Liverpool FC Forum

by **iscah** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:04 am

This has been bugging me for at least the last 3 years. The amount of games that Liverpool dominate in terms of creating goalscoring chances and yet do not win.

This season that includes losses to Arsenal, Man Disunited, Chelsea, Southampton, Portsmouth, Bolton (League Cup). I think in fact every loss this season we have had equal or more scoring shots than the oppostion. Even last night it was 20 chances to 8 and just a draw against Everton.

During our bad run last year where I think we went about 8-10 games without a win, all but one of them we had significantly more goal scoring chances than the oppostion. And I think from memory it was on average about 8 more chances per game, but NO wins.

Luck does not even out, that is an old wives tale. But the style of football that sees us create all these chances and basically outplay the opposition up to the point of putting the chances away is obviously (on paper) working. This is probably the one thing that keeps Houllier believing he will get it right.

The question then is why do we not pick up the extra 20 points a season our creation of chances has earned ? The clear answer is we do not put the chances away, and they are from a very general observation, as clear cut chances as any team. When you see the chances we miss, the saves made and the near misses from inside the penalty area they are very very good chances. Basically our finishing is not good enough.

Owen is NOT a natural goalscorer. He has loads of talent, pace, athleticism and generally a good football brain. But he is no Ian Rush at sniffing goals. Heskey is not a good converter(and is always exhausted when he gets the ball), Kewell has lost confidence, Gerard is average at best in finishing. Milan Baros is not far away but not there yet. Maybe it is lack of confidence that has engulfed the club over the last 3 years.

No one can say we do not create the chances. If you look at the statistical summaries of ALL those games mentioned we did have more chances than our opponents, and lost them all.

Where do you go from here ? Do you continue that style and get better finishers ? or do you chuck out the whole lot and start again ??

Steven O'Neil
Perth, Australia

by **azriahmad** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:23 am

Steven, I think it is a combination of a lack of confidence, poor technique and the general style of play which has placed too much of a burden on Owen to score, Kewell to produce some 'magic' or excitement that has taken a toll on Owen's composure when shooting at goal and also generally poor finishing of the so-called attacking players. In short, Liverpool's finishing is cr#p and certainly not good enough if we were to dream of winning the league or Europe.
Even the so-called dominant games Liverpool plays these days is typlified by dominance in passing without making much penetrative play - we just dominate possesion and passing but there is a distinct lack of threatening moves in the final one third of the pitch. Normally we play hopeful long balls for the like of Owen to chase and he is expected to score bucket loads. This is the typical one-dimensioned playing style with the opposition being able to counter by haevily marking Owen. Imagine what kind of pressure Owen is under to single handedly score from poor service he is receiving that he now even misses simple chances that he would have been able to tuck away with ease a couple of seasons ago.
What do we need? Perhaps a fresh approach from a manager who knows how to get more from the players and who is more adept tactically. That man is not Houllier.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:38 am

yes.... our attacking play is not potent enough.

1)There does not seem to be much shots from long range.
2)Horrondous crossing...... Our corners and crossing from open play are just not good enough this season.
3)Over-reliance on owen - I think it is better to sell Owen for 30 million pounds rather than keep him. If he loses his pace (due to injury), he would be half the striker he is now.

by **Owzat** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:06 am

iscah wrote:Owen is NOT a natural goalscorer. He has loads of talent, pace, athleticism and generally a good football brain.

I disagree completely, all strikers go through bad spells but if you've seen some of the goals he has scored for England then you probably wouldn't have typed that.

by **iscah** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:20 pm

That is my point though, we have created far more goalscoring opportunities that the opposition in each of these losses. If we did not create these then I could understand the criticism of non penetrative play.

For example

Opponent Score Goal attempts (Liverpool v opposition)
Southampton 1-2 18-8
Bolton (cup) 2-3 17-7
Man Utd 1-2 10-6
Portsmouth 0-1 14-11
Arsenal 1-2 13-12
Chelsea 1-2 13-10

(could not find spurs report but think chances were equal)

And last year the run on about 8-10 matches in a row where we did not win was even worse. Average was about 8 chances a game more including 22-0 against Sunderland in a 0-0 draw.

If the chances were generally 25 yard shots all the time then I would say well we don't get good chances. But I would say the chances we get are no more or less than any other side, just they convert a higher percentage.

So I disagree a bit with the point that we do not create enough. There can always be criticism when we do not seem to score, but maybe if it was broken down a bit more the answer is not necessarily in the lead up play (although accepted there is valid criticism in part of that). I think it is important to think about why those chances consistently go begging. Is it confidence, lack of talent, pressure from the home crowd ?

Steve
Perth, WA

by **iscah** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:26 pm

Hi Owzat

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Owen is not a good player. In fact I don't think he is that out of form. Just he does not score a high percentage of goals from the chances he gets. He is no Ian Rush/Aldridge (but then he is not as bad as Andy Cole at missing chances). He needs a natural finisher to play alongside him, I think Baros could develop into that. Owen seems to score a lot of very good goals (as does Kewell) just not enough bread and butter ones to win a championship.

Give him the right partner and he will be another 20% better.

Steven O'Neil
Perth, WA

by **Starbridge42** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:30 pm

iscah wrote:Owen is NOT a natural goalscorer. He has loads of talent, pace, athleticism and generally a good football brain. But he is no Ian Rush at sniffing goals.

Welcome to the boards Steven, its good to see another Aussie face around.

The comment above I don't agree with though, Owen is a wonderful striker, perhaps he is more of a Kluivert than a Mackaay (read Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Raul, Schvenko etc.) but he is still a wonderful goalscorer who simply has to much pressure put on him to produce a bit of magic every time he has the ball. Thats impossible. The longer that pressure is on him the more it will wear down at all of his game. Have someone take the pressure off him and he will show he's the classiest in the Premiere League.

by **iscah** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:39 pm

hi Starbridge, tks for welcome.

I agree with you maybe I am being harsh on Owen. He is not a natural though at goalscoring, or at least in the role of a bloke who is going to put away 1 in 3 chances. He might put away 1 in 5 chances instead and maybe create a few extra that other players could not (if that makes sense).

Who is the partner then that he needs ? Do you think Baros has it in him to develop a complementary game to Owen ??

Steve
Perth, WA

by **Scottbot** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:53 pm

If Owen isn't a natural goal-scorer then who is? Over the course of a season i doubt there is a striker in the league who puts away 1 in 3 chances. Not RVN and not Henry who see far more clear cut chances over a season compared to Mikey who feeds on relative scraps (for Liverpool and often for England) Put Michael in the current Arsenal team and he would be absolutely frightening. I'm not sure that Baros will be the perfect partner for Owen. Tis very early to say as they have played together sparingly. Personally i feel that Mikey would benefit from playing with someone with pace who plays right across the front-line working both flanks and dropping deep. Baros is quick, technically excellent, has the courage to take people on and a player of some potential (did anybody see the fantastic goal he scored for the chechs the week before his injury?) Lets hope he gits fit and stays fit.

by **Starbridge42** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:02 pm

I would love to see Tristan partner Owen, maybe we could get him on loan.

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