Liverpool FC Forum

[dawson99]

Does anybody think we will finish above Spurs next season? Regardless of who's fault it will be, beachballs, hits on the woodwork, dodgy refs, Gerrard not playing as well every game as he did against West Ham in the cup final a few seasons back, fecking Parry/Purslow , the owners, the pitches etc etc etc etc. Putting all of that aside for a second, will we finish above Spurs next season with Rafa still as the manager?

If the answer is NO, is that it then, that's all we can expect from now on? If it's YES, how come, could you explain it to me?

I think with Rafa in charge, we will finish 6th next season.

The CL does funny things to a team, some teams fold massively under the pressure. I'm not saying Spurs will or won't, but until we see what happens over the summer it'd be foolish to say what chance we have of finishing where

[bigmick]

Well I wouldn't be putting money on it Daws, but that's my guess as of now. I think they'll perish at the group stages of the Champions League much like we did, which ought to help their league effort a bit.

[baldricks_cunning_plan]

Does anybody think we will finish above Spurs next season? Regardless of who's fault it will be, beachballs, hits on the woodwork, dodgy refs, Gerrard not playing as well every game as he did against West Ham in the cup final a few seasons back, fecking Parry/Purslow , the owners, the pitches etc etc etc etc. Putting all of that aside for a second, will we finish above Spurs next season with Rafa still as the manager?

If the answer is NO, is that it then, that's all we can expect from now on? If it's YES, how come, could you explain it to me?

I think with Rafa in charge, we will finish 6th next season.

Yes we will finish above Spurs next season, and the other 18 sides in the League as well.

The reason why we'll finish above Spurs is because we had a dreadful season this year, with the exception of Reina, our star players didn't turn up. Spurs, by all accounts, had a great season yet still finished only 7 points ahead of a side who were awful. Mainly due to the fact that we gave up on fourth once we got past Lille in the Europa League and our attention went on to that competition.

Spurs, like City and Villa are full of pretty average to good players with very few, if any world stars. Modric probably the only one who comes close to being world class.

They got lucky that we had our worst season in the past decade. Next season, when we return to some sort of form we'll be cruising above sides like Tottenham. They're not a great side.

If they get into the European Cup proper, which I have my doubts about, then they'll be quickly joining us in the Europa League at best. They certainly won't qualify out of their group.

Without a doubt Liverpool Football Club will regain it's place in the top four next season. And we'll regain it by lifting the Premiership title.

[The Good Yank]

Does anybody think we will finish above Spurs next season? Regardless of who's fault it will be, beachballs, hits on the woodwork, dodgy refs, Gerrard not playing as well every game as he did against West Ham in the cup final a few seasons back, fecking Parry/Purslow , the owners, the pitches etc etc etc etc. Putting all of that aside for a second, will we finish above Spurs next season with Rafa still as the manager?

If the answer is NO, is that it then, that's all we can expect from now on? If it's YES, how come, could you explain it to me?

I think with Rafa in charge, we will finish 6th next season.

Yes we will finish above Spurs next season, and the other 18 sides in the League as well.

The reason why we'll finish above Spurs is because we had a dreadful season this year, with the exception of Reina, our star players didn't turn up. Spurs, by all accounts, had a great season yet still finished only 7 points ahead of a side who were awful. Mainly due to the fact that we gave up on fourth once we got past Lille in the Europa League and our attention went on to that competition.

Spurs, like City and Villa are full of pretty average to good players with very few, if any world stars. Modric probably the only one who comes close to being world class.

They got lucky that we had our worst season in the past decade. Next season, when we return to some sort of form we'll be cruising above sides like Tottenham. They're not a great side.

If they get into the European Cup proper, which I have my doubts about, then they'll be quickly joining us in the Europa League at best. They certainly won't qualify out of their group.

Without a doubt Liverpool Football Club will regain it's place in the top four next season. And we'll regain it by lifting the Premiership title.

This post is brought to you from the Land of Sunshine and Lollipops.

[LFC2007]

Spurs and Man City have a great opportunity to cement themselves as seasonal top four contenders next season. It threatened to happen in the past when we were displaced by Everton and when Spurs and Villa nearly displaced Arsenal, but last season was the most decisive displacement yet. In the state we're in we are obviously the most vulnerable but even Arsenal - who may yet lose Fabregas - can't take their place in the top four for granted (although they do have the knack it seems, just like the Manc's do in challenging for titles).  City and Spurs have the squads, the spending capacity and the manager(s) - not sure about Mancini yet, Redknapp I am though - to permanently break the stranglehold of the top four. At the same time I can't shake off the feeling that with expectations as low as they are and with a few decent signings, we might just make something of next season, somehow.

[Sir Roger]

Does anybody think we will finish above Spurs next season? Regardless of who's fault it will be, beachballs, hits on the woodwork, dodgy refs, Gerrard not playing as well every game as he did against West Ham in the cup final a few seasons back, fecking Parry/Purslow , the owners, the pitches etc etc etc etc. Putting all of that aside for a second, will we finish above Spurs next season with Rafa still as the manager?

If the answer is NO, is that it then, that's all we can expect from now on? If it's YES, how come, could you explain it to me?

I think with Rafa in charge, we will finish 6th next season.

Yes we will finish above Spurs next season, and the other 18 sides in the League as well.

The reason why we'll finish above Spurs is because we had a dreadful season this year, with the exception of Reina, our star players didn't turn up. Spurs, by all accounts, had a great season yet still finished only 7 points ahead of a side who were awful. Mainly due to the fact that we gave up on fourth once we got past Lille in the Europa League and our attention went on to that competition.

Spurs, like City and Villa are full of pretty average to good players with very few, if any world stars. Modric probably the only one who comes close to being world class.

They got lucky that we had our worst season in the past decade. Next season, when we return to some sort of form we'll be cruising above sides like Tottenham. They're not a great side.

If they get into the European Cup proper, which I have my doubts about, then they'll be quickly joining us in the Europa League at best. They certainly won't qualify out of their group.

Without a doubt Liverpool Football Club will regain it's place in the top four next season. And we'll regain it by lifting the Premiership title.

This post is brought to you from the Land of Sunshine and Lollipops.

I can sing a rainbow!

[eds]

Im not really arsed about spend to be honest. If a players good hes worth it.
Im more interested in the manner which we portray ourselves and how others perceive us. This is dependant on many subtle and not so subtle things such as the style of play and our players attitude throughout the season. Not scientific, but real nonetheless. This has been the worse thing about the season for me. Our utter, impotent uselessness and embarrassing displays against sh'ite.
If the man who didnt inspire us this time doesnt inspire us next time what will happen then?

Spot on. We need to focus on portraying ourselves better in order to be better perceived by others 

We were once seen as invincible. We won many games before the kick off because of the perception that the opposition had of us. We werent a laughing stock and didnt wash our dirty linen in public. We certainly didnt have a manager who enjoys playing games in front of the media. We were mighty and proud. I would like a return to that type of mentality, philosophy and ethos.
What happened last season took us further away than ever and I hope that something happens which puts us back on course to the type of portrayal we used to have

That was over 20 years ago. Start accepting that football has changed, and look forward instead. We have fallen far behind the top clubs thinking we could live on our glorious past.

I know it was over 20 years ago. I was there
I accept that football has changed and I am looking forward. But what I see doesnt inspire me. I see owners who only care about squeezing whatever they can from us and various officers they have appointed who are spinning and going missing in equal measures. I see a manager who has overseen the worst capitulation in my years of watching LFC, blaming everything and everyone except himself. I have seen outstanding, ordinary and cr'ap players wearing the red jersey as if it was a practice top from JJB. I see fans arguing constantly about whether or not you are anti-club if you even dare to question, never mind criticise those who make the decisions that have brought about this situation.
I admit that at one time I did live on our glorious past. I make no excuses for that. To be a liverpudlian in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, was to be touched by the Gods and I Fu*king milked it for all it was worth. Then in the decline of the 90s, I was still there telling anyone who would listen that we need to be careful not to think it was our divine right to win everything. I was there when we won the treble of cups, behind the goal in Cardiff where Owen squeezed it past "safe hands" and believed that we "might" be heading to the top again. Not because of our past but because we had a bright future with great young players and a style of play based on attacking football.
Then came the Rafa years, starting with a miracle and ended up a living nightmare.
I was, am, and always will be a red, no matter whos in charge or what division we are in and I do not believe we will return to the way we were. Those days are gone forever.
But, I believe we can start looking at the past to help us in the future. Rafa and his team would do well to watch some tapes of the glory days of the "Red Machine" for inspiration and guidance of what it takes to become mighty.
Purple nose did, and look where it got him

Amen.

Quite simply one of the best posts I have EVER read on this forum. I take my hat off to you Sir Roger.

[Penguins]

I have said it before and I'll say it again.

We'll struggle to finish 4th with Rafa or with a replacement manager that is realistically available.

Like it matters if Spurs are going to buy players we'd like if we'd be in the CL.  We would not be able to buy them anyway, CL or no CL.

I don't buy into the **** that just cause I saw Barnes, Rush, Beardsley, Daglish win all those title, I demand us to win no matter what the circumstances are.
In the 70's and 80's we broke transfer records, had order in the board room, cheques were signed and there was real investments in the team to allow the managers to manage.
The reality today is totally different and there is a limit as to how much you can punch above your weight, which I believe we have these past few years.

These past 20 years we have been the perfect example of how not to run a football club and loose the enormous advantage we once had. And no change of a manger here or there after 20 years will make night to day.

[Sir Roger]

Im not really arsed about spend to be honest. If a players good hes worth it.
Im more interested in the manner which we portray ourselves and how others perceive us. This is dependant on many subtle and not so subtle things such as the style of play and our players attitude throughout the season. Not scientific, but real nonetheless. This has been the worse thing about the season for me. Our utter, impotent uselessness and embarrassing displays against sh'ite.
If the man who didnt inspire us this time doesnt inspire us next time what will happen then?

Spot on. We need to focus on portraying ourselves better in order to be better perceived by others 

We were once seen as invincible. We won many games before the kick off because of the perception that the opposition had of us. We werent a laughing stock and didnt wash our dirty linen in public. We certainly didnt have a manager who enjoys playing games in front of the media. We were mighty and proud. I would like a return to that type of mentality, philosophy and ethos.
What happened last season took us further away than ever and I hope that something happens which puts us back on course to the type of portrayal we used to have

That was over 20 years ago. Start accepting that football has changed, and look forward instead. We have fallen far behind the top clubs thinking we could live on our glorious past.

I know it was over 20 years ago. I was there
I accept that football has changed and I am looking forward. But what I see doesnt inspire me. I see owners who only care about squeezing whatever they can from us and various officers they have appointed who are spinning and going missing in equal measures. I see a manager who has overseen the worst capitulation in my years of watching LFC, blaming everything and everyone except himself. I have seen outstanding, ordinary and cr'ap players wearing the red jersey as if it was a practice top from JJB. I see fans arguing constantly about whether or not you are anti-club if you even dare to question, never mind criticise those who make the decisions that have brought about this situation.
I admit that at one time I did live on our glorious past. I make no excuses for that. To be a liverpudlian in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, was to be touched by the Gods and I Fu*king milked it for all it was worth. Then in the decline of the 90s, I was still there telling anyone who would listen that we need to be careful not to think it was our divine right to win everything. I was there when we won the treble of cups, behind the goal in Cardiff where Owen squeezed it past "safe hands" and believed that we "might" be heading to the top again. Not because of our past but because we had a bright future with great young players and a style of play based on attacking football.
Then came the Rafa years, starting with a miracle and ended up a living nightmare.
I was, am, and always will be a red, no matter whos in charge or what division we are in and I do not believe we will return to the way we were. Those days are gone forever.
But, I believe we can start looking at the past to help us in the future. Rafa and his team would do well to watch some tapes of the glory days of the "Red Machine" for inspiration and guidance of what it takes to become mighty.
Purple nose did, and look where it got him

Amen.

Quite simply one of the best posts I have EVER read on this forum. I take my hat off to you Sir Roger.

Cheers

What makes things even worse is that we seem to have developed a "top four" mentality, as if that was sufficient enough for a successful season. The excuse makers have taken over, giving us numerous reasons why we cant win anything. They have a point because besides the miracle in Turkey and the desperate Gerrard final what have we got to show?
I dont want to undervalue what Rafas achieved but he could have done much more. That is the saddest thing for me. We could have won the Premier League with the players hes had, especially the season before last. But he sees things his way and thats why Im confident that he will leave without ever winning the PL.
I dont dislike Rafa. I wish with all my heart he could see where hes fu'cked up and change so that he can bring the success we crave. Sadly, as Ive said before, he is what he is and the mixture of his reluctance to accept responsibilty added to the "top four is good enough" philosophy will ensure that we cannot progress and regain what we once thought of as ours.

[Scottbot]

Spurs getting 4th ahead of City was Definitely the best outcome for LFC. City would have gone crazy (even by their standards) in the transfer market this summer. I also think we would have seen them play with real freedom next season if they'd made it into the Champ League, at least this way the pressure will be on Mancini to get them there, and pressure (before a ball has even been kicked) can work it's way into the entire squad. I actually think Spurs will go ok in the Champions league just so long as they don't get stitched up in the qualifier. I reckon they will prioritise it somewhat, and I suspect their league form will suffer no matter who they bring in.

As for Redknapp, I read a few posts where posters were belittling his ability and achievements and i've got no idea why. The guy has a good record where ever he has been (except my home town Southampton!) and his teams play exciting, attractive football. He's a quality manager in my opinion.

[eds]

I have said it before and I'll say it again.

We'll struggle to finish 4th with Rafa or with a replacement manager that is realistically available.

Like it matters if Spurs are going to buy players we'd like if we'd be in the CL.  We would not be able to buy them anyway, CL or no CL.

I don't buy into the **** that just cause I saw Barnes, Rush, Beardsley, Daglish win all those title, I demand us to win no matter what the circumstances are.
In the 70's and 80's we broke transfer records, had order in the board room, cheques were signed and there was real investments in the team to allow the managers to manage.
The reality today is totally different and there is a limit as to how much you can punch above your weight, which I believe we have these past few years.

These past 20 years we have been the perfect example of how not to run a football club and loose the enormous advantage we once had. And no change of a manger here or there after 20 years will make night to day.

If we actually had decent owners who actually gave a s.hi.t about our club and our standing, rather then two greedy  cowboy fu.ck.s who were only interested in the smell of greenbacks, then yes, changing the manager would also make a BIG difference.

Rafa is too stubborn to change his ways after so many seasons at the helm, giving him more money won't make him a better manager.

[mart]

Does anybody think we will finish above Spurs next season? Regardless of who's fault it will be, beachballs, hits on the woodwork, dodgy refs, Gerrard not playing as well every game as he did against West Ham in the cup final a few seasons back, fecking Parry/Purslow , the owners, the pitches etc etc etc etc. Putting all of that aside for a second, will we finish above Spurs next season with Rafa still as the manager?

If the answer is NO, is that it then, that's all we can expect from now on? If it's YES, how come, could you explain it to me?

I think with Rafa in charge, we will finish 6th next season.

Regardless of who is manager i think we will struggle next season if the clubs future is as uncertain as it is now. I really dont care if its rafa or some other manager taking over. The rafa debate takes far too much space here. We just have to hope the club is sold very quickly, and hopefully this time to owners that wants to invest in the club. The new owners will decide our future as a club. Until then i just hope we keep our head above water.

[83-1275364913]

Thing that upsets me is these arabs right always buy up these crappy clubs with no history and now pulling power in drawing in top players.If those manc arabs was to to buy our club right you have every top player in europe wanting to come here.We could take over the world once agian but no the stupid have to go buy a club that the highest earner before they bought em was the f***ing tea lady.

[Owzat]

Does anybody think we will finish above Spurs next season? Regardless of who's fault it will be, beachballs, hits on the woodwork, dodgy refs, Gerrard not playing as well every game as he did against West Ham in the cup final a few seasons back, fecking Parry/Purslow , the owners, the pitches etc etc etc etc. Putting all of that aside for a second, will we finish above Spurs next season with Rafa still as the manager?

If the answer is NO, is that it then, that's all we can expect from now on? If it's YES, how come, could you explain it to me?

I think with Rafa in charge, we will finish 6th next season.

Regardless of who is manager i think we will struggle next season if the clubs future is as uncertain as it is now. I really dont care if its rafa or some other manager taking over. The rafa debate takes far too much space here. We just have to hope the club is sold very quickly, and hopefully this time to owners that wants to invest in the club. The new owners will decide our future as a club. Until then i just hope we keep our head above water.

Too many people are hoping for the unlikelier of two events, blaming the owners for things that are not really in their control - RESULTS.

Sure they haven't given Rafa £200m to spend, but why is there the expectation they should have when no previous owner has? But the bottom line is Rafa has spent the money poorly and not produced results. You can't blame spending, to our normal level of £40m a summer, for results like the home draws against Brum and Fulham, away defeats at pompey, Wigan or Sunderland, or the limp away draws at Wolves and Hull, albeit the season was over by the Hull game.

THOSE are what cost us fourth, poor results against opposition we should be beating and not the owners or lack of funds.

So those who don't simply bury their heads in the sand and say it isn't Rafa's fault, lay the blame at the owner's door as a convenient scapegoat, there is the issue of how the manager is doing based on resources - not good enough. Sure the owners are responsible for the financial state of the club, but Rafa "not having enough money" is ridiculous because there has never been any figure by which to judge what they should be giving him. Noone said new owners have to give Rafa £75m a summer, there is no figure so assertions he is somehow short changed in the transfer budget are nonsense based on empty word promises from one of the two numpties.

What is a realistic hope is that a manager who can do better than Rafa could come in, more likely than this fantasy world change of ownership some are pinning all their hopes on. It is quite clear they want more money than anyone is willing to offer, they have a choice of cutting their losses or sticking it out and hoping the situation doesn't end up out of their control in which case we could be fecked.

But let's highlight Rafa's part in this. I won't call him clueless, but last season didn't exactly show his supposed tactical shrewdness. He wasted his budget on a RB and CM, not dwelling on that too long he also managed the aforementioned poor results which cost us fourth, and we were poor. Sure we lost Torres, another convenient way of taking blame away from Rafa, but it is Rafa's fault we are dependant on Torres (and Gerrard) so much because he chose to spend £20m on a CM instead of a striker, or £17.5m on a RB instead of a striker. He chose to play two DMs most of the season. He decides that anything before the 66th minute is "too early" to change things and even then his changes are routine and if not predictable then laughable come criminal.

You could point at 08/09 and say "look, we finished 2nd", but that was in no small part thanks to a fair bit of luck like the mancs had this season. They had og to thank for a lot of goals, we had a fair few late winners early 08/09 and some of those thanks to the number of red cards our opposition saw which was similar in number to the mancs' og count. We played well at times in 08/09, but when we were top it was not that convincing, ground out results with help from the refs and late winners. If you want the truth, our luck couldn't last and it didn't. We could have done with luck this season, but if luck is what is needed to make even fourth then it doesn't say much about the manager.

And those reckoning we would struggle to get a decent manager. Poppycock. It is always a line trotted out by those with no imagination. Sure WE couldn't predict who might come in, but no contract is sacred and how often do you see managers plucked from a club like Valencia that you didn't think would be our next manager? It isn't just a question of getting our absolute first choice, it is a question of is Rafa able to finish fourth next season or EVER deliver a league title. To me he might finish top four next season, he won't win the league because he has too many failings, in the transfer market and tactically. He isn't attacking enough, his signings are overpriced and trying to fit them into his formation so it works often makes them lesser players and every 'solution' just seems to bring more problems. Like with our full-backs, Johnson is more attacking and now our defence looks terrible because neither full-back can defend with no obvious attacking gain. We now have no Alonso so Rafa buys a £20m injured sub CM and plays Lucas next to Mascherano instead which makes for even less creativity. So in theory Johnson and Aquilani might be the same or better than Arbeloa and Alonso, but in truth they aren't yet we got no change from that switch (£37.5m cost to buy, £30m + whatever Arbeloa cost in sales which wasn't more than £7.5m)

We'll see which change comes first, manager or owner, but owners tend to have longer lifespans than managers. And you only have to look at St James Park to see what happens when fans get a hate on for the owner and wish him away, they're still wishing.

Rafa should really have resigned over last season's disaster. To not land the title is excusable, but to not finish fourth regardless of verbal guarantees is not. Seventh is not good enough, but he's not going to resign because he is deluded enough to think he's doing a good job and has all the excuses Mick quotes - and of course walking away would cost him £££££. Sometimes a love for a club can make someone stick at a job when they're failing, sadly the timing of his new contract may mean he stays because it costs a lot to get shot. But make no mistake, our situation is much worse thanks to Rafa and could be even worse next season if we finish fifth or below which is all too possible. Rafa won't suddenly get a pot of gold and his spending won't be any less wasteful than the past two seasons, so blame the owners all you like but Rafa is doing his share of the digging of our club's grave

[83-1275364913]

End of day when I look at liverpool playing nowa days it just ain't liverpool , If its the owners , manager or players it matters not they just need to sort it out.In fact It wouldn't do us much harm atm to get have a complete refresh of the whole team bar 4-5 players.

Say keep Carra , Gerrard , Torres , Riena , Glen and get rid of rest start fresh with new owners and new manager I be happy then.