Liverpool FC Forum

Wouldn't go as far as Stu, but I can't really disagree with him here.

Skrtel isn't such a bad defender. He can have a good game every now and then and even scores goals sometimes. But he is, as you people like to call it, a liability. He just makes too many basic errors that are unacceptable at this level. He can be good for an entire game but he always tends to do a little basic f*ck up that costs us a goal. I wouldn't be bothered if it happened only a few times during a season but he does a horrible basic mistake every other game. We just can't afford that I'm afraid.

devaney » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:10 pm wrote:Stu to be honest mate I think your own argument isn't so strong. You've highlighted some of his mistakes but you have done nothing to prove your point that he is nearly always the weak link which I certainly don't agree with. Your over the top nonsense about his own goals is a sad moment of desperation. We all have them    just have another beer or ten 

And  stop using so many fkg smilies yer miserable git   :cool:           

I've had 8 already and am still making more sense than most!   

The point is Devaney, as I've said, his mistakes are poor. They aren't understandable mistakes or everyday error's. Its absolute school boy error's he keeps making. Its the same mistakes over and over again and a lack of teamwork and positional play, which quite frankly, are two of the easier parts of defending.

If he's getting done for pace by Aguero, or outfoxed by Ozil, or out muscled by Benteke, I'd by fine with it... Sh*t happens, sometimes someone is just better than you. But it isn't, the mistakes he's making are mistakes that players in the Evo-Stick make and quite frankly, I find it infuriating a player on £70,000 a week is making mistakes like he does and he keeps getting away with it and getting picked. Make no mistake, since he's come into the side he knocked the confidence of one of the best keepers we've ever had and contributed heavily to the fact we concede more than a goal every game these days.

He is generally ok at tackling one on one, when he doesn't just back off (which he does a lot of) and he's pretty strong, decent in the air from goal kicks and he's fairly quick. He makes a good recovery tackle and he'll put his head in anywhere but beyond that there isn't much there. He's a liability on set pieces and I could probably name 15 goals this season he's been the main culprit in and had the "worst" contribution too. Its been like that for years to be quite honest and 6 good months in 5 years isn't enough to convince me he's anything other than distinctly average.

Those calling him the best in the league or one of our best players are on cloud cuckoo land. Fact is, if you replaced him with 75% of the centre halfs in the league we'd be no worse off. In a lot of cases we'd be better off.

Stu the Red » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:40 pm wrote:

SouthCoastShankly » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:52 pm wrote:Despite being dropped for Carragher last season (which I agreed with BTW. His form dipped he got dropped - no biggie), he still made 33 appearances. The most telling stat of his career is the four teams he has made the most appearance against

14 Manchester United
14 Chelsea
14 Everton
13 Manchester City

Why on earth would successive managers continue to play their worst defender in the biggest games every season?

His league record against those sides is -

13W 13D 9L

Not too shabby.

You hold a minority opinion, that's the end of it. For someone you've never rated, I like to see your defence of his fans player of the year award (with a whopping 44% of the vote) he got a year and half ago. Additionally Echo readers (who vote after every game) have him as our best centre back, in fact top 3 in the whole squad.

Despite your constant attempt to show me the mistakes he makes, you fail to see the flaw in your methods. 1) You could pick out similar CB mistakes for most goals conceded in the league 2) For every mistake you highlight you ignore the clearance, interception, aerial duel won to prevent a goal.

Journalists in virtually every paper have written about Martin Skrtel's resurgence and return to form from last season. Everything you read on him indicates his importance to the team.

But I guess they all have a blind spot for him also.

So you actually believe a player who is bad enough to get dropped for a 35 year old Jamie Carragher is good option?

You then go on to state that its a telling stat he's played against Man Utd, Chelsea and City like its some sort of achievement for a player playing for Liverpool?  

You then try to back this up with a win, loss, draw argument?

Then you say its a minority opinion? What? Because the majority are always right?

On the apparent floors in my arguements, the point is he is NEARLY EVERY TIME the weak link in every goal we concede. He always makes the most glaring and amateurish error and he's the reason we concede most of if not all of the goals we do. What you fail to grasp, is with his mistakes they are poor mistakes. They aren't understanable mistakes, or mistakes anyone can make, they're consistently awful mistakes that he makes time and time again and has never ever learnt in the 5 years he's been here.

And journalists? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Because they often know there stuff!

That has to be one of the worst arguments I've ever come across, as I said, you've avoided the issue as usual. You refuse to comment on individual goals and you refuse to comment on the amount of goals conceded before and after Skrtel because they don't suit your weak argument!

Right let's put this bed.

Before I make my final comments to the jury, let's clear some things up.

Regarding your scepticism about my job and travel habits, you see your doubts about it is completely irrelevant. If you need proof I can give you it but I don't see how it fits into the remit of this forum. However the difference is when you position yourself as more experienced that the rest of us humble supporters on this forum by suggesting you know more or know people in the know, then that becomes completely relevant and until I see proof I call bullsh!t. Over to you.

Back to Skrtel.

The funny thing with majorities is they tend to be right, of course there are exceptions but think about what you are saying -

You are claiming that Benitez, Hodgson, Dalglish, Rodgers, All the various coaching staff who had fed the management team, sports writers, supporters reading articles then voting on the performance of their team, supporter voicing their support of him on forums like this - all are wrong. And your view of Skrtel is right.

You really sticking to that?

Are you really that proud? Egotistic?

My opinions are formed as a critical thinker (google it). I see evidence and form an opinion. Evidence in the form of what I see, statistics, other more informed opinions (journalists, writers, coaches, etc - I.e. not you) who are closer to the game. Yet the great thing with being a critical thinker is you follow whatever the evidence is telling you. You notice the difference that your opinion based purely on your emotional dislike of Skrtel. It all too very female for me.

SouthCoastShankly » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:59 pm wrote:Right let's put this bed.

Before I make my final comments to the jury, let's clear some things up.

Regarding your scepticism about my job and travel habits, you see your doubts about it is completely irrelevant. If you need proof I can give you it but I don't see how it fits into the remit of this forum. However the difference is when you position yourself as more experienced that the rest of us humble supporters on this forum by suggesting you know more or know people in the know, then that becomes completely relevant and until I see proof I call bullsh!t. Over to you.

Back to Skrtel.

The funny thing with majorities is they tend to be right, of course there are exceptions but think about what you are saying -

You are claiming that Benitez, Hodgson, Dalglish, Rodgers, All the various coaching staff who had fed the management team, sports writers, supporters reading articles then voting on the performance of their team, supporter voicing their support of him on forums like this - all are wrong. And your view of Skrtel is right.

You really sticking to that?

Are you really that proud? Egotistic?

My opinions are formed as a critical thinker (google it). I see evidence and form an opinion. Evidence in the form of what I see, statistics, other more informed opinions (journalists, writers, coaches, etc - I.e. not you) who are closer to the game. Yet the great thing with being a critical thinker is you follow whatever the evidence is telling you. You notice the difference that your opinion based purely on your emotional dislike of Skrtel. It all too very female for me.

Exactly my point, you can "call bullsh*t" all you like, you know nothing about me except my first name and chances are it will always be that way.

It doesn't matter if I show you pictures of where I used to live, who I played for growing up, who's paid me to play for them, where I qualified as a football coach on various level's, what team I'm currently involved with, what ex Australian international and premier league footballer I see every other day, what ex Oldham player I am mates with and it doesn't matter if I have a mate who captains Coventry and another who plays for Wigan... none of it matters... because you'll no doubt find some stupid way to deflect any of that away by coming out with some ***** like "its not the premier league" or "football writers don't go there so it must be *****", you have that kind of attitude.

Clearly, that when someone knows something you don't, you go into a defensive mode and come up with the most ridiculous arguments to massage your own ego. The funny thing is, you're very quick to have a pop at my ego, yet, I often find myself very quiet when in the presence of someone who knows their stuff, as I like to learn and listen. The main reason for that is I recognise when people are talking sense. I don't base arguments on silly statistics which tell about 5% of a story.

All that matters, is what's posted on here at the end of the day... and everything you post, never confronts anything head on and never discusses issues (like the goals we conceded which prove Skrtel is a liability).

I've gladly pointed out with a fairly limited analysis of certain goals we've conceded pointing to major flaws in Skrtel's game and you've still, 4 posts later, failed to take these points on board and argue them in anything like a decent manor. Obviously that is due to the lack of understanding and ability to understand what is happening as play unfolds and why it happens like it does. If you really want me too... when I have time one weekend and I'm bored I'll do an analysis of every goal we've conceded and tell you how they're stopped, route cause, game plans and patterns in play... maybe you'll learn something...

With regards to your majority... Dalglish wasn't there long enough to ship Skrtel out and had no-one else he could play there anyway, the spaniard signed him, typical signing of his, and Hodgson? Well, need I say I disagree with his judgement. A man who signed Konchesky for this club isn't to be trusted. Continuing with that argument also, what about Heskey then? Sven? Houllier? O'Neil, all trophy winning managers praised him and played him, some played him ahead of Fowler... does this mean he was better than Fowler then? As well as Michael Owen praising him in the press... but I seem to remember you not being keen on him? So how does that work?

You then go on about sports writers... well... sorry about this, but the media does not, and never will influence my opinion on how good a player is. Most of them are clueless idiots who wouldn't know a good player or tactical move if one punched them square on the nose.

And for your information, on a personal level, I have no problem what so ever with Martin, infact, out of all of the players I've met who play for Liverpool, I find him the most like-able.

Someone should tell Martin not to climb on the back of players during the goal celebration, and that he should stop all these tugging and wrestling the opponents during corners/free kicks/crosses as referees tends to side with the play acting of opposition

Two thing wil happen...he will injure one of the teammate and he will concede unnecessary penalties.

Largely untested but looked A LOT better.

Actually put in an error free performance.

he was sporting his headband again too...   teenage mutent ninja skrtel

You should definately stick to humour rather than talking about football

Just spat my coke everywhere!

Has been immense of late!

Boss game, no errors, let's hope he keep it that way

Quality performance, last 3 games, faultless. Typical Skrtel though, has a few good games every season which seems to be enough then costs us a Sh*t load of goals. Hopefully his good form will continue.

Stu you just can't help yourself 

Stu the Red » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:17 pm wrote:Quality performance, last 3 games, faultless. Typical Skrtel though, has a few good games every season which seems to be enough then costs us a Sh*t load of goals. Hopefully his good form will continue .

Hopefully it will, because I'm banking on us selling him for a huge fee in the summer 

7_Kewell » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:54 pm wrote:

Stu the Red » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:17 pm wrote:Quality performance, last 3 games, faultless. Typical Skrtel though, has a few good games every season which seems to be enough then costs us a Sh*t load of goals. Hopefully his good form will continue .

Hopefully it will, because I'm banking on us selling him for a huge fee in the summer 

The thing that really ***** me off about him is he seems to do the difficult stuff quite well and he's always a threat from corners, that header today was ridiculous, you can't defend against that. He always has a few games a season where he looks fantastic and the last three he's looked exactly that when needed... however, the basic errors throughout every season are beyond defensible. Hopefully, he'll continue to the end of the season, then we can get a decent fee.

Stu the Red » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:22 pm wrote:

7_Kewell » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:54 pm wrote:

Stu the Red » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:17 pm wrote:Quality performance, last 3 games, faultless. Typical Skrtel though, has a few good games every season which seems to be enough then costs us a Sh*t load of goals. Hopefully his good form will continue .

Hopefully it will, because I'm banking on us selling him for a huge fee in the summer 

The thing that really ***** me off about him is he seems to do the difficult stuff quite well and he's always a threat from corners, that header today was ridiculous, you can't defend against that. He always has a few games a season where he looks fantastic and the last three he's looked exactly that when needed... however, the basic errors throughout every season are beyond defensible. Hopefully, he'll continue to the end of the season, then we can get a decent fee.

Agree totally. Would snap anyone's hand off who offers 10+ million for him in the summer