Liverpool FC Forum

[Penguins]

Kenny is a legend, no doubt about that. He will forever be respected for what he has done for the club, regardless of whether he is the right man to bring us success or not. But that does not mean he is untouchable, that does not mean we can’t criticize him when he made mistakes. Liverpool will always be bigger than any player or personnel, including King Kenny and I believe he will be the 1st to admit that. If he has made a mistake, then he has made a mistake but what is more important to us fans is the progress of the club as a whole. Have we made progress off field? Yes, judging by the healthier financial outlook and marketing strategy. Have we made progress on the field? To be honest, that must be a resounding NO, whichever way you look at it. We played wonderful football last season when Kenny took over but what happened this season? Yes, some may blame it on the crossbar, goalpost, the refereeing decisions, the Suarez’s ban but at the end of the day, is the squad good enough for 4th spot? I would say, NO!

With last season’s squad, we were just 2-3 key players away from having a Champs League team. We could have bought a class striker, central midfielder and winger with the Torres’ money and FSG’s investments. Instead, we (Kenny and/or Comolli) chose to buy the following British “talents” at premium prices.

1) Andy Carroll’s 35M was a joke. With that kind of money, I can buy 2 class strikers with PROVEN records and not just potential. To be fair, Carroll’s performances have picked up coincidentally after the Newcastle debacle. He is still not a prolific striker yet but he is improving. However, a 35M striker he is not!

2) Downing’s 20M was another transfer failure. He was brought in for his pace and to provide inch-perfect crosses for Carroll. But what did we get in terms of assists? I think I can count it on 1 hand. To make it worse, I believe Mata was on sale as well for around the same price or thereabouts but Kenny and/or Comolli stubbornly insisted with their nationalistic spirit of Buy-British policy. Juan Mata was the star player of Valencia, immensely talented and most importantly does not hide. Disappointing is an understatement I would say.

3) Then we bought another “potential” for 16M in Jordan Henderson, the England U-21 captain. Great opta stats according to Comolli but sad to say, opta stats do not display a player’s courage, mental strength and guts! If there is such a statistical tool, I’m sure Henderson will be at the wrong end of the scale. Granted he is young but look at the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Phil Jones, even our own Spearing and Shelvey. I’m stunned to learn that Henderson is England U-21 captain! I dread to imagine the standard of the England national team 5 years down the road. Never have I seen a player who is so scared to try anything other than make a simple pass. Yes I know Spearing made mistakes and he is not as talented but I admire his guts for not giving up and not shirking responsibility. At least he tries but Henderson? Which is worse – Never make a mistake or Learn from a mistake? If you dun dare to make mistakes, then you will never ever have the chance to learn and you will never ever have the chance to improve. Everyone makes mistakes, so unless Henderson starts showing more guts and tries his best, he will never make it. Not just at Liverpool but in life.

4) Charlie Adam – I believe his nationality won Kenny over. I hope I’m wrong but that seems to be the case cos this guy is slow, I mean real slow not just in terms of physical speed but mental speed as well. I hate it when some people compare him with Alonso. I mean, c’mon! Alonso is a world-class player with an immense footballing brain that is capable of controlling the whole match! He knows when to make the short simple pass and when to make those Hollywood type pass. Most importantly, he keeps the whole team flowing and ticking. Adam? He is like the football version of the American football quarterback who stands around statically, look up for a while and IF nobody tackles him, make those Hollywood long pass which I would say is below even his own standard at Blackpool. We sold Meireles and loaned Aquilani for a Scottish quarterback? Pathetic! But luckily it was only what 8M?

The above signings were Kenny’s 1st and gravest mistake (Kenny admitted the players were his choice). We wasted almost 80M on so-called British “talents” and then trying to play pass-n-move football. These players either pass-n-don’t move or move-n-don’t pass. The pass-n-move players were either shipped out or on the bench – 2nd mistake Kenny made. The 3rd mistake Kenny made was playing Suarez as the main striker. Suarez was not made to be a main striker; he is more suited to play behind the main striker. And that brings me to Kenny’s 4th mistake – Failure to buy another striker in Jan when Carroll was not performing. And I’m not going to go into Kenny’s tactical errors and substitutions. Of cos there were other factors like Lucas’ injury which to me is a critical factor for our poor performance. Spearing tried his heart out but sad to say, he is and will never be good enough. Our midfield was sometimes overwhelmed without Lucas and I hope to see us sign a much better midfielder this summer to replace the British trash of last summer. Then there is the blame on hitting the crossbar, goalpost etc but I always believe in the saying that good teams make their own luck. We just do not have a good team now.

So my conclusion – Kenny’s performances should be criticized but he must be treated with respect. So for the good of Liverpool’s future, FSG should consider moving him up to an ambassador’s role and hire a capable, modern manager with a good eye for talent. Short term pain, long term gain.

Thank you!

Do you wish we wouldnt have won tonight?
Do you hope we get beat by Swansea?

Do you know where we are in the table?
15 pts of relegation and 15 pts of CL footie. Worst season for I don't know how many years...
But of course everything will be different next season ...

[D___C]

Tbh prior to kick off i thought todays game was meaningless... but quite possibly the most significant thing of the entire season happened that could have changed everything in terms of Kenny's future.. the performance of Carroll. All of a sudden he looks a player. He may have got the odd goal before but that didn't mask over an ordinary performance... today was completely different. He wasn't just good in brief patches or nicked a goal,.. he was quality throughout, fully deserved his motm. His display when he came off the bench in the Cup final has clearly given him a massive boost, the weight has been lifted off his shoulders and he is moving freely. His decision making is also better.

Its been such a dominant issue that for things to suddenly start looking brighter means theres no way Kenny can go. Its very small margins.

Two signings.. a goal poaching #9.. and a top top passer in midfield... and we could well have a very different season. Tonight confirmed it for me that there is no way we can let Kenny go. His work is unfinished.

[alwayslfc]

Kenny has done what he came here for, ie steadied the ship out of relegation zone of last season and now he has overstayed. I think FSG will either ask Kenny to resign or move him up to other club roles after this soon to be concluded season. Guys Wake Up!!! The Kenny of 2012 is not the Kenny of the 80s anymore, can you all see that? Look at our position in the table? Look at the team selections and tactics? Look at his mostly rubbish signings? All of these are the makings of a relegation fighting side and I fear that if he's to continue next season, we'll be fighting for 4th spot, yeah, 4th spot from bottom position. I'm not saying this definitely will happen but could be possible. I was labelled as your DOOM MERCHANT for criticising Kenny and possible relegation at the beginning of the season and unfortunately I've been proven to be right to a certain degree. Now there seems to be lots of these DOOM MERCHANTS all over Liverpool fans' forum everywhere now. I take no pride in being right because I love Liverpool FC too much and hope I was wrong.

One of the main problem with Kenny is, he's been out of management for far too long. He has lost all the connections to dig out the gem players from Europe, Africa and S.America. All he knew was overpriced local players within the British Isles like Downing, Henderson and Carroll are just not good enough. They are not worth their price tags. I know Carroll is improving but he's no where worth 35 million. The $$$$ we paid for those guys have been a laughing stock. Look at Newcastle, they managed to sign guys like Ba and Cisse who can bang in the goals for them and they could qualify for CL. We could have bought them two for 35 million isn't it? This makes me sick thinking about it. Oh Adam, he's not fitting into the Alonso role. Fortunately we didn't pay another 20 million for him.

Now back to why I think FSG will replace Kenny is, look at what they did with their B.R.Sox manager. They sacked him because of a recent poor run despite that manager winnning the World Series after 80+ years. This doesn't augur well for Kenny does it? They also sacked Comolli for the transfer blunders which Kenny said were all his decisions. Now if they sack Commolli for that, shouldn't the real guy behind those transfers Commolli made be relieved of his post as well if you think about it? If Hodgson were still in charge and we're getting these kind of results, I think majority of fans will give him death threats but because it's KK, many are masking the truth by giving all sorts of excuses.

Kenny is no longer part of Liverpool's future plans to challenge for CL and be title contenders folks. Please get over it. We need a foreign manager ( I can't think of any suitable British candidate) to take over. One who understands the modern game and has all the contacts for brights prospects round the world and someone who has a proven record of winning in the tough leagues. Someone like Hiddink, Rijkaard, Ancelotti, Capello, L.Blanc etc etc.

Having said all that, I still Love and Adore Kenny and he'll always be the King but the today's managerial position is too hot for him.

[Reg]

Well we didn't even contact the Valencia manager Dick Emery so either we didn't know he was available, didn't think he was good enough or Kenny's staying put.

[killerp]

Kenny is a legend, no doubt about that. He will forever be respected for what he has done for the club, regardless of whether he is the right man to bring us success or not. But that does not mean he is untouchable, that does not mean we can’t criticize him when he made mistakes. Liverpool will always be bigger than any player or personnel, including King Kenny and I believe he will be the 1st to admit that. If he has made a mistake, then he has made a mistake but what is more important to us fans is the progress of the club as a whole. Have we made progress off field? Yes, judging by the healthier financial outlook and marketing strategy. Have we made progress on the field? To be honest, that must be a resounding NO, whichever way you look at it. We played wonderful football last season when Kenny took over but what happened this season? Yes, some may blame it on the crossbar, goalpost, the refereeing decisions, the Suarez’s ban but at the end of the day, is the squad good enough for 4th spot? I would say, NO!

With last season’s squad, we were just 2-3 key players away from having a Champs League team. We could have bought a class striker, central midfielder and winger with the Torres’ money and FSG’s investments. Instead, we (Kenny and/or Comolli) chose to buy the following British “talents” at premium prices.

1) Andy Carroll’s 35M was a joke. With that kind of money, I can buy 2 class strikers with PROVEN records and not just potential. To be fair, Carroll’s performances have picked up coincidentally after the Newcastle debacle. He is still not a prolific striker yet but he is improving. However, a 35M striker he is not!

2) Downing’s 20M was another transfer failure. He was brought in for his pace and to provide inch-perfect crosses for Carroll. But what did we get in terms of assists? I think I can count it on 1 hand. To make it worse, I believe Mata was on sale as well for around the same price or thereabouts but Kenny and/or Comolli stubbornly insisted with their nationalistic spirit of Buy-British policy. Juan Mata was the star player of Valencia, immensely talented and most importantly does not hide. Disappointing is an understatement I would say.

3) Then we bought another “potential” for 16M in Jordan Henderson, the England U-21 captain. Great opta stats according to Comolli but sad to say, opta stats do not display a player’s courage, mental strength and guts! If there is such a statistical tool, I’m sure Henderson will be at the wrong end of the scale. Granted he is young but look at the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Phil Jones, even our own Spearing and Shelvey. I’m stunned to learn that Henderson is England U-21 captain! I dread to imagine the standard of the England national team 5 years down the road. Never have I seen a player who is so scared to try anything other than make a simple pass. Yes I know Spearing made mistakes and he is not as talented but I admire his guts for not giving up and not shirking responsibility. At least he tries but Henderson? Which is worse – Never make a mistake or Learn from a mistake? If you dun dare to make mistakes, then you will never ever have the chance to learn and you will never ever have the chance to improve. Everyone makes mistakes, so unless Henderson starts showing more guts and tries his best, he will never make it. Not just at Liverpool but in life.

4) Charlie Adam – I believe his nationality won Kenny over. I hope I’m wrong but that seems to be the case cos this guy is slow, I mean real slow not just in terms of physical speed but mental speed as well. I hate it when some people compare him with Alonso. I mean, c’mon! Alonso is a world-class player with an immense footballing brain that is capable of controlling the whole match! He knows when to make the short simple pass and when to make those Hollywood type pass. Most importantly, he keeps the whole team flowing and ticking. Adam? He is like the football version of the American football quarterback who stands around statically, look up for a while and IF nobody tackles him, make those Hollywood long pass which I would say is below even his own standard at Blackpool. We sold Meireles and loaned Aquilani for a Scottish quarterback? Pathetic! But luckily it was only what 8M?

The above signings were Kenny’s 1st and gravest mistake (Kenny admitted the players were his choice). We wasted almost 80M on so-called British “talents” and then trying to play pass-n-move football. These players either pass-n-don’t move or move-n-don’t pass. The pass-n-move players were either shipped out or on the bench – 2nd mistake Kenny made. The 3rd mistake Kenny made was playing Suarez as the main striker. Suarez was not made to be a main striker; he is more suited to play behind the main striker. And that brings me to Kenny’s 4th mistake – Failure to buy another striker in Jan when Carroll was not performing. And I’m not going to go into Kenny’s tactical errors and substitutions. Of cos there were other factors like Lucas’ injury which to me is a critical factor for our poor performance. Spearing tried his heart out but sad to say, he is and will never be good enough. Our midfield was sometimes overwhelmed without Lucas and I hope to see us sign a much better midfielder this summer to replace the British trash of last summer. Then there is the blame on hitting the crossbar, goalpost etc but I always believe in the saying that good teams make their own luck. We just do not have a good team now.

So my conclusion – Kenny’s performances should be criticized but he must be treated with respect. So for the good of Liverpool’s future, FSG should consider moving him up to an ambassador’s role and hire a capable, modern manager with a good eye for talent. Short term pain, long term gain.

You just saved me about 3hrs worth of posting! Agree with all pretty much word for word. You have to ask yourself are we in a better position after Kenny has been in charge for a full season with almost total control & financial backing from the owners? We are 80 million pounds less in the coffers without much in return for that sum. Each year we do not get into the CL it seems the road back gets longer!

[Basil]

Some people have got short memories or just don't know what's going on if they tthink our squad was better last season and our transfer kitty is down by £80M.

Since FSG took over we replaced players like Poulsen, Jovanovich and Konchesky with Adam/Henderson, Enrique and Downing, the total spending has been about £30M and we've considerably lowered our wage bill and reduced the age of the squad.

It looks like we will come one place lower in the league but we got to two cup finals, we've played at times although we've struggled to score. This is understandable, given the number of changes in the squad, the injuries we've had, a couple of our top players getting on a bit and the fact the the owners, manager and coaches are still finding their way a bit.

It'll take time to recover from the damage done by the previous owners but the new owners seem to be going about things in a sensible and sustainable way and we'll get there but it takes time.

[7_Kewell]

I try and give kenny the benefit of the doubt, i really do. But at times, he just gives the impression that he's losing the plot....

Take last night, for example, kenny was on the radio saying that this season has been a "huge success"...sigh

[Kenny Kan]

Tbh prior to kick off i thought todays game was meaningless... but quite possibly the most significant thing of the entire season happened that could have changed everything in terms of Kenny's future.. the performance of Carroll. All of a sudden he looks a player. He may have got the odd goal before but that didn't mask over an ordinary performance... today was completely different. He wasn't just good in brief patches or nicked a goal,.. he was quality throughout, fully deserved his motm. His display when he came off the bench in the Cup final has clearly given him a massive boost, the weight has been lifted off his shoulders and he is moving freely. His decision making is also better.

Its been such a dominant issue that for things to suddenly start looking brighter means theres no way Kenny can go. Its very small margins.

Two signings.. a goal poaching #9.. and a top top passer in midfield... and we could well have a very different season. Tonight confirmed it for me that there is no way we can let Kenny go. His work is unfinished.

Carroll turned the corner when we played Newcastle at St. James Park IMHO. I think those toonies left him in no doubt where his footballing career lies for the foreseeable, with US. He's been a beast since and I hope he can pick up from this next season.

I agree we still need a "poacher" for sure, we're bare up front and don't have much depth and a natural finisher would be the perfect signing for our attack.

[Boocity]

Kenny is a legend, no doubt about that. He will forever be respected for what he has done for the club, regardless of whether he is the right man to bring us success or not. But that does not mean he is untouchable, that does not mean we can’t criticize him when he made mistakes. Liverpool will always be bigger than any player or personnel, including King Kenny and I believe he will be the 1st to admit that. If he has made a mistake, then he has made a mistake but what is more important to us fans is the progress of the club as a whole. Have we made progress off field? Yes, judging by the healthier financial outlook and marketing strategy. Have we made progress on the field? To be honest, that must be a resounding NO, whichever way you look at it. We played wonderful football last season when Kenny took over but what happened this season? Yes, some may blame it on the crossbar, goalpost, the refereeing decisions, the Suarez’s ban but at the end of the day, is the squad good enough for 4th spot? I would say, NO!

With last season’s squad, we were just 2-3 key players away from having a Champs League team. We could have bought a class striker, central midfielder and winger with the Torres’ money and FSG’s investments. Instead, we (Kenny and/or Comolli) chose to buy the following British “talents” at premium prices.

1) Andy Carroll’s 35M was a joke. With that kind of money, I can buy 2 class strikers with PROVEN records and not just potential. To be fair, Carroll’s performances have picked up coincidentally after the Newcastle debacle. He is still not a prolific striker yet but he is improving. However, a 35M striker he is not!

2) Downing’s 20M was another transfer failure. He was brought in for his pace and to provide inch-perfect crosses for Carroll. But what did we get in terms of assists? I think I can count it on 1 hand. To make it worse, I believe Mata was on sale as well for around the same price or thereabouts but Kenny and/or Comolli stubbornly insisted with their nationalistic spirit of Buy-British policy. Juan Mata was the star player of Valencia, immensely talented and most importantly does not hide. Disappointing is an understatement I would say.

3) Then we bought another “potential” for 16M in Jordan Henderson, the England U-21 captain. Great opta stats according to Comolli but sad to say, opta stats do not display a player’s courage, mental strength and guts! If there is such a statistical tool, I’m sure Henderson will be at the wrong end of the scale. Granted he is young but look at the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Phil Jones, even our own Spearing and Shelvey. I’m stunned to learn that Henderson is England U-21 captain! I dread to imagine the standard of the England national team 5 years down the road. Never have I seen a player who is so scared to try anything other than make a simple pass. Yes I know Spearing made mistakes and he is not as talented but I admire his guts for not giving up and not shirking responsibility. At least he tries but Henderson? Which is worse – Never make a mistake or Learn from a mistake? If you dun dare to make mistakes, then you will never ever have the chance to learn and you will never ever have the chance to improve. Everyone makes mistakes, so unless Henderson starts showing more guts and tries his best, he will never make it. Not just at Liverpool but in life.

4) Charlie Adam – I believe his nationality won Kenny over. I hope I’m wrong but that seems to be the case cos this guy is slow, I mean real slow not just in terms of physical speed but mental speed as well. I hate it when some people compare him with Alonso. I mean, c’mon! Alonso is a world-class player with an immense footballing brain that is capable of controlling the whole match! He knows when to make the short simple pass and when to make those Hollywood type pass. Most importantly, he keeps the whole team flowing and ticking. Adam? He is like the football version of the American football quarterback who stands around statically, look up for a while and IF nobody tackles him, make those Hollywood long pass which I would say is below even his own standard at Blackpool. We sold Meireles and loaned Aquilani for a Scottish quarterback? Pathetic! But luckily it was only what 8M?

The above signings were Kenny’s 1st and gravest mistake (Kenny admitted the players were his choice). We wasted almost 80M on so-called British “talents” and then trying to play pass-n-move football. These players either pass-n-don’t move or move-n-don’t pass. The pass-n-move players were either shipped out or on the bench – 2nd mistake Kenny made. The 3rd mistake Kenny made was playing Suarez as the main striker. Suarez was not made to be a main striker; he is more suited to play behind the main striker. And that brings me to Kenny’s 4th mistake – Failure to buy another striker in Jan when Carroll was not performing. And I’m not going to go into Kenny’s tactical errors and substitutions. Of cos there were other factors like Lucas’ injury which to me is a critical factor for our poor performance. Spearing tried his heart out but sad to say, he is and will never be good enough. Our midfield was sometimes overwhelmed without Lucas and I hope to see us sign a much better midfielder this summer to replace the British trash of last summer. Then there is the blame on hitting the crossbar, goalpost etc but I always believe in the saying that good teams make their own luck. We just do not have a good team now.

So my conclusion – Kenny’s performances should be criticized but he must be treated with respect. So for the good of Liverpool’s future, FSG should consider moving him up to an ambassador’s role and hire a capable, modern manager with a good eye for talent. Short term pain, long term gain.

You just saved me about 3hrs worth of posting! Agree with all pretty much word for word. You have to ask yourself are we in a better position after Kenny has been in charge for a full season with almost total control & financial backing from the owners? We are 80 million pounds less in the coffers without much in return for that sum. Each year we do not get into the CL it seems the road back gets longer!

Have you forgotten that Comolli was the DoF, why are the signings all of a sudden just down to KD, I think you will find he was probably dismissed due to the poor performance of the signings which tells you he had a major decision in getting them.

[friendlyguy33]

I find it puzzling that everyone thinks Carroll is now showing his best form and will score goals next season yet apparently we need another goalscorer as well?

If we sign another goalscorer how many games is Carroll likely to play next season? Surely if we do need another striker it's as backup but if someone like De Jong comes in Carroll will not get much of a look in.

[Kenny Kan]

I find it puzzling that everyone thinks Carroll is now showing his best form and will score goals next season yet apparently we need another goalscorer as well?
   

Options & diversity.

[red till i die!!]

I find it puzzling that everyone thinks Carroll is now showing his best form and will score goals next season yet apparently we need another goalscorer as well?

If we sign another goalscorer how many games is Carroll likely to play next season? Surely if we do need another striker it's as backup but if someone like De Jong comes in Carroll will not get much of a look in.

i find it puzzling that people think we have enough in 2 strikers god forbid one of them got injured.
as the post above says its about options and diversity.
if it were up to me id have 4 strikers,the 2 we have along with another quality clinical finisher and a youth player to create competition and the fact that we have 4 competitions to play in next season.

[Thommo's perm]

Do you wish we wouldnt have won tonight?
Do you hope we get beat by Swansea?
 

penguins:
"Do you know where we are in the table?
15 pts of relegation and 15 pts of CL footie. Worst season for I don't know how many years...
But of course everything will be different next season ..."

So thats a yes to both questions then?
Thanks

[Thommo's perm]

Tbh prior to kick off i thought todays game was meaningless... but quite possibly the most significant thing of the entire season happened that could have changed everything in terms of Kenny's future.. the performance of Carroll. All of a sudden he looks a player. He may have got the odd goal before but that didn't mask over an ordinary performance... today was completely different. He wasn't just good in brief patches or nicked a goal,.. he was quality throughout, fully deserved his motm. His display when he came off the bench in the Cup final has clearly given him a massive boost, the weight has been lifted off his shoulders and he is moving freely. His decision making is also better.

Its been such a dominant issue that for things to suddenly start looking brighter means theres no way Kenny can go. Its very small margins.

Two signings.. a goal poaching #9.. and a top top passer in midfield... and we could well have a very different season. Tonight confirmed it for me that there is no way we can let Kenny go. His work is unfinished.

And the exorcism is complete!
Hallelujah!!
Carroll and KK must stay!!!
Praise be the Lord the devil is gone and she has truly seen the light!!!!

[JC_81]

Should Dalglish leave?!  Crazy talk.

He's had 18 months.  Not long enough.  We play better football now than under Hodgson and the late Benitez era.  He's had to deal with dragging us out of a potential relegation scrap last season and built almost an entirely new side this season.  He's got senior players like Carragher, Kuyt and Gerrard who are definitely past their best (Carra) and getting there (Kuyt and Gerrard) respectively while trying to blood youngsters and mould multiple new signings from last summer into a team.  But if he hadn't done that he'd be getting blamed for not acting quickly enough and not getting rid of the deadwood soon enough.  He's had a goalkeeper who's had a pretty poor season by his standards but yet has a team with a pretty good defensive record owing to the partnership of Agger and Skrtel that he has allowed to develop.  He's had our best defensive midfielder (Lucas) sidelined for half a season.  Some of his signings have taken time to settle (Carroll, Henderson and Downing), but in the cases of Carroll and Henderson their form is improving all the time and they are still young and developing their game.

My one real disappointment is that Aqulani was allowed to go on loan when we started the season with Gerrard injured.  Spearing has started too many games and to me looks well out of his depth.  We really could have done with Aquilani at times this season.

As for tactics, I have to laugh at some claims that 'football has moved on' and 'Kenny's tactics are poor and dated'.  Kenny's forgotten more about football and tactics than any of us will know.  Tactics haven't been the problem, an annoying habit of not finishing teams off and a team still short of real quality to be challenging at the top of the league are the problems.

Oh yeah, and he got us to two cup finals, winning one of them.

Onward next season, I'm pretty optimistic.