Liverpool FC Forum

Every "top" team goes through a period where they can't dominate anymore. They're past their peak and into decline, age has caught up and other factors.

Fergie dominated for soo long because he was able to freshen his side, correct me if I'm wrong but during his 20 years I'm sure he created 3 sides.

It is all about getting the right players in due time.

I can't remember though how Fergie did it, did he spend over the odds during those times??

He did have tough competition in Arsenal and then the lottery winners Chelsea of those days.

Maybe someone here has a better insight into how he was able to keep creating a side that was challenging.

Even when they were flying United regularly spent big on players like Cole, Ferdinand, Rooney, Veron etc etc.
It's clear as day now with us languishing halfway down the table and showing relegation type form that the decision not to sign players when we were in a position of strength was a major effing clanger.

Yup, also to point out he was more ruthless with his players where as Klopp is a bit too loyal.

On Sunday I watched City lose their 4th league game from the 21 they've played. Then watched Guardiola's interview and he looked tired and deflated. He had an unusual outburst a few weeks ago too saying the players and crowd are lacking. They may not have fallen off a cliff like we have but they are not the same and there is no chance they get 90+ points.

These 2 great sides and great managers have pushed eachother to the limit with great intensity over the last few years and I wonder if physically and mentally it's having an effect on what we're seeing on the pitch. I do wonder how much is left in the tank for both the players and the manager.

Might be weird to say but it might be better if we fall out of Europe completely for next season. Everyone take a proper break in the summer regardless of how late we start pre-season, sacrifice the money made from pre-season tours and work from Kirkby/a single location in Europe instead, and refresh across the squad.

If we look at Wenger, he only proper competed during their dominant days of title wins. After that he really struggled to create another side, trying several times. Best he was able to deliver was UCL spots and domestic trophies.

Wenger seems another one that was bit too "loyal" to his players.

Eagle » Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:02 pm wrote:On Sunday I watched City lose their 4th league game from the 21 they've played. Then watched Guardiola's interview and he looked tired and deflated. He had an unusual outburst a few weeks ago too saying the players and crowd are lacking. They may not have fallen off a cliff like we have but they are not the same and there is no chance they get 90+ points.

These 2 great sides and great managers have pushed eachother to the limit with great intensity over the last few years and I wonder if physically and mentally it's having an effect on what we're seeing on the pitch. I do wonder how much is left in the tank for both the players and the manager.

Might be weird to say but it might be better if we fall out of Europe completely for next season. Everyone take a proper break in the summer regardless of how late we start pre-season, sacrifice the money made from pre-season tours and work from Kirkby/a single location in Europe instead, and refresh across the squad.

He'll spend big in the summer and bounce back,they had an off season when we won the title and the following season were back.

I think alot of our problems have been buying players in their prime at around 26/27 years old. Obviously they only have 3 to 4 years playing with the intensity Klopp requires from his players.

United had alot of kids all around the 20 year old mark, and then just needed to add a world class player every now and again to freshen it up.

Arsenal have a really young team aswell and if Arteta can keep hold of his best young players they could cause problems for alot of years.

redshade » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:05 pm wrote:If we look at Wenger, he only proper competed during their dominant days of title wins. After that he really struggled to create another side, trying several times. Best he was able to deliver was UCL spots and domestic trophies.

Wenger seems another one that was bit too "loyal" to his players.

They never spent a lot of money on players though. Before Abramovich, United were the biggest spenders(along with Newcastle and, khm, us, but let's not talk about that). Admittedly, it might not have been a huge difference in expenditure like nowadays, but Wenger was definitely outspent by Fergie.

UvS xR4GEx » Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:10 pm wrote:I think alot of our problems have been buying players in their prime at around 26/27 years old. Obviously they only have 3 to 4 years playing with the intensity Klopp requires from his players.

United had alot of kids all around the 20 year old mark, and then just needed to add a world class player every now and again to freshen it up.

Arsenal have a really young team aswell and if Arteta can keep hold of his best young players they could cause problems for alot of years.

Who have we bought in at the age of 26/27? Most players Klopp has bought in have been under 25 I think. Only a handful older like Thiago.

damjan193 » Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:51 pm wrote:

redshade » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:05 pm wrote:If we look at Wenger, he only proper competed during their dominant days of title wins. After that he really struggled to create another side, trying several times. Best he was able to deliver was UCL spots and domestic trophies.

Wenger seems another one that was bit too "loyal" to his players.

They never spent a lot of money on players though. Before Abramovich, United were the biggest spenders(along with Newcastle and, khm, us, but let's not talk about that). Admittedly, it might not have been a huge difference in expenditure like nowadays, but Wenger was definitely outspent by Fergie.

Yup Fergie did definitely spend more during Wengers latter tenure.

Fergie bought in top dollar players that he didn't really need but it reinforced his squad and kept the players hungry. Liverpool players aren't hungry, they're just exhausted because the squad players like Ox, Keita, and 5 others haven't pulled their weight.

Eagle » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:29 pm wrote:

UvS xR4GEx » Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:10 pm wrote:I think alot of our problems have been buying players in their prime at around 26/27 years old. Obviously they only have 3 to 4 years playing with the intensity Klopp requires from his players.

United had alot of kids all around the 20 year old mark, and then just needed to add a world class player every now and again to freshen it up.

Arsenal have a really young team aswell and if Arteta can keep hold of his best young players they could cause problems for alot of years.

Who have we bought in at the age of 26/27? Most players Klopp has bought in have been under 25 I think. Only a handful older like Thiago.

Players like Salah, Mane, VVD, Alisson, Gini, Fabinho were all 25 or older if I remember. I thought Jota and Ox fell under that category aswell but they were 24 when we signed them.

Good thread Mate.

Yeah Fergie was an excellent manager even though it kills me to say it. I would put it at 3 sides rebuilt by him during his tenure. He was also ruthless with players and in turn got serious respect back. They didn't dare step on to that pitch and not give 100% every week.

We are sitting on so much deadwood and it's more to do with valuations not being met so they don't leave. No way Klopp is in there saying don't sell Phillips, Ox or Keita. Either or all 3 could have left here 2 or 3 years ago and they wouldn't have been missed. Klopp has F all to do with that imo and it's down to balancing the wage bill and policies that they are still here.

We don't have CL money next season so that will hurt. That Merit lark for the CL starting the season after was scrapped a while ago so if we want back in it will have to be earned the hard way. We absolutely cannot do stuff like trim the squad or just sign Bellingham and one for the future. We can't be going into next season with the same worries hanging over the same players.