schedule so imagine what he can do when he has his own complete squad :D

what is all this crap about benitez inheriting a *insert favourite expletive here* poor squad. it seems to be another of the unthinking mantras that crops up in any discussion about the manager. the poor squad consisted of gerrard, carragher, riise, dudek, hamman, finnan, hyppia, cisse etc etc - in fact the core of the team that went out and beat ac milan to win the european cup. a squad of which a large number had won domestic honours as well as done reasonably well in europe and numbering many established internationals. not the greatest squad in world football it has to be said, but a poor squad? never.

He said squad, not starting 11. You can have the best starting 11 in the world and win feck all once injuries get a grip. Thats where your squad comes in.

well thankyou very much for the clarification lando but i know he said squad. i still don't agree that that squad can be called 'poor'. certainly not as strong as we'd like or as strong as our rivals, but definitely not poor.
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Postby Judge » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:01 am

perhaps we shouldda taken shinawatra's and morgans money when we had chance. Then buying folk wouldnt be a problem. we couldda bought real quality for good money
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Postby bigmick » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:10 am

I'm broadly with woof on this one. I don't think he is suggesting for a second that we should start a "sack Rafa" petition, but equally as he says, it would be folly to pretend that we are setting the World alight in the Prem. This is not a show of disloyalty to point it out, it is a demonstration of common sense. Indeed it would be a bizarre world if, on a Liverpool discussion forum, you were unable to discuss how well Liverpool are playing for fear of being branded a knee-jerker.
Like most on here I'd play 4-4-2. It doesn't mean the manager will do it, nor does it mean he's a bad manager for sticking to his guns. Equally however, it doesn't make me a knee-jerker for having an opinion.
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:51 pm

Benitez will stick with the formation and rightly so IMO, obvioulsly it's not quite working at the moment but with time and few new additions it will come right eventually if you ask me. It will do no good what so ever to chop and change the formation, we should keep working on the current one until we have got it right and ironed out our flaws.

Its just like the zonal marking problem this time last year, nearly everyone was slating Benitez for using the system saying it would never work in England, and at first it wasnt working with the team conceding several goals from set pieces but the manager stuck with it until the team learnt the system properly and look at the defence now. How many goals do we concede from set pieces these days? do you hear about Liverpools use of zonal marking now? the same outcome will happen with the formation IMO, in a few months time when the team is settled and has kept working on the managers ideas and where playing great football you wont hear a peep from anyone.
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Postby davo_LFC » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:28 pm

andy_g wrote:
davo_LFC wrote:any1 get saturdays echo,that contains everything you need to know about rafas ambitions. just have faith,he needs time to deliver the goods coz he inherited a :censored: poor squad and there is no quick fix,infact rafa winning the CL was before schedule so imagine what he can do when he has his own complete squad :D

what is all this crap about benitez inheriting a *insert favourite expletive here* poor squad. it seems to be another of the unthinking mantras that crops up in any discussion about the manager. the poor squad consisted of gerrard, carragher, riise, dudek, hamman, finnan, hyppia, cisse etc etc - in fact the core of the team that went out and beat ac milan to win the european cup. a squad of which a large number had won domestic honours as well as done reasonably well in europe and numbering many established internationals. not the greatest squad in world football it has to be said, but a poor squad? never.

the squad benitez inherited was incapable of doing fu.ck all in the prem apart from come 4th. players like diao,cheyrou etc just arnt good enough and rafa has practically had to say fu.ck it and rebuild and he needs time and money to do that so IMO i dont think its fair that benitez gets moaned at for having to get the best out of shocking players like djimi traore and co. the squad was pi.ss poor and rafa has done immensely well to improve it so far with quality like sissoko,and ship out the no hopers like diao. the squad is still lacking in depth in certain areas like defence where if carra gets injured we could be well and truly fu.cked. I think that when benitez continues to bring in the quality players we will be challenging again  :buttrock
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:04 pm

This place is beyond a joke.

Compare the results to the ones against the same sides last season.

6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES6 FUCKING GAMES

The mans just won us the europian cup, improved the results against sides this time round and yet some people are still nit picking and having a go.

He's stubborn? Damn :censored: right he should be aswell. Get a grip for christs sake.
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:06 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:Benitez will stick with the formation and rightly so IMO, obvioulsly it's not quite working at the moment but with time and few new additions it will come right eventually if you ask me. It will do no good what so ever to chop and change the formation, we should keep working on the current one until we have got it right and ironed out our flaws.

Its just like the zonal marking problem this time last year, nearly everyone was slating Benitez for using the system saying it would never work in England, and at first it wasnt working with the team conceding several goals from set pieces but the manager stuck with it until the team learnt the system properly and look at the defence now. How many goals do we concede from set pieces these days? do you hear about Liverpools use of zonal marking now? the same outcome will happen with the formation IMO, in a few months time when the team is settled and has kept working on the managers ideas and where playing great football you wont hear a peep from anyone.

Well :censored: said.

Absoloutely 100%. The :censored: on here at times is beyond a joke.
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