Liverpool FC Forum

by **JBG** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:32 pm

I think Big Al's comment about Man UTD is spot on.

You can also say the same about the Arsenal side of 1998 (just before Houllier arrived) and the current Arsenal team.

In 1998 Petit, Adams, Overmars, Anelka and Bergkamp were the main Arsenal players, together with Vieira, although he was very much Petit's understudy at the time.

The title winning side of 2002 and the current side had the following players which were not available to Wenger in 2002:

Henry, Kanu, Pires, Toure, Ljunberg, Lauren, Cole, Campbell, Edu and Wiltord, plus Gilberto Silva and Lehman are now onboard.

Arsenal effectively changed their entire team, with the exception of Vieira and to a far lesser degree Bergkamp, in the same time as Houllier has been onboard.

If you think about it in those terms maybe people might start questioning Houllier's spin about 5/10/50 year plans.

by **Dom1** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:23 pm

Owzat wrote:
Dom1 wrote:p.s. do us a favour mate and make a vote in general chat about what Gaz31 has said about me!! and say u strongly disagree about me and the crew not knowing feck all about footy.

TA MATE!!

You and Beavis can certainly discuss football with a fair amount of knowledge

THANX OWZAT FRIEND!!

THANKYOU FOR SUPPORTING THE BEAVIS CREW ARE NOT BUM BOYS AND DO KNOW A LOT ABOUT FOOTY PETITION!!

WOAH!! I DONT BELIVE I HAVE JUST THANKED OWZAT.................WELL THERE IS A 1st FOR EVERYTHING.

ANYWAY TA...........DOM1

by **Dom1** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:26 pm

coops wrote:
Dom1 wrote:yeah i agree wid u there mate, no doubt he is a great manager

I totally disagree. How can you possibly say he is a 'great' manager? He is a million miles away from being such.

Paisley, Ferguson, Shanks - great managers.

GH is not in the same league.

OH COOPS, I MUST ADMIT I WAS A BIT WRONG IN MY JUDGEMENT THERE WHAT I MEANT TO SAY WAS!! AHEM!!

"NO DOUBT HE *WAS* A *GOOD* MANAGER"

OK I HAVE CORRECTED MYSELF. NO U MUST AGREE WITH ME!!

DOM1

by **116-1065305004** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:28 pm

Owzat wrote:You and Beavis can certainly discuss football with a fair amount of knowledge

Thanks Owzat for your honesty, you must be the first person on this forum to say that :cool:

by **biscans tutor** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:23 pm

houllier is rubbish he keeps bying second class frogs instead of proven quality and apart from emile when did he last by an english player?

by **kopper** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:58 pm

Some of the earlier posts have suggested that Houllier's buying record is good and that the problem is playing certain players out of position !
Sorry but I cannot accept that....
Ferri , Song , Smicer , Heskey , Barmby , Ziege , Vignal , Biscan , Xavier , Diao , Diouf and Cheyrou have all had their chances in their preferred positions ( some admittably more than others ) and how many have been worth the money ? Passing up the chance to buy Anelka was hardly evidence of a genius in the transfer market.

I think u forgot to add...
Kewel, Pongolle, Le Tallec, Risse, Hyppia and Cisse soon. Fair enough he has made a couple of bad choices, namely Xavier, Ziege and maybe Smicer but even Alex has made a few namely Bronkia(sorry, don't know how to spell his name), Forlan and Barthez..oh and IMO 30mill is too much for Ferdinand when Nesta cost half. All managers make a few bad signings. As far as Diouf and Cheyrou are concerned, Diouf hasn't played in the position he was bought for, fair enough Cheyrou hasn't impressed but maybe he needs more time. I believe that the names we have on paper are good enough, just not managed and the talent not nurtured.

by **JBG** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:42 pm

kopper wrote:I think u forgot to add...
Kewel, Pongolle, Le Tallec, Risse, Hyppia and Cisse soon.

I have read some ridiculous posts in my time on this forum but here is a guy who counts the "signing" of Djbril Cisse as being a successful Houllier signing.

I could go on about Cisse being an Auxerre player, the fact that no money has exchanged hands and no deal been done, as well as mention that Cisse hasn't played ONE SECOND for Liverpool, but what it the point arguing with someone who is so obviously taken in by the Houllier spin.

As for the others....

Kewell....good signing but still miles off his best.
Pongolle & Le Tallec: look like they have potential but they have won us nothing yet, and neither look as good as McMannaman, Gerrard, Owen or Fowler at their age. In fact, I'm going to strangle the next person that claims Pongolle and Le Tallec are great signings by Houllier. They have won us nothing!

Riise: a good first season, but was poor last year and even worse this year. Gives the ball away far too often for a top 5 team.

Hyppia: excellent signing but Hyppia hasn't looked too clever in the past 14 months.

Cisse....

by **THEBARON** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:53 pm

So Diouf hasn't had a chance in his preferred position ?
I seem to remember Heskey being forced wider on the flanks earlier last season to give Diouf a chance He started well enough against Southampton but his goalscoring threat has diminished rapidly since. Even if he now plays wide right rather than as an outright forward you would still expect him to contribute the odd goal. Mind you the number of bookings he has accumulated should appeal to Houllier and his believers who love their statistics.
We are asked to give Cheyrou more time ! True he has played f##k all this season because of injury but I didn't see anything to inspire me last season from "The new zidane". Yes he took the goal at Chelsea well but did f##k all else. At the weekend he was largely anonymous and did nothing to justify his selection.
Is Riise really a great signing ? His overall record suggests otherwise. An encouraging first season has not been repeated and the fact that Traore ( with all his excellent distribution ) is picked ahead of him speaks volumes.
Le Tallec and Sinama-Pongolle ? After half a season it is way too early to hail them as successes.True they have both made some positive contributions and made an impact when called upon but they are still raw and unproven.
Yes there have been some superb signings , but when you have invested over £ 100 million in the transfer market you would expect to buy some winners. Henchoz , Hamann and Hyypia were all excellent signings and should all still feature in the starting 11.Mcallister and Babbel cost no fees but gave good value in their first season. It is too early to accurately judge Kewell and Finnan.
Overall have we spent our millions wisely under Houllier ?
Those of us who can see through the Houllier school of spin know the answer.

by **kopper** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:20 pm

I could go on about Cisse being an Auxerre player, the fact that no money has exchanged hands and no deal been done, as well as mention that Cisse hasn't played ONE SECOND for Liverpool, but what it the point arguing with someone who is so obviously taken in by the Houllier spin.

No I'm not taken in by the Houllier spin, I too want to see the back of him. What Im arguing is that his signings haven't been bad.

Very well we haven't signed Cisse yet, and you have your opinion on him having limited talent, but that is only an opinion. We are yet to see how he will perform.... but seriously, anyone up front is better than Heskey.

Pongolle & Le Tallec: look like they have potential but they have won us nothing yet, and neither look as good as McMannaman, Gerrard, Owen or Fowler at their age. In fact, I'm going to strangle the next person that claims Pongolle and Le Tallec are great signings by Houllier. They have won us nothing

Obviously they have won us nothing, they just joined.
Anyways how often do you see them on the pitch, and yet you yourself say they have potential, in my book this is cause for hope. I believe they have great potential, and that is my opinion.

by **leothelion** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:25 am

YES HOULLIER HAS MADE SOME GREAT SIGNINGS AND SOME cr#p BUT HE NEVER ADMITS TO THE cr#p AND PLAYS THEM GAME AFTER GAME
HOW MANY CHANCES DO YOU GIVE A PLAYER TO PROVE HIMSELF ?
EVEN WITH SOME OF THE GOOD SIGNINGS HOULLIER DOESN'T GET THE BEST OUT OF THEM I'M SURE THEY COULD BE EXCELLENT PLAYERS BUT HOULLIER PUTS UP WITH UNDER PERFORMANCE WEEK AFTER WEEK
LOOK AT ANY OTHER TEAM WHETHER PREMIERSHIP OR ANY DIVISION IF A PLAYER PLAYS cr#p ONE WEEK HES EITHER DROPPED OR PLAYS OUTSTANDING THE FOLLOWING WEEK IF HE.'S CONSTANTLY UNDER PERFORMING HE'S OUT THE DOOR .
AS MUCH AS I LIKE G.H AND AS MUCH AS I WANT HIM TO STAY AT ANFIELD IF HE CAN'T GET THE PLAYERS TO DO THE JOB THEIR BEING PAYED A HELL OF A LOT OF MONEY TO DO LET'S GET SOMEONE WHO CAN GET THEM TO DO THAT JOB .
DO THESE PLAYERS ACTUALLY WATCH THEMSELVES ON TV .
DO THEY NOT FEEL GUILTY FOR ACCEPTING A WEEKS WAGE THAT SOME OF US WOULD NOT GET IN A YEAR
IF THERE HAPPY SHOWING UP UNDER PERFORMING STILL GETING PAYED ITS UP TO THE GAFFER TO STEP IN AND SAY HE'S NOT GOING TO ACCEPT IT
MY BOSS WOULD AS IM SURE MOST OF YOURS WOULD

by **kopper** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:13 pm

YES HOULLIER HAS MADE SOME GREAT SIGNINGS AND SOME cr#p BUT HE NEVER ADMITS TO THE cr#p AND PLAYS THEM GAME AFTER GAME
HOW MANY CHANCES DO YOU GIVE A PLAYER TO PROVE HIMSELF ?
EVEN WITH SOME OF THE GOOD SIGNINGS HOULLIER DOESN'T GET THE BEST OUT OF THEM I'M SURE THEY COULD BE EXCELLENT PLAYERS BUT HOULLIER PUTS UP WITH UNDER PERFORMANCE WEEK AFTER WEEK
LOOK AT ANY OTHER TEAM WHETHER PREMIERSHIP OR ANY DIVISION IF A PLAYER PLAYS cr#p ONE WEEK HES EITHER DROPPED OR PLAYS OUTSTANDING THE FOLLOWING WEEK IF HE.'S CONSTANTLY UNDER PERFORMING HE'S OUT THE DOOR .
AS MUCH AS I LIKE G.H AND AS MUCH AS I WANT HIM TO STAY AT ANFIELD IF HE CAN'T GET THE PLAYERS TO DO THE JOB THEIR BEING PAYED A HELL OF A LOT OF MONEY TO DO LET'S GET SOMEONE WHO CAN GET THEM TO DO THAT JOB .
DO THESE PLAYERS ACTUALLY WATCH THEMSELVES ON TV .
DO THEY NOT FEEL GUILTY FOR ACCEPTING A WEEKS WAGE THAT SOME OF US WOULD NOT GET IN A YEAR
IF THERE HAPPY SHOWING UP UNDER PERFORMING STILL GETING PAYED ITS UP TO THE GAFFER TO STEP IN AND SAY HE'S NOT GOING TO ACCEPT IT
MY BOSS WOULD AS IM SURE MOST OF YOURS WOULD

Excellent point, and this is exactly it.....we need someone who can manage and nurture this team, like I've been saying. Houllier has been given enough time and has not provided, the players on the team are not cr#p....they need good management and guidance. Liverpool managers of the past could bring out the best in their players, something unfortunately Wenger and Alex do best nowadays.

As far as how many chances to give those not performing.....the problem is Houllier has bought most players from leagues other than the premiership, and they would need a large amount of time to adjust, some more than others. Diouf, in my opinion is improving, be it slowly but showing a great deal of promise, many would disagree but this is how I feel. Houllier needs some established premiership players on the pitch like the Coles and Duffs.

by **big al** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:19 pm

Making excellent signings is one thing but a good manager has to be in a position to sustain the level of play. That's why I think its silly to talk about injuries. Good managers adapt they always seem to have a back up plan especially the big clubs. I remember Past liverpool players when injuries stuck, suddenly these wonder players emerged from the reserves or the youth team. People talk about strenght in depth but we had that without buying in superstars. It all went tits up with Souness but Houlier has one of the best academies in the world, youth development is supposedly his field of expertise, so were are the emerging stars. Before some one talks about Owen and Gerrard they were already around before Houleir. Houlier has bought to players from france with great potential but were are the local kids, whats going on does anyone out there know.

by **Bring Dalglish back** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:38 pm

I completely agree with the opening post of this thread.

Just to add a new angle to this debate - the aspect of the many different Liverpool side’s over the last 10 or so years that worries me the most is the defence, which has always been vulnerable and lacking any kind of stability. This problem has emanated from sheer poor management from Souness, Evans and Houllier. It does not take an individual who has all the UEFA coaching badges available to realise that the first rule of thumb when assembling a team is to ‘work from the back’. Contrary to this management ethic, Houllier keeps persisting in playing the likes of Biscan in our rear-guard, who is a joke.

by **big al** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:22 pm

Bdb your right mate Biscan is sh1t I can see it you can see it and nearly everybody in football acn see it even some of the prats on sky sports but why can't Houleir see it is he blind. I have long thought that Houlier had lost it but only since he started to play Biscan in the team. Remember it all started last year near Christmas and we've been s##t ever since. Back then I was hoping Babble would recover quickly sadly no. Carragher then recover the right back position, good I thought, Then Biscan started in Mid-flied bloody disaster, Then he ended up in centre halve biggest bloody mistake ever made. What is the problem is Houleir F**king blind. You know what Stu and all you other Houleir supporters, Biscan and Houleir's total misjudgement over him is what is really Why I think he's ashit manager. I can see the problem, loads of fans can see it even idiots like Ron Attkinson can bloody see it and he's a ***** so why can Houleir not see it. Biscan cost us the Chelsea game at Anfiled by doing a walkies on Veron, He followed that up by allowing Aresenal too much space for Peres wonder goal and perhaps even the Hypia deflection. He p#ssed about with Man U again to our detriment need I go on. Spurs just proved every thing I'ver been saying since the beginning of the season. Don't beleive me go back to all my early posts and they are all focused on Biscan. He is cr#p, He's brought an outsatnding defence to be cr#p. Hypia constantly either over compensates or more recently puts too much faith in him. Biscan is the problem!

by **leothelion** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:08 am

totaly agree al biscuit will not fit in in any position and should not be in our squad We can say this but GH won't admit when he makes a mistake so he will keep playing him hence we will keep dropping points maybe that is why our great team who would have been ashamed of fourth position in the past are struggling to get there now

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