Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:21 pm

Get real mate, he didn't try to injure him. I'm sure as a fellow pro he is genuinely gutted that Xabi is injured. It's the tightrope that all professional footballers walk. They maybe on stupendous money but one mistimed challenge or awkward fall and the career could be over.
Lets face it, we're not talking a young Roy Keanne or Souness here, its Frank Lampard. He's hardly up there with the destructive midfield players. If we're not careful the whole thing descends into the ridiculous what with Riley being paid by Abrhamovic, Lampard deliberately injuring Alonso etc etc. It's a game of football and we were bang unlucky but theres no need to be daft about it.

by **77-1099054247** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:25 pm

Lampard is not that type of player to want to injure someone on purpose...

by **the great one** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:39 am

anfieldadorer wrote:Cheap winning by Chelsh1t!

Mourinho's instruction to their players prior to the match:
1. Make their playmaker injured, mainly Alonso. no worries about the fine, our roman boss has agreed to pay for it. Taking Gerrard out is okay too, but mind, he will probably turn to us in January.
2. If having troubles defending with your feet, use your hands instead.

You also forgot there badsportmanship hugging each other rather than shaking our handsbad sportmanship at its worst.It was obvious from the first whistle Riley was never gonna be a fair refree first penalty descion was an joke knowing Riley im surprised he never booked Carragher its was a poor refreeing. The fa got to do somethink about it we can't have titles get decided by refreeing descions. Surely the fa must do somethink to ensure that apporaite action is taken to secure a higher standard of refree's in the premiership,for a moment Riley must of throught he was old trafford fortunately for him he quickly realised that error.As much as we won't to look to people to blame the Lampard tackle was fair i don't think he went to injury Alonso still shame his out for 2 months

by **anfieldadorer** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:16 am

L-type wrote:You caught everything i had posted earlier and more except i just posted decisions that cost us points. I forgot about Aston Villa and Monaco.

it was written by paul tomkins

the prior parts of the article (which is a top quality post) are:

It always sounds a bit tame when a manager finds excuses –– blaming referees and bad luck with injuries. But there has to come a point where you look at what's happened, and it becomes fair to say things have gone against you to a quite ludicrous degree; do you laugh, or do you cry? Staying sane would appear to be the challenge. To his great credit, Rafael Benitez has avoided making excuses (and thus not given the players a chance to feel sorry for themselves) –– but he has rightly pointed out the problems he has had to contend with. He doesn't labour points about referee's mistakes, or absent players, but he does acknowledge them.

You can start with the litany of injuries. Perhaps you can argue that more could be done about muscle strains (in some cases this is possibly true, although a perfectly fine and a thoroughly-stretched muscle isn't immune to sudden damage; witness the awkward fall of Michael Owen at home to Arsenal last season, and the over-extension of his calf muscle).

Three broken limbs in three-and-a-half months must be some kind of record. It is also worth pointing out that the most serious –– a terrible leg break –– was to the club's record signing, Djibril Cisse, and a £14m investment was removed from the equation in October. This came after the club's best player (and, of course, talisman), Steven Gerrard, broke a metatarsal bone in an innocuous-looking incident at Old Trafford.

The latest injury –– Frank Lampard's late and clumsy tackle on Xabi Alonso –– resulted in a broken ankle for the player who would perhaps have run Gerrard closest for Liverpool Player of the Year (and still might, if his healing is as quick as his thinking). With four months of the season left, Rick Parry must be double-checking all the players' insurance policies, and inviting any willing Witch Doctors to Anfield to remove any curses and hexes bestowed upon the club.

You have to have sympathy for Benitez. How can any manager be expected to deliver consistency in these circumstances? The task he faced this summer was hard enough without the slings and arrows of outrageous bad fortune.

On top of those three fractures (to go with two early during 2003/04), there have been a series of muscle problems: hamstring trouble for Baros and Luis Garcia, causing both to miss a succession of games, and Harry Kewell has been in and out of the side all season with lingering calf and groin injuries. Josemi has missed games from a stomach-turning clash of heads, and now has another injury. Kirkland's back started causing him trouble again, not long after he'd looked to have made the goalkeeper's position his own (albeit far from convincingly). Within a day of his arrival in England, Antonio Nunez fell awkwardly and damaged his knee, which delayed his debut by almost four months. Vladimir Smicer has missed the entire season so far, and will miss a fair bit more of it. Igor Biscan, in the best form of his Liverpool career, fell into the advertising hoardings at White Hart Lane and hasn't been seen since.

Nearly all of this season's injuries have befallen Liverpool's best players, or the 'lesser' players when they were in their best personal form. Benitez has had his hands tied in trying to pick a side, all season long.

And now onto refereeing (and their purblind assistants). All teams experience bad decisions, and bad luck. But it's the level this season which makes it so remarkable.

Let's start with the old clichéd adage: "Decisions even themselves out over the course of a season".

Clearly this is rubbish, as it assumes that there is some fairness at work; unfortunately, the Law of Averages doesn't have to apply, and life just isn't fair. If you flip a coin, and it's heads, the Law of Averages suggests the next flip will be tails. But the next coin flip has no memory of the preceding one; it starts again with a 50-50 chance (in other words, it doesn't say to itself "I landed heads last time, better land tails this time because the Law of Averages says so"). The previous flip has no bearing on the subsequent flip. Quite conceivably you could flip ten coins in a row and they all land on heads. (As a test, I just flipped a coin five times and got heads each time; the sixth was tails).

The difference with football is that during any single match, the referee has a 'memory' of the decisions. He knows that if he's given an unpopular decision (and refs know when they are wrong, they just rarely admit it), he can always 'even it up' later with a generous award. Had another handball occurred in the Chelsea box, you can bet Mike Riley would have been looking to give us a penalty. The officials like to think they treat every decision on its individual merits, but we all know that was has gone before colours their judgement.

The problem we are facing that it's different referees giving us bad decisions; so again there is no 'memory'. Unless we are once again assigned the linesman who wrongly chalked off Luis Garcia's goal at the Reebok (or his one at the Riverside, for that matter), or the referee from the Monaco game who laughably ignored Saviola's blatant handball, then we will have little chance of receiving a redistribution of fairness.

Put simply, the key decisions at the key moments during key games have gone against us. I am not bemoaning the offside goal when we were already well-beaten (having said that, only Boro have beaten Liverpool by more than a single-goal margin this season), or decisions when we were cruising at 3-0. We had a lucky decision in the League Cup at home to Boro, but that was hardly a key game this season; and Hamann could have been sent off against Norwich. Beyond that, very little has gone our way. (Yes, we've scored some deflected goals, but conceded some too; to my mind, a deflected goal is credit to the player for shooting in the first place).

While I don't think we were especially lucky during the Treble season of 2000/01, as plenty of things didn't go our way, the one thing that does stand out is that the key decisions at the key moments during key games went our way. Benitez hasn't had the luck Houllier enjoyed of a defender making a goal-line save with his hand at 0-0 and getting away with it. Against Roma at Anfield, the referee –– as did Mike Riley yesterday –– put his whistle to his lips, but in that case he changed his mind and awarded the Italians only a corner. Benitez has yet to have the luxury of the opposition striker blatantly handling the ball for no apparent reason (as did Patrick Kluivert, inexplicably, when Barcelona lost the Uefa Cup semi-final at Anfield), and the award of the penalty deciding the outcome of the match.

Instead, Benitez has seen opposition defenders punch balls away from almost certain goals (first Muzzy Izzet for Birmingham, and now Tiago of Chelsea) and the referees bottle giving us a decision; perhaps fearing accusations of being influenced by the Kop's cries. When the opposition handled in the other box, as did Javier Saviola in Monaco, it still goes against us; the ref says he saw Saviola move his hand to control the ball before scoring, but it was 'ball-to-hand'.

The tone was set on the first game of the season: Gerrard clearly hauled down by his shirt at Spurs, and nothing given. It wasn't even debatable; the Spurs full-back walked away from the situation with the letters 'ERRARD' and the number 8 clasped in his hand. This season one has been left with the feeling that if Hannibal Lecter were in the opposition defence, and he mutilated and the ate one of our players (with a nice chianti) the referee would look across at his linesman and then wave play on. (Afterwards saying "I felt he clearly played the ball before eating the man").

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:02 am

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:06 am

thats how angry i am

by **anfieldadorer** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:55 am

******1n top angry!

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:58 am

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:00 am

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BOLL@X

by **KennyisGod....still** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:20 pm

I know the Sun aint the favored paper on Merseyside, but one piece would make interestin readin for Keith Hackett at the next Refs Association meetin......
I aint gonna print the whole thing here, but over the last 2 and a 1/2 seasons hes pointed to the Old Thrashford spot 6 times in 8 games, with jus 1 against. We've secured 2, but given away 3, in 9 games. The entire rest of the Premiership have only had 8 pens given to them by this tw@. Somethin stinks, and I dont think its his socks!!
I will say neither Arsenal (1) nor Chelsea (0) have directly gained penalties, but they aint suffered them neither, both teams being penalised once each.
Interestingly, he's also sent off three players against Manure, (and Arsenal) yet not a single player for each. And that with their disciplinary records!!
I'd suggest Mr Hackett checks Riley's wardrobe for a scarf or two before his next meeting....... :angry:

by **anfieldadorer** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:25 pm

Keep Riley away from big games, urges Carragher Jan 3 2005

By Ian Doyle, Daily Post

JAMIE CARRAGHER has called on the Football Association to prevent Mike Riley from refereeing any more major games after Liverpool's controversial defeat to Chelsea.

Rafael Benitez's side were beaten by an 80th-minute Joe Cole goal at Anfield on Saturday to fall 18 points behind the Premiership leaders.

But referee Riley infuriated the home side with his failure to award Liverpool a first-half penalty after Chelsea midfielder Tiago blatantly handled the ball in front of The Kop.

And unhappy centre-back Carragher has said the referee should no longer officiate big games after making a similar blunder in failing to send off Rio Ferdinand in Manchester United's 2-0 win over Arsenal earlier this season and subsequently wrongly awarding United a penalty.

"Those decisions can decide the title," said Carragher.

"If the decision had gone our way on Saturday, we might have got three points. You never know what is going to happen.

"He's the same referee who made a big mistake in the Manchester United-Arsenal game. The FA should look at the referees who are officiating these big games.

"For the big games you need the top referees. This official has made two mistakes in the two big games he has refereed this season, and his actions have decided the out-come of both matches.

"If Arsenal had got the decision at Old Trafford, it all has a bearing on the title race and whether it goes to Chelsea or to Arsenal," he added.

"If the referees perform well, then they should be awarded the big games. But this referee is influencing the outcome of the title race with his decisions."

Carragher continued: "Everybody knows how difficult it is for referees. We know they don't get action replays but the handball was so blatant.

"He was in a great position to see it and we all turned around to him straight away as he was only five or six yards from the incident.

"I think it has to be looked at. The fact he gave us so many decisions afterwards was a surefire sign he knew he had got it wrong over the penalty. We were getting free-kicks which were probably Chelsea free-kicks."
Liverpool were unfortunate to lose after dominating the game for long periods.

And Carragher said: "We've done well against all the teams who have come here and we have put them under pressure. We deserved a draw at least, and maybe just shaded the game overall.

"Chelsea's defensive record could tip it in their favour. Arsenal may be easier on the eye but if you keep clean sheets, you are going to win things."

Liverpool manager Benitez - who will be without Xabi Alonso for six weeks after the Spaniard broke his right ankle following a tackle by Frank Lampard - concurred with the view his team were unlucky.

"Against one of the most important teams in Europe at the moment, we controlled the game and had enough opportunities to score," said Benitez, who expects Milan Baros to be fit for today's game at Norwich City.

"But two things changed the game. The injury to Xabi Alonso hurt us because we needed to change many things, and then we didn't get the penalty.

"I have seen it on the television and we don't understand why it wasn't given. In the second half we lost a bit of control in midfield because of the injury to Alonso. We needed to move around Gerrard, Luis Garcia and Nunez, and we started to lose more second balls and it gave them more chance to control the game."

The defeat is sure to reopen speculation of Steven Gerrard leaving Anfield for Stamford Bridge, but Benitez insisted: "Steven was very disappointed. I am sure that he will have noticed that we were superior in the first half, and that with a few changes in details we can win these games."

Benitez reiterated his desire to bring in new faces during the transfer window, although his targets could alter slightly following the injury to Alonso, with Igor Biscan unlikely to be allowed to leave.

"We played very well on Saturday," he said.. "Our play-ers worked very hard and with a lot of confidence. The difference here was that we were unlucky, but over the course of a full season we know we need to improve and to increase the competitiveness between the players in our squad. It is important to do that."

Of Saturday's game, Benitez added: "Chelsea are a strong team. They have good experience, are very strong in defence and have good forwards.

"They know that if they don't concede goals, you will always have a couple of chances during a game and they tend to take them.

"In Jose Mourinho, they have a good manager. It is not easy to organise a squad of good players and get results but he is managing to do that."

by **Leonmc0708** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:38 pm

Carra looks about 14 in that picture Annie

by **Woollyback** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:42 pm

One for the LFC hunkzone juniors

by **anfieldadorer** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:33 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:Carra looks about 14 in that picture Annie

yep, he never gets old being in Liverpool

by **Judge** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:40 pm

wipes his nose alot on his sleeve many times during a match, one would think he was 14

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