Liverpool FC Forum

Can still ping the ball around and put in some excellent tackles but he does spend a fair bit of time walking and watching play when his team mates could do with him making an angle for the pass or providing support in pressing. Also sinks into his own box too often and too early. The physical decline over the last few seasons has been sad to watch. Absolute legend but you get the feeling that the end is closing in quickly.

There's a big difference between a ball winner and a playmaker who can tackle. Ball winners are generally high energy terriers who will aggressively hunt the ball down, ie Mascha and Lucas, and to some extent, Gerrard. Alonso is a playmaker. No two ways about it. He dosen't have the pace, stamina, aggression or desire to be a ball winner.

Gerrard has the necessary qualities, but he has much more to his game and would be wasted as a ball winner. He'd be better as a playmaker who can tackle.

I think we would have a more solid midfield with Xabi and Lucas rather than with Gerrard. Lucas is the ball winner, while Xabi is the playmaker, who also has a great tactical awareness and is a great reader of the game, making him one of the best DM's in the world.

Gerrard has never been tactically disciplined enough. He was always about Hollywood passes, long shots, beating players with energy runs, leadership and much more, but I don't think that he was ever able of doing the Alonso role, especially not with this age. That's why I believe we'll have a more solid midfield if we had Xabi (or someone similar). That doesn't mean that we should drop Gerrard for good. We would be able to swap them often so both won't have to play every week or we could just play Gerrard somewhere else.

The only problem that I see with this is both Gerrard's and Xabi's age.

RedAnt » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:18 pm wrote:There's a big difference between a ball winner and a playmaker who can tackle. Ball winners are generally high energy terriers who will aggressively hunt the ball down, ie Mascha and Lucas, and to some extent, Gerrard. Alonso is a playmaker. No two ways about it. He dosen't have the pace, stamina, aggression or desire to be a ball winner.

Gerrard has the necessary qualities, but he has much more to his game and would be wasted as a ball winner. He'd be better as a playmaker who can tackle.

Rubbish.

Alonso and Hamann were both "ball winners". There is more than one way to skin a cat Ant. The point is they could do other stuff aswell.

Alonso read the game far better than Mascherano could ever have dreamt of. He made more interceptions in a match and picked up more opposition clearances than any Liverpool player I've ever seen. In short, he was twice the player Mashcherano was made out to be by sections of our own.

The lad was a class player for us. To many people are obbsessed with "DM's" and "AMCR" and all that *****. Trying to over complicate the game does no-one any favours. Alonso was/is a central midfielder who can pass, tackle, intercept and generally play the game very well.

He had quality. Something we sadly lack at this present moment, saying he was a "deep lying play maker" doesn't make you sound clever, it makes you sound like you just listen to the media and repeat cliche rubbish you hear on television.

StuYesThatStu » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:52 pm wrote:

RedAnt » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:18 pm wrote:There's a big difference between a ball winner and a playmaker who can tackle. Ball winners are generally high energy terriers who will aggressively hunt the ball down, ie Mascha and Lucas, and to some extent, Gerrard. Alonso is a playmaker. No two ways about it. He dosen't have the pace, stamina, aggression or desire to be a ball winner.

Gerrard has the necessary qualities, but he has much more to his game and would be wasted as a ball winner. He'd be better as a playmaker who can tackle.

Rubbish.

Alonso and Hamann were both "ball winners". There is more than one way to skin a cat Ant. The point is they could do other stuff aswell.

Alonso read the game far better than Mascherano could ever have dreamt of. He made more interceptions in a match and picked up more opposition clearances than any Liverpool player I've ever seen. In short, he was twice the player Mashcherano was made out to be by sections of our own.

The lad was a class player for us. To many people are obbsessed with "DM's" and "AMCR" and all that *****. Trying to over complicate the game does no-one any favours. Alonso was/is a central midfielder who can pass, tackle, intercept and generally play the game very well.

He had quality. Something we sadly lack at this present moment, saying he was a "deep lying play maker" doesn't make you sound clever, it makes you sound like you just listen to the media and repeat cliche rubbish you hear on television.

What are you on about? We all know there are midfielders. If you want a little more fine tuning, you talk about their preference, attack, defend, winger, whatever. Positions and roles are two different things. A midfielder might like to attack more than defend, hence you refer yo him as an attacking mid. It's universal and saved typing. So where's the problem in that? And why would you think it sounds clever?

Xabi Alonso is a playmaker. He plays in the DM position. Why start talking about all this AMR stuff? Gerrard can play more roles than Xabi.

Can't understand why you argue against things that are established.

Pig Catcher » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:10 pm wrote:Can still ping the ball around and put in some excellent tackles but he does spend a fair bit of time walking and watching play when his team mates could do with him making an angle for the pass or providing support in pressing. Also sinks into his own box too often and too early. The physical decline over the last few seasons has been sad to watch. Absolute legend but you get the feeling that the end is closing in quickly.

Thought SG was ok in pre season. Also played well for England. Isn't he allowed a shitty spell like everybody else. Not sure he's overly excited about the position he is playing these days. I certainly haven't written him off yet.

devaney » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:48 am wrote:

Pig Catcher » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:10 pm wrote:Can still ping the ball around and put in some excellent tackles but he does spend a fair bit of time walking and watching play when his team mates could do with him making an angle for the pass or providing support in pressing. Also sinks into his own box too often and too early. The physical decline over the last few seasons has been sad to watch. Absolute legend but you get the feeling that the end is closing in quickly.

Thought SG was ok in pre season. Also played well for England. Isn't he allowed a shitty spell like everybody else. Not sure he's overly excited about the position he is playing these days. I certainly haven't written him off yet.

I'm with you Devaney. It's alarming how quickly people are writing him off. He's our most loyal, passionate player. He's carried us for so long. He's still the captain of both club and country but im getting the impression people are pitying him.

devaney » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:48 am wrote:

Pig Catcher » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:10 pm wrote:Can still ping the ball around and put in some excellent tackles but he does spend a fair bit of time walking and watching play when his team mates could do with him making an angle for the pass or providing support in pressing. Also sinks into his own box too often and too early. The physical decline over the last few seasons has been sad to watch. Absolute legend but you get the feeling that the end is closing in quickly.

Thought SG was ok in pre season. Also played well for England. Isn't he allowed a shitty spell like everybody else. Not sure he's overly excited about the position he is playing these days. I certainly haven't written him off yet.

when a player is struggling to complete 90 minutes of a game played at premiership pace without spending the last 20 minutes walking around then that is more than going through a sh1t.ty spell mate. this issue has been building for a while, gerrards lack of athleticism was even costing us last season, hence hendo being introduced to the side to paper over the cracks opened up by gerrards mobility issues.
he can still do a job but atm we havent got players at the club good enough to carry him, not in a 4-3-3 anyway.
the obvious answer seems to be for rodgers to tell gerrard to give us everything he`s got for an hour and then bring him off but rodgers seems loathe to do that.
if he did do that though he`d be extending gerrards career, you`d probably get another 2 maybe even 3 seasons out of gerrard if he only had to play an hour but the way it`s going he`ll be finished by the end of the season. practically every liverpool fan is talking about how gerrard runs out of steam in the last 20.
i`ve been a critic of gerrards athleticism for a while but i thought he did well against united last wednesday but everyone i met was saying that was his worst `last 20` to date. once something gets into fans heads they criticize even when a player has a decent game.
rodgers needs to start helping gerrard out here by taking him off at the 60/70 minute mark.

Gerrard isn't going through a shitty spell he is just getting old and his stamina is waning because of countless injuries over the years. The ability is still there but the fitness to keep it going over 90 mins twice a week isn't - he needs managed better to extend his career

I agree with those that think SG should be playing 60-70mins. But his influence and effect on his team mates and the Kop for home games is too powerful to not be used. Really, we lack influence in the side. We once had influential players in all positions.

I think posters leaving this thread empty of eulogies after today's team effort speaks volumes about Gerrards current form ....or sadly
lack of it . Gorgeous ball for Sturridge mind ,but I think the saying 'One swallow does not a summer make' is rather apt for today's weak second
half display.... I think the scarcity of any tackling against Cattermole and co is a damning indictment on Gerrard's dwindling game.

The fact posters prefer to turn a blind eye rather than state the obvious is disconcerting to say the least .

Completely disagree RBG

Gerrard played well today, especially as he was the sole creative outlet from the middle, made some great passes and his link up play was neat and tidy all game, always made positive movement and supplied the front players well.

He's awful and should be dropped, Lucas could have played that pass for Suarez first goal (too Strurridge who done exceptionally well with the cross). Fact is, he didn't press inteligently once all game and can't do anything at all.

The lads awful.

On a serious note... funny how the only times we've won games this season is when Gerrard's either had a good game... or at least a good first half.

Stoke, Villa, Man Utd and Sunderland.

The two nightmares he's had, Southampton and Swansea, we've dropped points...

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:30 pm wrote:I think posters leaving this thread empty of eulogies after today's team effort speaks volumes about Gerrards current form ....or sadly
lack of it . Gorgeous ball for Sturridge mind ,but I think the saying 'One swallow does not a summer make' is rather apt for today's weak second
half display.... I think the scarcity of any tackling against Cattermole and co is a damning indictment on Gerrard's dwindling game.

The fact posters prefer to turn a blind eye rather than state the obvious is disconcerting to say the least .

Well for what it's worth, I agree that Gerrard isn't playing to capacity. A lack of form yes, but he's not suddenly going downhill as a footballer. A rest would help him clear his head, aswell as recharge. But inevitably Lucas picked up a yellow today and so I doubt he'll rest soon.

That said, even a tired, out of form Gerrard had a direct influence in goals today.

Lay your cards on the table. Who would you say are our star players? I'd say Suarez, Agger and of course, Gerrard. Couthino in time will be, I'm sure.