Kenny Departs

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Boxscarf » Tue May 08, 2012 1:16 am

Reg » Mon May 07, 2012 9:46 am wrote:UEFA regualtions these days do not allow unlimited funding, wake up guys.


Which is precisely why we need to get our signings right. There is less scope for error, this is what sickens me about last summer. The management need to treat every pound this club generates with the utmost respect and signing mediocre gash for high-end prices is not respecting this clubs funds. If it happens again, then the manager needs to pay with his job! Kenny needs to right the wrongs of last summer this summer. There can be no margin for such a waste of money again.
Boxscarf
 
Posts: 2059
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:52 pm
Location: United Kingdom.

Postby alwayslfc » Tue May 08, 2012 3:14 am

metalhead » Mon May 07, 2012 9:28 pm wrote:I think it's been a dissapointing campaign so far, our league form has been appalling and like Thommo said Kenny has let himself down with a lot of team selections this season, he still hasn't got a clue of his strongers XI and that tells you something. He chopped, changed and droped players to find a winning formula but with no avail. I believe this is a one off season, I don't think we will do badly the next one and if we but the right players in the summer then eventually we will do so much better. the major part of the problem this season isn't much about tactics, the football has been generally good and we have been so unlucky with so many games, so this problems stem with some of the players we have in the starting XI. Yes, the buck stops with the manager and I agree with that, if we had bought better last summer with the money we had then I can guarantee anyone we wouldn't be in 9th position today.

The reason I want to give Kenny another season because he deserves one, forget his legendary status and forget what he did for the club and city, as fans we should give managers time, even if you doubt him or you question his abilities to take the club forward, he still needs time to prove us all wrong, so that's why I want to give him another season to rectify his mistakes and get it right. If he doesn't, then fair enough, as much as we love him and respect him he should go and Kenny himself would know that he doesn't have what it takes to take the club forward. I don't think he would ever let any fans down, even if he doesn't do so well in his second stint, he is Kenny Dalglish FFS! all this talk about him ruining his reputation is rubbish, he is a class act man with a class act attitude and we as fans will always cherish him and remember him to be one of the greatest players in Liverpool history. I would love it if he turns things around and win us the biggest prize in English football.

Yikes.... 9th place... not good enough for Liverpool Football Club and I'm sure Kenny knows it


You've put a fair and impartial review of Kenny here. I like it and agree with most of what you said, but I don't agree with the fact that we should give a manager time, why didn't the majority of fans give Hodgson time? But when it is Kenny, regardless of the results, many would say, we're a Work In Progress, players need time to gel, the club is in a mess due to previous owners and Rafa's last season, Henderson, Spearing are still young and will come good in future blah blah blah. To me, all these are lame excuses to cover up Kenny's inability to manage Liverpool.

Football display wise, we're better. Last season games, many games we played like we were afraid of the ball and the opponents but we had better results. This season is the opposite. Kenny made shi.t signings in Adam, Downing, Henderson. I used to be critical of Carroll but after the FA cup display, the problem with Carroll is, he needs the team to play to his strength to get the goals like he did at NU and he's not getting it here. This is still not the mark of a class striker, he should play according to the team not other way round. So only with hindsight can we tell whether Adam, Downing, Spearing, Henderson and Carroll will come out good in future but right now, they are not good enough.

I am still of the opinion that if we can find a better manager, we should replace Kenny. We should only keep Kenny if no manager of high calibre wants to come and Kenny learnt his lesson and FSG willing to fund him to replace Adam, Henderson, Downing especially and get that much needed striker, creative midfielder, right winger, defensive midfielder if Lucas still not ready.

I can talk about Kenny's mistakes till the cows come home but one mistake he made was he didn't make the much needed signing of a better striker and a replacement for Lucas in the Jan. window. Reason for that could be he was either stubborn or FSG had no money to spend. But not signing anyone in January lead to the downfall for this year.
alwayslfc
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:24 am
Location: Malaysia

Postby Kharhaz » Tue May 08, 2012 3:25 am

Kenny did one thing that rafa and roy didnt do, he signed another striker.

If Kenny made any f*ck ups this year it was this:

He signed british players bigged up by the media.

He made an attempt with the referees to have a level playing field.

And the biggest one, for me at least, he has tried to defend the players who have let him down the most.

These for me are the biggest mistakes Kenny has made.
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
User avatar
Kharhaz
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 6380
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:18 am

Postby Boxscarf » Tue May 08, 2012 3:36 am

Kenny's made so many mistakes this season, it's unbelievable.

Signings. Formations, tactics, starting line ups. Handling the media.
Boxscarf
 
Posts: 2059
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:52 pm
Location: United Kingdom.

Postby D___C » Tue May 08, 2012 3:50 am

Have to agree with the issue concerning his handling of the media. Kenny has come across as a miserable git in interviews.. smarta$$ responses as opposed to playing the game. Its not just the handling of the Suarez affair that made us incredibly unpopular (not that i give a sh1t tbh), Kenny has been the public face of the club, and a right miserable narky one its been. He's been naive beyond belief.. and i put this down to over a decade outside the game. 15-20 years ago you could get away with it, but nowadays the media glare is constant (its a different game) and you have to deal with them as opposed to fob them off in a condescending manner. He's come across as a dinosaur who hasn't moved with the times.. understandable to an extent given how long hes been out.

This season, on and off the field, he couldn't have handled things worse...bar his continuous support of the fans which has been top class.
D___C
 
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:38 am

Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue May 08, 2012 7:07 am

I see Kenny is still the recipient of such much needed praise from our most respected forum members and regular match goers .
Some of the character assassinations that are being allowed in this thread would give the Daily Fail scribes a permanent hard on .

Disgraceful  :no
Image
User avatar
RED BEERGOGGLES
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 8297
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:03 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue May 08, 2012 7:18 am

metalhead » Mon May 07, 2012 9:28 pm wrote:I think it's been a dissapointing campaign so far, our league form has been appalling and like Thommo said Kenny has let himself down with a lot of team selections this season, he still hasn't got a clue of his strongers XI and that tells you something. He chopped, changed and droped players to find a winning formula but with no avail. I believe this is a one off season, I don't think we will do badly the next one and if we but the right players in the summer then eventually we will do so much better. the major part of the problem this season isn't much about tactics, the football has been generally good and we have been so unlucky with so many games, so this problems stem with some of the players we have in the starting XI. Yes, the buck stops with the manager and I agree with that, if we had bought better last summer with the money we had then I can guarantee anyone we wouldn't be in 9th position today.

The reason I want to give Kenny another season because he deserves one, forget his legendary status and forget what he did for the club and city, as fans we should give managers time, even if you doubt him or you question his abilities to take the club forward, he still needs time to prove us all wrong, so that's why I want to give him another season to rectify his mistakes and get it right. If he doesn't, then fair enough, as much as we love him and respect him he should go and Kenny himself would know that he doesn't have what it takes to take the club forward. I don't think he would ever let any fans down, even if he doesn't do so well in his second stint, he is Kenny Dalglish FFS! all this talk about him ruining his reputation is rubbish, he is a class act man with a class act attitude and we as fans will always cherish him and remember him to be one of the greatest players in Liverpool history. I would love it if he turns things around and win us the biggest prize in English football.

Yikes.... 9th place... not good enough for Liverpool Football Club and I'm sure Kenny knows it


Top post MH
Image
User avatar
RED BEERGOGGLES
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 8297
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:03 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby devaney » Tue May 08, 2012 8:13 am

What happens if we come 5th at the end of next season and no trophies? Do we regard that as improvement given where we are going to finish in the league this season? 

I have mixed feelings about Kenny's tenure as manager so far. He has had nearly 18 months in the job and whilst I think we are only a couple of decent midfield players away from success it is Kenny's tactics that worry me. Enrique has been seriously off his game for a while yet he is almost an automatic selection.Henderson has been constantly selected ahead of Kuyt all season and has been average at best most of the time. Downing has been an utter waste of space but again he is very much the first choice. Adam prior to being injured was poor but still got selected.Maxi hardly get's a look in.Raheem Sterling should have been given more opportunities.Carroll starts improving so Kenny drops him?

Kenny has been on a steep learning curve and I really hope that he has learned from the mistakes he has made. He has been a fantastic manager and player manager in the past and my dream is that he can bring back the glory days! But am I only dreaming?
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
devaney
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 5138
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:12 am
Location: Liverpool

Postby Thommo's perm » Tue May 08, 2012 9:04 am

devaney » Tue May 08, 2012 7:13 am wrote:What happens if we come 5th at the end of next season and no trophies? Do we regard that as improvement given where we are going to finish in the league this season? 

I have mixed feelings about Kenny's tenure as manager so far. He has had nearly 18 months in the job and whilst I think we are only a couple of decent midfield players away from success it is Kenny's tactics that worry me. Enrique has been seriously off his game for a while yet he is almost an automatic selection.Henderson has been constantly selected ahead of Kuyt all season and has been average at best most of the time. Downing has been an utter waste of space but again he is very much the first choice. Adam prior to being injured was poor but still got selected.Maxi hardly get's a look in.Raheem Sterling should have been given more opportunities.Carroll starts improving so Kenny drops him?

Kenny has been on a steep learning curve and I really hope that he has learned from the mistakes he has made. He has been a fantastic manager and player manager in the past and my dream is that he can bring back the glory days! But am I only dreaming?


Next season cant be any worse than this and I dont believe it will be allowed to.
KK has one more season to sort it, but this will be reviewed at christmas and if were not up to scratch he will be gone. Which is how it should be
User avatar
Thommo's perm
 
Posts: 6383
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:57 am
Location: liverpool

Postby neil » Tue May 08, 2012 9:19 am

.. and i put this down to over a decade outside the game. 15-20 years ago you could get away with it, but nowadays the media glare is constant (its a different game) and you have to deal with them as opposed to fob them off in a condescending manner. He's come across as a dinosaur who hasn't moved with the times.. understandable to an extent given how long hes been out.

This season, on and off the field, he couldn't have handled things worse.



Agreed. Kenny still even regards the domestic cups as somehow more important than finishing in a champions league position, jesus.
User avatar
neil
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:24 am

Postby Roger Red Hat » Tue May 08, 2012 9:43 am

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue May 08, 2012 6:07 am wrote:I see Kenny is still the recipient of such much needed praise from our most respected forum members and regular match goers .
Some of the character assassinations that are being allowed in this thread would give the Daily Fail scribes a permanent hard on .

Disgraceful  :no


It's absolutely shocking RBG. I can't comprehend the mentality mate at all and I'm shocked at what some of the forum members actually say out loud on here. D__C and that numpty Boxscarf and one or two others really make my blood boil and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. Kenny is human and is not perfect but pulling Kenny down for signing players who lets face it were on top of their games and we're touted as some of the best prospects this country had to offer at the time is ridiculus. I'd be prepared to say that Kenny stepped up to the job when no one else would touch it accept Hodgson and I would wager a bet that if we'd of continued with Hodgson we might not of even been in the Premier league this season. We were heading down. Kenny came in and balanced the ship, the owners rewarded him with a contract, he's made some mistakes and the going has been tough this season but he got us a cup win, in the final of the FA Cup and we are making steady progress. Sort the league form out, couple of top mark signings, widen the goal posts a bit  :laugh:  and away we go again next season. Lets hope for a better league form.

and for that reason Kenny is our best choice for manager and God bless him for that.
Sex, drugs and sausage rolls!
User avatar
Roger Red Hat
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 7669
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:59 am
Location: Yorkshire

Postby Benny The Noon » Tue May 08, 2012 10:04 am

D___C » Tue May 08, 2012 3:50 am wrote:Have to agree with the issue concerning his handling of the media. Kenny has come across as a miserable git in interviews.. smarta$$ responses as opposed to playing the game. Its not just the handling of the Suarez affair that made us incredibly unpopular (not that i give a sh1t tbh), Kenny has been the public face of the club, and a right miserable narky one its been. He's been naive beyond belief.. and i put this down to over a decade outside the game. 15-20 years ago you could get away with it, but nowadays the media glare is constant (its a different game) and you have to deal with them as opposed to fob them off in a condescending manner. He's come across as a dinosaur who hasn't moved with the times.. understandable to an extent given how long hes been out.

This season, on and off the field, he couldn't have handled things worse...bar his continuous support of the fans which has been top class.


It's a shame his top class continuous support of the fans hasn't been replicated by certain fans.
Benny The Noon
 

Postby friendlyguy33 » Tue May 08, 2012 10:11 am

Roger Red Hat » Tue May 08, 2012 8:43 am wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue May 08, 2012 6:07 am wrote:I see Kenny is still the recipient of such much needed praise from our most respected forum members and regular match goers .
Some of the character assassinations that are being allowed in this thread would give the Daily Fail scribes a permanent hard on .

Disgraceful  :no


It's absolutely shocking RBG. I can't comprehend the mentality mate at all and I'm shocked at what some of the forum members actually say out loud on here. D__C and that numpty Boxscarf and one or two others really make my blood boil and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. Kenny is human and is not perfect but pulling Kenny down for signing players who lets face it were on top of their games and we're touted as some of the best prospects this country had to offer at the time is ridiculus. I'd be prepared to say that Kenny stepped up to the job when no one else would touch it accept Hodgson and I would wager a bet that if we'd of continued with Hodgson we might not of even been in the Premier league this season. We were heading down. Kenny came in and balanced the ship, the owners rewarded him with a contract, he's made some mistakes and the going has been tough this season but he got us a cup win, in the final of the FA Cup and we are making steady progress. Sort the league form out, couple of top mark signings, widen the goal posts a bit  :laugh:  and away we go again next season. Lets hope for a better league form.

and for that reason Kenny is our best choice for manager and God bless him for that.


I understand the point you're making but I'm not sure that the criticism of Kenny or the players has been that bad. Also I'm not sure that people really thought back in August that the signings would be that great. Downing maybe yes but not Adam and Henderson the jury was out. I'm not sure that Enrique should be at the club next season he looks like an inferior footballer technically and in terms of decision making to Aurelio, when Aurelio is fit that is. I would have played Aurelio in the cup final quite honestly.

As for progress if we win the last two games (which looks unlikely) that's still three points fewer than at the end of 2010-2011. Kenny's points percentage in 2010-2011 for the last 18 games was 61% if the team reach 55 points that amounts t0 48%. I can't see the progress I'm afraid. For sure the cup performances have been great but I can't help but feel that round by round particularly in the FA Cup from the fifth round onwards the performances became worse more like the league form.

It's hard to see how it's going to change if we can't attract better quality in the summer. I'm not convinced that Sigurdsson, Dempsey and the other British based names mentioned will make much difference. I also think that the owners are in a similar conundrum to Rick Parry in 2004 with Houllier in that supposing we lose the first two games next season if we retain Kenny? I think his future is very much up in the air.
friendlyguy33
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:59 pm
Location: Birmingham

Postby Bretc » Tue May 08, 2012 10:35 am

Kenny is a legend, no doubt about that. He will forever be respected for what he has done for the club, regardless of whether he is the right man to bring us success or not. But that does not mean he is untouchable, that does not mean we can’t criticize him when he made mistakes. Liverpool will always be bigger than any player or personnel, including King Kenny and I believe he will be the 1st to admit that. If he has made a mistake, then he has made a mistake but what is more important to us fans is the progress of the club as a whole. Have we made progress off field? Yes, judging by the healthier financial outlook and marketing strategy. Have we made progress on the field? To be honest, that must be a resounding NO, whichever way you look at it. We played wonderful football last season when Kenny took over but what happened this season? Yes, some may blame it on the crossbar, goalpost, the refereeing decisions, the Suarez’s ban but at the end of the day, is the squad good enough for 4th spot? I would say, NO!

With last season’s squad, we were just 2-3 key players away from having a Champs League team. We could have bought a class striker, central midfielder and winger with the Torres’ money and FSG’s investments. Instead, we (Kenny and/or Comolli) chose to buy the following British “talents” at premium prices.

1) Andy Carroll’s 35M was a joke. With that kind of money, I can buy 2 class strikers with PROVEN records and not just potential. To be fair, Carroll’s performances have picked up coincidentally after the Newcastle debacle. He is still not a prolific striker yet but he is improving. However, a 35M striker he is not!

2) Downing’s 20M was another transfer failure. He was brought in for his pace and to provide inch-perfect crosses for Carroll. But what did we get in terms of assists? I think I can count it on 1 hand. To make it worse, I believe Mata was on sale as well for around the same price or thereabouts but Kenny and/or Comolli stubbornly insisted with their nationalistic spirit of Buy-British policy. Juan Mata was the star player of Valencia, immensely talented and most importantly does not hide. Disappointing is an understatement I would say.

3) Then we bought another “potential” for 16M in Jordan Henderson, the England U-21 captain. Great opta stats according to Comolli but sad to say, opta stats do not display a player’s courage, mental strength and guts! If there is such a statistical tool, I’m sure Henderson will be at the wrong end of the scale. Granted he is young but look at the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Phil Jones, even our own Spearing and Shelvey. I’m stunned to learn that Henderson is England U-21 captain! I dread to imagine the standard of the England national team 5 years down the road. Never have I seen a player who is so scared to try anything other than make a simple pass. Yes I know Spearing made mistakes and he is not as talented but I admire his guts for not giving up and not shirking responsibility. At least he tries but Henderson? Which is worse – Never make a mistake or Learn from a mistake? If you dun dare to make mistakes, then you will never ever have the chance to learn and you will never ever have the chance to improve. Everyone makes mistakes, so unless Henderson starts showing more guts and tries his best, he will never make it. Not just at Liverpool but in life.

4) Charlie Adam – I believe his nationality won Kenny over. I hope I’m wrong but that seems to be the case cos this guy is slow, I mean real slow not just in terms of physical speed but mental speed as well. I hate it when some people compare him with Alonso. I mean, c’mon! Alonso is a world-class player with an immense footballing brain that is capable of controlling the whole match! He knows when to make the short simple pass and when to make those Hollywood type pass. Most importantly, he keeps the whole team flowing and ticking. Adam? He is like the football version of the American football quarterback who stands around statically, look up for a while and IF nobody tackles him, make those Hollywood long pass which I would say is below even his own standard at Blackpool. We sold Meireles and loaned Aquilani for a Scottish quarterback? Pathetic! But luckily it was only what 8M?

The above signings were Kenny’s 1st and gravest mistake (Kenny admitted the players were his choice). We wasted almost 80M on so-called British “talents” and then trying to play pass-n-move football. These players either pass-n-don’t move or move-n-don’t pass. The pass-n-move players were either shipped out or on the bench – 2nd mistake Kenny made. The 3rd mistake Kenny made was playing Suarez as the main striker. Suarez was not made to be a main striker; he is more suited to play behind the main striker. And that brings me to Kenny’s 4th mistake – Failure to buy another striker in Jan when Carroll was not performing. And I’m not going to go into Kenny’s tactical errors and substitutions. Of cos there were other factors like Lucas’ injury which to me is a critical factor for our poor performance. Spearing tried his heart out but sad to say, he is and will never be good enough. Our midfield was sometimes overwhelmed without Lucas and I hope to see us sign a much better midfielder this summer to replace the British trash of last summer. Then there is the blame on hitting the crossbar, goalpost etc but I always believe in the saying that good teams make their own luck. We just do not have a good team now.

So my conclusion – Kenny’s performances should be criticized but he must be treated with respect. So for the good of Liverpool’s future, FSG should consider moving him up to an ambassador’s role and hire a capable, modern manager with a good eye for talent. Short term pain, long term gain.
Bretc
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:51 am

Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue May 08, 2012 10:41 am

Many posters have said in the past, that the League Cup is an opportunity for the team to blood the youngsters, and play the reserves. They also said the same thing concerning the Europa League. So now just because Liverpool have won the cup, it's suddenly a big deal? Why so? This competition was never taken seriously by many of the bigger clubs. Look no further than Arsenal's 6-3 trashing of us in the competition in 2007 when both teams played their reserves. Now I know why many fans of other clubs say that we Liverpool fans live in the past, because we do. We keep giving them 5 fingers to signify the success of a competition we're miles away from even qualifying for. We remind them how we won it 18 times but when was the last title? This season we're probably gonna finish 8th or 9th, below teams like Everton, and possibly Fulham. While other teams are focused on finishing in the top 4, or winning the title, some of you are satisfied with mid-table mediocrity and winning a cup which never had any appeal until this season. We need a new manager with a vision, not a caretaker who was out of the job for a decade. I don't see any reason to believe Kenny will perform better if given the chance next season. As far as I'm concerned, any manager who trades Aquilani, Meireles and Joe Cole for exorbitant purchases in Henderson, Adam and Downing needs their heads checked.
User avatar
maypaxvobiscum
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:02 am
Location: Singapore

PreviousNext

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests

  • Advertisement
ShopTill-e